A4 Avant vs 3 Series touring / How would you spend you 5k

[NateS2]

I know I know this has probably been done to death but the time has come to get a new car and I'm stuck. Obviously I can't really go and test drive things at the moment, so I'm going mainly off what I like the look of and hopefully your opinions. (I will be test driving at a later date)


My options and thoughts so far are:

• B6 Avant Quattro - Cheap, like the look especially with votex kit, older interior and might be a bit numb to drive
• B8 Avant (maybe Quattro) - Not cheap, far more modern and should drive better, need to see in person to decide if I like I like I think
• E91/F30 BMW - Never owned a BMW so no idea where to start here. Do think they look quite nice and not too expensive

I've owned various VAG products over the years and that's it, hence the total cluelessness on the BMW's

I personally like estates, as you may have guessed, however please feel free to suggest anything. Only criteria is "interesting", vaguely good economy and nice to drive. Maintenance/reliability I'm not really fussed about as all of that would be done myself. It will also be 99% getting lowered and having some nice OEM option wheels so I guess 4k is a more realistic budget

[pb8g09]

F30/31 BMW for £4-5k?!

If you can find one of those let me know please!

[ahenners]

B8s and F30s at 4k are going to be pretty shoddy I'd imagine.

[Wagonwheel555]

The only F31 on AutoTrader below £5k has 182k miles on it so I don't think your budget will stretch to that model.

I know little about Audi's but I know a little about BMW's and the 2L 4 pot Petrol and Diesel engines before 2013/2014 when the B47/B48 variants came out were absolute garbage. Even the 3L N53 engine wasn't great, it had common issues with injectors which cost about £1200 for the parts alone and going for a higher mileage model, its far more likely to need them.

I realise not everybody has issues but having owned all three engines, N46, N53 and N47 I would avoid them like the plague. The N46 is the most reliable but its gutless being a 2L non turbo in a car weighing a fair amount.

The N47 2L diesel is fine in terms of power but it has the timing chain issues, I simply wouldn't risk this on a higher mileage car.

The N53 3L Petrol is a nice engine in terms of power delivery but its known for injector and coil pack issues. Granted, you might be lucky but if you are not and it starts throwing up codes for the injectors, you have to replace all six ideally and you are likely looking at £1500 so not a risk I would take on a £5k car.

Each to their own but personally I wouldn't buy any BMW 2L/3L from about 2006 when the M series engines stopped to about 2013/2014 when the latest B series engines started.

Edited by Wagonwheel555 on Wednesday 27th January 08:17

Edited by Wagonwheel555 on Wednesday 27th January 11:58

[ahenners]

Wagonwheel555 said:

The only F31 on AutoTrader below £5k has 182k miles on it so I don't think your budget will stretch to that model.

I know little about Audi's but I know a little about BMW's and the 2L 4 pot Petrol and Diesel engines before 2013/2014 when the B47/B48 variants came out were absolute garbage. Even the 3L N53 engine wasn't great, it had common issues with injectors which cost about £1200 for the parts alone and going for a higher mileage model, its far more likely to need them.

I realise not everybody has issues but having owned all three engines, N46, N53 and N47 I would avoid them like the plague. The N46 is the most reliable but its gutless being a 2L non turbo in a car weighing a fair amount.

The N47 2L diesel is fine in terms of power but it has the timing chain issues, I simply wouldn't risk this on a higher mileage car.

The N53 3L diesel is a nice engine in terms of power delivery but its known for injector and coil pack issues. Granted, you might be lucky but if you are not and it starts throwing up codes for the injectors, you have to replace all six ideally and you are likely looking at £1500 so not a risk I would take on a £5k car.

Each to their own but personally I wouldn't buy any BMW 2L/3L from about 2006 when the M series engines stopped to about 2013/2014 when the latest B series engines started.

Edited by Wagonwheel555 on Wednesday 27th January 08:17

The 3 litre diesel was M57 and then N57. N53 is the petrol 3.0L.

[NateS2]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, really appreciate it!

Yeah F30 is probably out of it, B8 non quattro you can get some fairly decent ones, B8 quattro maybe not so much.

No idea how a FWD B8 would drive compared to a quattro B6?

And thanks for the info on BMW, as I say I have no idea on that front so information like that is really useful. Is that possibly part of the reason E90's are so cheap compared to the Audi's? / Audi avant's maybe having a slightly "culty" following that keeps the price up more.

Any more info on what E90's are like would great!

[Challo]

You will get a good 6-cylinder E91 for 5k. There is a huge thread in the BMW section on the E91 from various owners.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Have a read through, and your get some good feedback on the pro / cons of the 325 or 330. Just make sure you avoid the 4 cylinder engines on the BMW.

[NateS2]

I’ll have a read! Are we saying then that the 4 cylinder petrol and diesel and pretty much universally naff?

[Challo]

NateS2 said:

I’ll have a read! Are we saying then that the 4 cylinder petrol and diesel and pretty much universally naff?

The 4-Cylinder petrol version is shocking in the E90 cars. Loads of reports of timing chain issues and generally being unreliable. Better to go for the 6-Cylinder versions.

Unsure on the diesels.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

I had an E91 330i MSport at the same time as a mate had a B8 3L TDI Quattro.

I honestly couldn't pick between them - both great cars. I want another E91 - one of the few cars I've sold I genuinely miss.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

FWIW, the 3L E91s seem to have been going up in price. I sold mine 6 years ago for just over £6k and given the reasonable (~60k) mileage it had, I would have to spend more than that these days to get into a similar car. A quick look on AT and the nearest'ish spec and mileage to my old one is over £7k!

