Covid Conspiracy theories. Where is the logic?
Discussion
OK folks, I appreciate that I'm stepping in to potentially very turbulent waters here BUT..........
There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
TorqueDirty said:
OK folks, I appreciate that I'm stepping in to potentially very turbulent waters here BUT..........
There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
Ok, I’ll bite.There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
If you haven’t read anything about any topic related to any perceived misleading of intention (rather than conspiracy theory as those words are pejorative) then I don’t see how you can have already formed a definitive opinion.
Evil persists in the world in many forms and to imply that it is only the common man that perpetrates it in base acts of brutality or petty crime flies in the face of logic.
The greater the initial power you have, the greater acts of evil you can get away with.
Note: this isn’t to insinuate that all extremely powerful people have the same mindset.
From time immemorial, governments and people in power have been exposed for committing atrocities against their own populations for profit or power. Human nature has never changed and for all the bleating about fairness/inclusivity and tolerance, it would appear that today’s society is the most divisive that its ever been.
1974nc said:
Ok, I’ll bite.
If you haven’t read anything about any topic related to any perceived misleading of intention (rather than conspiracy theory as those words are pejorative) then I don’t see how you can have already formed a definitive opinion.
Evil persists in the world in many forms and to imply that it is only the common man that perpetrates it in base acts of brutality or petty crime flies in the face of logic.
The greater the initial power you have, the greater acts of evil you can get away with.
Note: this isn’t to insinuate that all extremely powerful people have the same mindset.
From time immemorial, governments and people in power have been exposed for committing atrocities against their own populations for profit or power. Human nature has never changed and for all the bleating about fairness/inclusivity and tolerance, it would appear that today’s society is the most divisive that its ever been.
Pretty much this, governments or rather those in government lie and cheat voters all the time always have an always will its not even malice, more you promise x then get into power and realise it can't be done (trump springs to mind he signed orders that courts overruled).If you haven’t read anything about any topic related to any perceived misleading of intention (rather than conspiracy theory as those words are pejorative) then I don’t see how you can have already formed a definitive opinion.
Evil persists in the world in many forms and to imply that it is only the common man that perpetrates it in base acts of brutality or petty crime flies in the face of logic.
The greater the initial power you have, the greater acts of evil you can get away with.
Note: this isn’t to insinuate that all extremely powerful people have the same mindset.
From time immemorial, governments and people in power have been exposed for committing atrocities against their own populations for profit or power. Human nature has never changed and for all the bleating about fairness/inclusivity and tolerance, it would appear that today’s society is the most divisive that its ever been.
Also if your fine dining for £10 a day an that is all on expenses too....its easy to see how you just want that to continue and so go along with who is in power and not what voters want. The Brexit farce showed this quite clearly with MPs suddenly not doing what voters or there party wanted.
Covid is the same, big contracts for your mates save the public be a hero etc. East out to help out its all part of the usal game
Just curious but:
1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
Nimby said:
Just curious but:
1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
You could use RFID and have the power supply outside of the device and activated externally. It would only work when someone went near a reader but with enough scanners you could work out where people are.1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
Nimby said:
Just curious but:
1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
I think your question gets to the root.1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
Obviously the answers to this question show that the Govt / Bill Gates / Soros can't fit us with trackers. BUT - there are gateway beliefs that underlie the preposterous end scenario.
I visualise it as a step - by step thing. person feels that MSM hates Trump (possibly true) so then they have to accept that the polling companies are suppressing voter intentions. so they have to believe that the all polling companies are a front for a left-wing cabal (rather than needing credibility to earn money) So, the Deep State swamp is even bigger than Trump can drain, so his own Attorney General is part of the Deep state, so, his pick of VP is part of it etc.
Tl;DR - to bolster a belief we look for a 'reason'; then that reason becomes a belief, which needs bolstering by another (bigger) theory until you end up in la-la land
TorqueDirty said:
OK folks, I appreciate that I'm stepping in to potentially very turbulent waters here BUT..........
