Feedback - Disappointing Trend In N P & E
Discussion
I'm just logging this as a bit of feedback for any PH staff that place any value in the quality of the PH forum.
On N P &E a trend seems to have started for threads to become more an echo chamber than a place for discussion. Very Twitter like.
I have noticed it in the American politics threads.
We've had four years of the Brexit threads, with wildly differing opinions and thoughts being bandied about, and still so. It seems to be balanced and you can clearly see the point in engaging with people you agree with and those that you disagree with.
But on the American politics threads there seems to be automatic hostility, obtuse response, accusations of trolling (for asking questions), cases of strange stalking and insults such as Nazi apologist being thrown around, with various other direct insinuations relating to Nazism and other unsavoury things.
Why has this been allowed to happen? You can see the same faces on both threads active as the perpetrators of this behaviour.
Can I enquire that, if I report this behaviour in future, you will take it seriously and not choose to punish me for reporting it?
And can I ask what the PH and CarGurus view on the nature of those threads is? Do they find the nature of those threads to be acceptable?
Thank you.
On N P &E a trend seems to have started for threads to become more an echo chamber than a place for discussion. Very Twitter like.
I have noticed it in the American politics threads.
We've had four years of the Brexit threads, with wildly differing opinions and thoughts being bandied about, and still so. It seems to be balanced and you can clearly see the point in engaging with people you agree with and those that you disagree with.
But on the American politics threads there seems to be automatic hostility, obtuse response, accusations of trolling (for asking questions), cases of strange stalking and insults such as Nazi apologist being thrown around, with various other direct insinuations relating to Nazism and other unsavoury things.
Why has this been allowed to happen? You can see the same faces on both threads active as the perpetrators of this behaviour.
Can I enquire that, if I report this behaviour in future, you will take it seriously and not choose to punish me for reporting it?
And can I ask what the PH and CarGurus view on the nature of those threads is? Do they find the nature of those threads to be acceptable?
Thank you.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 27th January 10:33
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st February 19:45
It's a 'pile on' mentality supported by some friendly mods, I'm afraid. There are 3 or 4 posters on those threads who take exception to anything that doesn't agree with the groupthink.
It's not my message board and I'm not compelled to come here, so they can play their train set however they like. The echo chamber kids who are more interested in where Trump parks his helicopter can keep having their own fun.
Don't sweat it.
It's not my message board and I'm not compelled to come here, so they can play their train set however they like. The echo chamber kids who are more interested in where Trump parks his helicopter can keep having their own fun.
Don't sweat it.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It's a 'pile on' mentality supported by some friendly mods, I'm afraid. There are 3 or 4 posters on those threads who take exception to anything that doesn't agree with the groupthink.
It's not my message board and I'm not compelled to come here, so they can play their train set however they like. The echo chamber kids who are more interested in where Trump parks his helicopter can keep having their own fun.
Don't sweat it.
Seems a bit better today but certain ones have been quieter.It's not my message board and I'm not compelled to come here, so they can play their train set however they like. The echo chamber kids who are more interested in where Trump parks his helicopter can keep having their own fun.
Don't sweat it.
I saw what they did to you yesterday.
It's a weird game. I'm sure you recognise the pattern of tactics that were going on so I won't describe them!
If all threads go that way there'd be no point.
I think the same one was stalking you, as he was me days before, making off topic comments that made it clear he was looking at our profiles. Nothing more than "I'm watching you". For what?!!
It's not as if this is any more than a discussion forum anyway, as if anything anyone says here has any bearing on any of the events being discussed or has any positive impact for the people who are actually experiencing the situation over the water.
Still it's an open forum and one of the Europe centric threads has had really vocal opponents, who've likely been on opposite sides of the discussion for 4 years, wishing each other well today because their health is in a s
tty place right now. That's how it should be.And, yes, that nagging feeling that there is something going on with some of the mods. I got a seven day full forum ban for suggesting one of the posters on that thread might be trying to make up for his resentment on how Brexit went. No swearing, no calling him a loon, no abuse, just a snarky comment. Seems really off!
The forums are mostly reactively moderated – we have thousands of posts every day and unfortunately we're not able to moderate all of them.
We're reliant on members reporting content that breaches our rules of posting, otherwise we're unable to take action if we don't see it. We do look at every report that comes in for moderation and act accordingly.