[NateS2]

Yeah I’ve seen a couple for that price. Anyone get any opinion of the 4 cyl diesel on the BMW side?

[NateS2]

DaveyBoyWonder said:

I had an E91 330i MSport at the same time as a mate had a B8 3L TDI Quattro.

I honestly couldn't pick between them - both great cars. I want another E91 - one of the few cars I've sold I genuinely miss.

Personally I've always liked the look of Audi's, but the E91 is growing on me, and it does seem like quite good value for what you get. Especially if they are built the same as the Audi's
From what I've seen the BMW community also seem to do a lot more aftermarket/retrofit stuff with their car's compared to VAG. Like the NBT evo retrofit stuff is crazy compared to what people do to Audi. Not sure if that's that's due to the community or just because the way BMW designed things makes those retrofits possible

[ZX10R NIN]

If you're only looking to spend 4k I'd be looking at these:

2.0T Insignia Elite 220

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012317...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101037...

2.3 Mondeo Titanium 160

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101238...

2.5T Ghia 220

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007271...

9-3 Aero 210

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011266...

C230

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101037...

[88LG]

I picked up a E91 last week. 335i variant. Comfortable drive. I was looking between E61 and was also looking at the B8 Avant.

I never test drove an Audi, but the general feedback is that the Audi doesn’t offer the same driver engagement as the BMW.

Split tailgate on the E91 boot is great, so handy for just popping the odd shopping bag in the boot. Steering has a great feel to it. Cabin is quiet.

In the end, I just preferred rear wheel drive, the price was within my budget and it was a 6 cylinder petrol, where the majority of cars in my budget were diesels or 4 cylinder petrol.

Avoid diesel if you don’t do the miles... won’t be worth it.

I’ve only started a RC thread with some images of it. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

As mentioned, check out the E91 thread in the ‘BMW GENERAL’ section. And also have a look at www.e90post.com seems like an active community too!

Edited by 88LG on Friday 29th January 12:47

[d_a_n1979]

NateS2 said:

I know I know this has probably been done to death but the time has come to get a new car and I'm stuck. Obviously I can't really go and test drive things at the moment, so I'm going mainly off what I like the look of and hopefully your opinions. (I will be test driving at a later date)


My options and thoughts so far are:

• B6 Avant Quattro - Cheap, like the look especially with votex kit, older interior and might be a bit numb to drive
• B8 Avant (maybe Quattro) - Not cheap, far more modern and should drive better, need to see in person to decide if I like I like I think
• E91/F30 BMW - Never owned a BMW so no idea where to start here. Do think they look quite nice and not too expensive

I've owned various VAG products over the years and that's it, hence the total cluelessness on the BMW's

I personally like estates, as you may have guessed, however please feel free to suggest anything. Only criteria is "interesting", vaguely good economy and nice to drive. Maintenance/reliability I'm not really fussed about as all of that would be done myself. It will also be 99% getting lowered and having some nice OEM option wheels so I guess 4k is a more realistic budget

Re BMWs' buying one that's been looked after and maintained well is paramount

It's also down to your build too; I've never been an Audi fan, more so as they seem to be so small inside for me, whereas BMWs don't... But then again I'm not of an average build.

A good BMW E91 325i touring here; good spec too and looks overall clean and looked after:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-BMW-3-Series-3-0-3...

Leaves enough in budget for any essential maintenance and then mods on top etc; keeping the OEM alloys for winter tyres is always a good idea IMO

That's just an idea; for BMWs my money would be on a 325i or 330i; unless you can find a rare 335i that's within budget

[culpz]

ZX10R NIN said:

If you're only looking to spend 4k I'd be looking at these:
2.3 Mondeo Titanium 160

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101238...

Sorry for the thread-hijack, but i know you have a lot of experience with these Mondeo's. What's the 2.3 like? I know the 2.5T is the one to go for and the one I'd prefer but, at a certain budget and wanting automatic only, i see way more of the smaller engine'd N/A models. I do know they're supposed to be good to drive, but is it quite sluggish?

[Trackdayer]

B6/7 much more of a drivers car than a B8.

[ZX10R NIN]

culpz said:

Sorry for the thread-hijack, but i know you have a lot of experience with these Mondeo's. What's the 2.3 like? I know the 2.5T is the one to go for and the one I'd prefer but, at a certain budget and wanting automatic only, i see way more of the smaller engine'd N/A models. I do know they're supposed to be good to drive, but is it quite sluggish?

They go okay but they're N/A so you have to work them so in the end you'll be doing the same fuel as a 2.5T but you can get the 2.0T in auto form.

[NateS2]

Again thanks for all the input!!

@ZX10R NIN - Thanks for the list. Will go and have a look at some of those when we're allowed, something different.

@88LG Looks like a lovely car. And of course, going to test drive a variety and see what I think. Will be doing miles so will probably be a diesel if I'm being sensible.

@d_a_n1979 Great find find, looks really good. I don't think size would be an issue for me. In some ways I prefer smaller interiors. Definitely going to get test drives in both to see.

@Trackdayer This surprises me because I understand that B6 was okay, B7 was in someways better because it had better geometry (A6 uprights) and then B8 was a different world with new quattro and the moved engine. Until they fitted electric steering and it went naff again