There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
Did I ask you to write this on my behalf ? There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
Nimby said:
Just curious but:
1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
3) how many of those people that believe in this crap don't have a mobile phone?1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
1974nc said:
Ok, I’ll bite.
If you haven’t read anything about any topic related to any perceived misleading of intention (rather than conspiracy theory as those words are pejorative) then I don’t see how you can have already formed a definitive opinion.
Evil persists in the world in many forms and to imply that it is only the common man that perpetrates it in base acts of brutality or petty crime flies in the face of logic.
The greater the initial power you have, the greater acts of evil you can get away with.
Note: this isn’t to insinuate that all extremely powerful people have the same mindset.
From time immemorial, governments and people in power have been exposed for committing atrocities against their own populations for profit or power. Human nature has never changed and for all the bleating about fairness/inclusivity and tolerance, it would appear that today’s society is the most divisive that its ever been.
No definitive opinion formed - hence the post.If you haven’t read anything about any topic related to any perceived misleading of intention (rather than conspiracy theory as those words are pejorative) then I don’t see how you can have already formed a definitive opinion.
Evil persists in the world in many forms and to imply that it is only the common man that perpetrates it in base acts of brutality or petty crime flies in the face of logic.
The greater the initial power you have, the greater acts of evil you can get away with.
Note: this isn’t to insinuate that all extremely powerful people have the same mindset.
From time immemorial, governments and people in power have been exposed for committing atrocities against their own populations for profit or power. Human nature has never changed and for all the bleating about fairness/inclusivity and tolerance, it would appear that today’s society is the most divisive that its ever been.
So you are suggesting that people in power have opportunistically used the pandemic to further their agendas and enrich themselves. Perfectly plausible and I am sure that there a lots of people / groups that are benefiting greatly from the pandemic.
Has the danger / scale of Covid been deliberately exaggerated to serve the interests of those in power? On the one hand I see some faint logic in this if the short term rewards are huge, but really - is it worth completely tanking the economy, creating huge unemployment and reducing the national ability to be a competitive and functioning global force? Bearing in mind that those in power will need to deal with the fallout. Or perhaps the idea is that when the s
t hits the fan some other sods will be in power and they can deal with it?bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Nimby said:
Just curious but:
1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
3) how many of those people that believe in this crap don't have a mobile phone?1) What's the smallest possible "tracking device" we can make with current technology? Obviously it must have a power supply, GPS receiver and a reasonable range transmitter, with aerials appropriate to the signal wavelengths).
FWIW the tracker for our dog is about the size of a box of matches.
2) What's the internal diameter of a hypodermic needle?
Not many people truly can or do live off grid
1974nc said:
TorqueDirty said:
OK folks, I appreciate that I'm stepping in to potentially very turbulent waters here BUT..........
There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
Ok, I’ll bite.There appear to be many many conspiracy theories about Covid. I will be completely honest, I have never actually listened to / read the supposed proof or justification behind them. My default position is that people with conspiracy theories are generally a bit bonkers and even fairly tame conversations with them can quickly spiral quickly into something less tame and quite disturbing.
However, I am aware that by simply not listening I am applying my own bias and realise that I don't actually know the logic behind any of the supposedly more defensible theories.
I'm not talking about lizards, 5G and that sort of crap, but there do appear to be a large number of apparently intelligent people arguing that the whole Covid pandemic has somehow been engineered for a purpose.
The thing is, I am completely clueless as the WHAT the purpose might be.
What could anyone / any group get out of engineering or faking the pandemic?
To supress the proletariat? To destroy economies so that the already rich can dominate even more? To subdue enemy states - but something when wrong and it got out of hand? To deliberately reduce the global population?
It all just seems so far fetched BUT I feel like I should at least familiarise myself with these arguments rather than simply dismissing them out of hand on principle.
I'm genuinely interested to hear reasoned arguments. I am also frankly concerned about what I will hear - but I do find it interesting that so many people seem to think there is something nefarious going on. Is this just a reaction to something that we can't control? I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
I promise this is not a wind up - but I accept that I could well regret this post
If you haven’t read anything about any topic related to any perceived misleading of intention (rather than conspiracy theory as those words are pejorative) then I don’t see how you can have already formed a definitive opinion.