We do spot some trends with certain posters and take action when necessary, but we're unable to see all of them. Therefore if you're reporting someone with a history that may not be obvious from one post, any supporting information would be very helpful. Thank you for the feedback
We're reliant on members reporting content that breaches our rules of posting, otherwise we're unable to take action if we don't see it. We do look at every report that comes in for moderation and act accordingly.
We do spot some trends with certain posters and take action when necessary, but we're unable to see all of them. Therefore if you're reporting someone with a history that may not be obvious from one post, any supporting information would be very helpful. Thank you for the feedback
I think people see "Echo Chambers" when their own particular view is in the minority.
I agree that the American Politics thread is very one-sided (the majority of PHers appear to think Trump is a dick). Equally the Brexit threads tend to have a fairly significant majority of pro-Brexit posters (and the polls that we used to have in relation to Brexit or UKIP showed that a significant number of posters were in favour of both).
In short there are echo chambers all over. It's hypocritical or lacking self-awareness to say "X is an echo chamber but Y is good balanced debate" when the only difference is that one disagrees with X and agrees with Y.
I agree that the American Politics thread is very one-sided (the majority of PHers appear to think Trump is a dick). Equally the Brexit threads tend to have a fairly significant majority of pro-Brexit posters (and the polls that we used to have in relation to Brexit or UKIP showed that a significant number of posters were in favour of both).
In short there are echo chambers all over. It's hypocritical or lacking self-awareness to say "X is an echo chamber but Y is good balanced debate" when the only difference is that one disagrees with X and agrees with Y.
Countdown said:
I think people see "Echo Chambers" when their own particular view is in the minority.
I sure you're right to an extent. There are times when the subject matter makes the 'common opinion' amongst most decent people an obvious one. Take a terrorist attack or a racist incident. The vast majority of the voices will share the same base opinion (then the differences in the detail begin!).In the political threads, it's more tribal than that. It gets to the point that only one opinion is allowed and dissent is ridiculed and the poster bullied away until they are silenced or change their mind.
Let's see how a post played out on the Trump thread this morning.
At 9.30 this morning there was the following post from a long established member, taking a view on events that did not match the group one. It wasn't impolite or an obvious attempt to 'game' the other contributors.
T6 vanman said:
Just for perspective...
Unprompted, the responses included;Centurin07 said:
Here we go.
Let's see how long this one lasts.
rolleyes
Let's see how long this one lasts.
rolleyes
gameface said:
rofl
fatbutt said:
Is it coffee break/ troll time? Yay.
Centurion07 said:
Of course you're allowed a differing POV. Even one as retarded as yours...
..Trump is a **** and so are his supporters. If the shoe fits...
..Trump is a **** and so are his supporters. If the shoe fits...
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Countdown said:
I think people see "Echo Chambers" when their own particular view is in the minority.
Let's see how a post played out on the Trump thread this morning.At 9.30 this morning there was the following post from a long established member, taking a view on events that did not match the group one. It wasn't impolite or an obvious attempt to 'game' the other contributors.
T6 vanman said:
Just for perspective...
The response from others was maybe somewhat curt, but given the number of trolls that have appeared over the years what did you honestly expect ? it was a deliberately provocative post with somewhat immature comments such as "but grr Trump" and "tangerine man bad") that did not discuss recent subjects from the thread, it wasn't intended to start discussion, it was intended to get a reaction, which it did.
Besides, the posters that replied, are simply responding with their thoughts - are you suggesting they should be prevented from doing so?
Frankly given the post history attitude of two of the complainants in this thread its rather ripe to be criticising moderation.
Thanks Ben.
Ronald's post above is a prime example of the issues that keep cropping up in those threads.
Out come the accusations of trolling and out come the insults.
It had returned to civility for a while last week though.
Countdown, it's not about complaining a thread is an echo chamber because it doesn't reflect my views.
How many times have I said I don't support Trump?
It's about the continual hostile, hyperbolic and obtuse misrepresentation of the views of posters who are not 100% with the narrative, through labelling them as Trump supporters, trolls, Nazi apologists, retards, ultras and to paint them as 'the enemy'......... It's an entirely toxic environment that is far worse than other NP&E threads.