Evil persists in the world in many forms and to imply that it is only the common man that perpetrates it in base acts of brutality or petty crime flies in the face of logic.
The greater the initial power you have, the greater acts of evil you can get away with.
Note: this isn’t to insinuate that all extremely powerful people have the same mindset.
From time immemorial, governments and people in power have been exposed for committing atrocities against their own populations for profit or power. Human nature has never changed and for all the bleating about fairness/inclusivity and tolerance, it would appear that today’s society is the most divisive that its ever been.
TorqueDirty said:
I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
The psychology of conspiracy theorists is a fascinating subject. A lot of it stems from the realisation of one's intellectual limits. So whilst others draw from their insights and ability to absorb and properly assess information to arrive at a considered opinion, those that lack this capacity do not wish to be seen as such so latch onto the spurious and ridiculous but in a way that convinces them they are right. Because no-one likes to be proven wrong, when evidence is provided that they are wrong, they defend their position rather than concede (look up Cognitive Dissonance).This is why during Brexit, you had Wanye the Welder convinced that he knew more about Economic Governance than a PhD Economist. And why during Covid, you have Karen from Facebook convinced that it's all about subversive control but showing no interest in the etymology of viral infection.
So, in plain English, they're a little bit dim.
Mostly, this is all harmless but what's happening with Covid Conspiracists is that it's moving into the murky world of catastrophizing; the foretelling of problems far worse than they actually are or will ever be. This creates worry and anxiety amongst many which gives power to the conspiracists.
The simple question to ask the conspiracists is this: What is it that the world's population is or isn't doing that has mobilised every single government on earth to collectively suppress or control us?
StevieBee said:
The psychology of conspiracy theorists is a fascinating subject. A lot of it stems from the realisation of one's intellectual limits. So whilst others draw from their insights and ability to absorb and properly assess information to arrive at a considered opinion, those that lack this capacity do not wish to be seen as such so latch onto the spurious and ridiculous but in a way that convinces them they are right. Because no-one likes to be proven wrong, when evidence is provided that they are wrong, they defend their position rather than concede (look up Cognitive Dissonance).
This is why during Brexit, you had Wanye the Welder convinced that he knew more about Economic Governance than a PhD Economist. And why during Covid, you have Karen from Facebook convinced that it's all about subversive control but showing no interest in the etymology of viral infection.
So, in plain English, they're a little bit dim.
Mostly, this is all harmless but what's happening with Covid Conspiracists is that it's moving into the murky world of catastrophizing; the foretelling of problems far worse than they actually are or will ever be. This creates worry and anxiety amongst many which gives power to the conspiracists.
The simple question to ask the conspiracists is this: What is it that the world's population is or isn't doing that has mobilised every single government on earth to collectively suppress or control us?
So your rebuttal of the argument is ‘they are of low intellect‘ based on what?This is why during Brexit, you had Wanye the Welder convinced that he knew more about Economic Governance than a PhD Economist. And why during Covid, you have Karen from Facebook convinced that it's all about subversive control but showing no interest in the etymology of viral infection.
So, in plain English, they're a little bit dim.
Mostly, this is all harmless but what's happening with Covid Conspiracists is that it's moving into the murky world of catastrophizing; the foretelling of problems far worse than they actually are or will ever be. This creates worry and anxiety amongst many which gives power to the conspiracists.
The simple question to ask the conspiracists is this: What is it that the world's population is or isn't doing that has mobilised every single government on earth to collectively suppress or control us?
I could easily posit a similar opinion of posters who abbreviated their forename/surname to sound like an 80s pop star but that wouldn’t be based on fact either would it?
TorqueDirty said:
No definitive opinion formed - hence the post.
So you are suggesting that people in power have opportunistically used the pandemic to further their agendas and enrich themselves. Perfectly plausible and I am sure that there a lots of people / groups that are benefiting greatly from the pandemic.
Has the danger / scale of Covid been deliberately exaggerated to serve the interests of those in power? On the one hand I see some faint logic in this if the short term rewards are huge, but really - is it worth completely tanking the economy, creating huge unemployment and reducing the national ability to be a competitive and functioning global force? Bearing in mind that those in power will need to deal with the fallout. Or perhaps the idea is that when the st hits the fan some other sods will be in power and they can deal with it?
While i do not think it is a conspiracy, if i were in a position to make £50m by seeling crap ppe then I would and take the cash and leave. The economy tanking is no concern of mine once I am in my private villa somewhere warm set for life. It does not have to be any more complex than that.So you are suggesting that people in power have opportunistically used the pandemic to further their agendas and enrich themselves. Perfectly plausible and I am sure that there a lots of people / groups that are benefiting greatly from the pandemic.
Has the danger / scale of Covid been deliberately exaggerated to serve the interests of those in power? On the one hand I see some faint logic in this if the short term rewards are huge, but really - is it worth completely tanking the economy, creating huge unemployment and reducing the national ability to be a competitive and functioning global force? Bearing in mind that those in power will need to deal with the fallout. Or perhaps the idea is that when the s
t hits the fan some other sods will be in power and they can deal with it?Most conspiracy theories are founded on ignorance and misunderstanding; however I would not be surprised to learn that C-19's origin (pandemic, not virus) was in a lab and spread through poor practice and lack of diligence, or that the outbreak had started significantly earlier than China's official claim
Edited by 944 Man on Saturday 30th January 21:38
StevieBee said:
TorqueDirty said:
I did read a few psychology papers that suggested people tend to gravitate towards conspiracy theories when they can't control what they are experiencing.
The psychology of conspiracy theorists is a fascinating subject. A lot of it stems from the realisation of one's intellectual limits. So whilst others draw from their insights and ability to absorb and properly assess information to arrive at a considered opinion, those that lack this capacity do not wish to be seen as such so latch onto the spurious and ridiculous but in a way that convinces them they are right. Because no-one likes to be proven wrong, when evidence is provided that they are wrong, they defend their position rather than concede (look up Cognitive Dissonance).This is why during Brexit, you had Wanye the Welder convinced that he knew more about Economic Governance than a PhD Economist. And why during Covid, you have Karen from Facebook convinced that it's all about subversive control but showing no interest in the etymology of viral infection.
So, in plain English, they're a little bit dim.
Mostly, this is all harmless but what's happening with Covid Conspiracists is that it's moving into the murky world of catastrophizing; the foretelling of problems far worse than they actually are or will ever be. This creates worry and anxiety amongst many which gives power to the conspiracists.
The simple question to ask the conspiracists is this: What is it that the world's population is or isn't doing that has mobilised every single government on earth to collectively suppress or control us?
The idea that Covid was a random accident due to virus mutation and then mishandled globally in response to it (but who could have seen that coming. No one could have possibly written papers or made TED talks about that) is so far out of their understanding due to their biases that it won't stick.
It makes much more sense to them that it was a deliberate effort to subvert us, controlled by a dark cabal of mysterious "deep state"/illuminati/NWO (take your pick) that their world makes more sense. The idea that our sheer existence is a bunch of random/undirected events does not compute. SOMEONE has to be in control, right?
So you end up with the hilarious situation where the theorists in the UK think it was done so the UK rich would get richer. In the US it was so that they could get Trump to look bad and get him out of office (and that Covid would go away the day after the election). And I'm sure other parochial theories in other regions and countries. But all of this was coordinated in the background.
But have we seem some shady business? Yes, the PPE contracts have been huge examples of nepotism. But it's a conversation government that's in power with a huge mandate from the last election. What did you expect them to do? They're called the Tories for a reason.
I'm sure Occam's razor could be applied to this. But the conspiracist has always been immune to that particular argument.
Gecko1978 said:
TorqueDirty said:
No definitive opinion formed - hence the post.
So you are suggesting that people in power have opportunistically used the pandemic to further their agendas and enrich themselves. Perfectly plausible and I am sure that there a lots of people / groups that are benefiting greatly from the pandemic.