ETA - there is a pattern to those two threads where a reasonable comment that doesn't fit the narrative is met by a pile on of irrelevant, abusive and obtuse responses. Any attempt by the poster to question these responses or reiterate their comment (because it appears from the responses that the wrong end of the stick has been grasped by the respondees) is met by accusations of trolling or demands that they just shut up. The trolling is from the people who are making the initial accusations of trolling!
Ronald's post above is a prime example of the issues that keep cropping up in those threads.
Out come the accusations of trolling and out come the insults.
It had returned to civility for a while last week though.
Countdown, it's not about complaining a thread is an echo chamber because it doesn't reflect my views.
How many times have I said I don't support Trump?
It's about the continual hostile, hyperbolic and obtuse misrepresentation of the views of posters who are not 100% with the narrative, through labelling them as Trump supporters, trolls, Nazi apologists, retards, ultras and to paint them as 'the enemy'......... It's an entirely toxic environment that is far worse than other NP&E threads.
ETA - there is a pattern to those two threads where a reasonable comment that doesn't fit the narrative is met by a pile on of irrelevant, abusive and obtuse responses. Any attempt by the poster to question these responses or reiterate their comment (because it appears from the responses that the wrong end of the stick has been grasped by the respondees) is met by accusations of trolling or demands that they just shut up. The trolling is from the people who are making the initial accusations of trolling!
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st February 15:30
Those weren't my exact words and that wasn't my opening comment on the thread at all, nor was that my example of a 'reasonable comment'.
And do you remember the context of the comment, why it was said?
Do you remember the examples of the weird behaviour I listed?
Do you remember where I said it would be unfair to name specific people as weird?
Do you remember the poster who was posting nothing more than references to my name and place of residence and also doing similar to another poster, posting comments that were about their 'knowledge' of that person and nothing to do with the subject of the thread? Do you think that is not a weird and unsavoury thing to do?
Do you remember the poster remaining me as 'mein Kampf' every time they quoted me? Is that a weird thing to do?
Do you remember those laughing at the death of a protester? Is that reasonable behaviour?
Do you remember the poster throwing around accusations like 'Nazi apologist'? Is that a rational comment?
That's all allright to you, Crafty?
Because you've said nothing about all those instances that back up my point that those particular threads are particularly toxic.
ETA, not wishing to perpetuate an argument, just to add back in some context that seems to have been forgotten.
And do you remember the context of the comment, why it was said?
Do you remember the examples of the weird behaviour I listed?
Do you remember where I said it would be unfair to name specific people as weird?
Do you remember the poster who was posting nothing more than references to my name and place of residence and also doing similar to another poster, posting comments that were about their 'knowledge' of that person and nothing to do with the subject of the thread? Do you think that is not a weird and unsavoury thing to do?
Do you remember the poster remaining me as 'mein Kampf' every time they quoted me? Is that a weird thing to do?
Do you remember those laughing at the death of a protester? Is that reasonable behaviour?
Do you remember the poster throwing around accusations like 'Nazi apologist'? Is that a rational comment?
That's all allright to you, Crafty?
Because you've said nothing about all those instances that back up my point that those particular threads are particularly toxic.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st February 19:29
ETA, not wishing to perpetuate an argument, just to add back in some context that seems to have been forgotten.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st February 19:45
I didn't condone anyone else's behavour. Just pointing out that you are criticising other posters (and moderation of posts) when your own aren't exactly helping. I can honestly say your posts hadn't really taken my notice until the one I reference, which I personally thought was offensive and unecessary. If your defence for posting it is "this other person was nasty to me so it was justified" does that make you any better than them ?
Ultimately, if you don't like a thread or people who post in it there is nothing complelling you to post.
And you never did name the posters who were "weirdos" or apologise for the comment.
I don't think you (or anyone else) has been unfairly treated from what I've read.
Maybe mods have done their thing before I've got there.
Either way, when I have seen you complain about or at other posters I can't say that your replies have been any better or worse.
Ultimately, if you don't like a thread or people who post in it there is nothing complelling you to post.
And you never did name the posters who were "weirdos" or apologise for the comment.
I don't think you (or anyone else) has been unfairly treated from what I've read.
Maybe mods have done their thing before I've got there.
Either way, when I have seen you complain about or at other posters I can't say that your replies have been any better or worse.
What compels someone to post is the subject matter. It does not mean the poster has to like the subject matter or agree with a particular narrative or like or dislike other posters.
What shouldn't be an obstacle to posting is a toxic environment that deters people from posting the reasonable things they believe or from questioning the other beliefs being put forwards; in a reasonable way.
We've had four years of very divided Brexit threads and the same people are still coming back for more because there's a much more civil discourse and, dare I say it, more balance to the moderation - which, on the U.S threads, is probably a result of the tendency for a certain group to cry 'troll' to the mods as part of some game to maintain a certain narrative.
And I'm not talking about my experience there. I've seen it so many times with it happening to countless other posters - specifically in the U.S themed threads, with certain posters reeling off a list of the posters they've got rid of from the threads, like it's some kind of battle.
What shouldn't be an obstacle to posting is a toxic environment that deters people from posting the reasonable things they believe or from questioning the other beliefs being put forwards; in a reasonable way.
We've had four years of very divided Brexit threads and the same people are still coming back for more because there's a much more civil discourse and, dare I say it, more balance to the moderation - which, on the U.S threads, is probably a result of the tendency for a certain group to cry 'troll' to the mods as part of some game to maintain a certain narrative.
And I'm not talking about my experience there. I've seen it so many times with it happening to countless other posters - specifically in the U.S themed threads, with certain posters reeling off a list of the posters they've got rid of from the threads, like it's some kind of battle.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Given that it's the same moderators (and in many cases the same posters) what makes you think that moderation on ONE group of threads is "better" than another?I'm not disputing that some of the comments are harsh and rude, but that's EXACTLY the same on the Brexit threads as it is on the US threads. To argue that one is somehow better moderated than the other shows your bias rather than te mods.
As the OP the venom was directed at,
Ironic as I think Trump was/is a terrible president and person but will credit the many successes and achievements within his tenure,
Similar to Boris ... Really can't we do better?? but the vaccine from development support, ordering, manufacturing support to rollout - only the core 'Grrr Boris' wont acknowledge as competently and successfully managed
I don't think I'll re-enter due to the 'Grrr Trump' core posters having no thought of another perspective,
No ... Well yes we see your comment but overall feel .....
Ironic as I think Trump was/is a terrible president and person but will credit the many successes and achievements within his tenure,
Similar to Boris ... Really can't we do better?? but the vaccine from development support, ordering, manufacturing support to rollout - only the core 'Grrr Boris' wont acknowledge as competently and successfully managed
I don't think I'll re-enter due to the 'Grrr Trump' core posters having no thought of another perspective,
No ... Well yes we see your comment but overall feel .....
T6 vanman said:
As the OP the venom was directed at,
Ironic as I think Trump was/is a terrible president and person but will credit the many successes and achievements within his tenure,
Similar to Boris ... Really can't we do better?? but the vaccine from development support, ordering, manufacturing support to rollout - only the core 'Grrr Boris' wont acknowledge as competently and successfully managed
I don't think I'll re-enter due to the 'Grrr Trump' core posters having no thought of another perspective,
No ... Well yes we see your comment but overall feel .....
It’s not worth sticking your head back in there because of the attack dogs. They just can’t seem to get past trump all bad and Biden is the second coming - there is no debate whatsoever.Ironic as I think Trump was/is a terrible president and person but will credit the many successes and achievements within his tenure,
Similar to Boris ... Really can't we do better?? but the vaccine from development support, ordering, manufacturing support to rollout - only the core 'Grrr Boris' wont acknowledge as competently and successfully managed
I don't think I'll re-enter due to the 'Grrr Trump' core posters having no thought of another perspective,
No ... Well yes we see your comment but overall feel .....
Gameface couldn’t resist posting a snide remark on here - which has been removed
purplepenguin said:
It’s not worth sticking your head back in there because of the attack dogs. They just can’t seem to get past trump all bad and Biden is the second coming - there is no debate whatsoever.
As someone whose only fairly recently come to NP&E, I don't think this is at all true. There's plenty of debate and loads of posters who want to get in earnest discussions, but similarly there's several members- coincidently some of the same ones who are complaining about "echo chambers" in this very thread- who seem to take umbrage to their assertions being challenged in amicable, conversational and/or evidence-based ways.The main reason for a perceived "lack of debate" is the unwillingness of these posters to actually engage in it.
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