Has the danger / scale of Covid been deliberately exaggerated to serve the interests of those in power? On the one hand I see some faint logic in this if the short term rewards are huge, but really - is it worth completely tanking the economy, creating huge unemployment and reducing the national ability to be a competitive and functioning global force? Bearing in mind that those in power will need to deal with the fallout. Or perhaps the idea is that when the st hits the fan some other sods will be in power and they can deal with it?
While i do not think it is a conspiracy, if i were in a position to make £50m by seeling crap ppe then I would and take the cash and leave. The economy tanking is no concern of mine once I am in my private villa somewhere warm set for life. It does not have to be any more complex than that.So you are suggesting that people in power have opportunistically used the pandemic to further their agendas and enrich themselves. Perfectly plausible and I am sure that there a lots of people / groups that are benefiting greatly from the pandemic.
Has the danger / scale of Covid been deliberately exaggerated to serve the interests of those in power? On the one hand I see some faint logic in this if the short term rewards are huge, but really - is it worth completely tanking the economy, creating huge unemployment and reducing the national ability to be a competitive and functioning global force? Bearing in mind that those in power will need to deal with the fallout. Or perhaps the idea is that when the s
t hits the fan some other sods will be in power and they can deal with it?One is a simply a capitalist reaction to an opportunity, the other is a different ball game all together.
ETA not that I'm saying that you are suggesting this was coordinated and planned by whomever - simply that as far as I can tell, many other people are suggesting just that and I'm keen to understand how and why this would be done.
Edited by TorqueDirty on Saturday 30th January 13:56
GroundEffect said:
I wouldn't say that conspiracy theorists are stupid in the true sense. That they do not have cognitive abilities to assess data, it's that their egos or upbringings or life experiences blur them.
The idea that Covid was a random accident due to virus mutation and then mishandled globally in response to it (but who could have seen that coming. No one could have possibly written papers or made TED talks about that) is so far out of their understanding due to their biases that it won't stick.
It makes much more sense to them that it was a deliberate effort to subvert us, controlled by a dark cabal of mysterious "deep state"/illuminati/NWO (take your pick) that their world makes more sense. The idea that our sheer existence is a bunch of random/undirected events does not compute. SOMEONE has to be in control, right?
So you end up with the hilarious situation where the theorists in the UK think it was done so the UK rich would get richer. In the US it was so that they could get Trump to look bad and get him out of office (and that Covid would go away the day after the election). And I'm sure other parochial theories in other regions and countries. But all of this was coordinated in the background.
But have we seem some shady business? Yes, the PPE contracts have been huge examples of nepotism. But it's a conversation government that's in power with a huge mandate from the last election. What did you expect them to do? They're called the Tories for a reason.
I'm sure Occam's razor could be applied to this. But the conspiracist has always been immune to that particular argument.
I just looked up William of Occam in the hope that he had a huge beard, but sadly he is mostly depicted as clean shaven. The idea that Covid was a random accident due to virus mutation and then mishandled globally in response to it (but who could have seen that coming. No one could have possibly written papers or made TED talks about that) is so far out of their understanding due to their biases that it won't stick.
It makes much more sense to them that it was a deliberate effort to subvert us, controlled by a dark cabal of mysterious "deep state"/illuminati/NWO (take your pick) that their world makes more sense. The idea that our sheer existence is a bunch of random/undirected events does not compute. SOMEONE has to be in control, right?
So you end up with the hilarious situation where the theorists in the UK think it was done so the UK rich would get richer. In the US it was so that they could get Trump to look bad and get him out of office (and that Covid would go away the day after the election). And I'm sure other parochial theories in other regions and countries. But all of this was coordinated in the background.
But have we seem some shady business? Yes, the PPE contracts have been huge examples of nepotism. But it's a conversation government that's in power with a huge mandate from the last election. What did you expect them to do? They're called the Tories for a reason.
I'm sure Occam's razor could be applied to this. But the conspiracist has always been immune to that particular argument.
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