Work van and back issues
Discussion
Hi
I’ve been working for my current employers for over 3 years now, and for those 3 years I’ve had a Renault kangoo as my work van, I’m required to drive to each to the company’s branches throughout the uk and average around 50-70 thousand miles a year.
The last couple of years I’ve been experiencing issues with back pain/ sciatica which I think is down to the driving, I’ve always struggled with seat position in the van but I’ve never wanted to complain about it however I’m concerned about what long term effects I may be doing to my back.
Granted I’m sure there’s plenty of people who do much more mileage than me, however to me it’s a lot when your uncomfortable.
The van is currently in a dealership having some work done, and I’ve been given a Ford Fiesta hire car to use in the meantime ( no vans were available). Just done a 600 mile round trip today and it was night and day difference, I only wish I could get away with using a car full time however to fully fulfill my role I need a van.
My question is, how do I approach this?, yes I know I will need to speak to them, however everyone gets the same vans although I’m the only one who covers the sort of mileage, I estimate I do 4/5 times more than the others.
Are all the small vans pretty much the same in terms of driver comfort?
I’ve been working for my current employers for over 3 years now, and for those 3 years I’ve had a Renault kangoo as my work van, I’m required to drive to each to the company’s branches throughout the uk and average around 50-70 thousand miles a year.
The last couple of years I’ve been experiencing issues with back pain/ sciatica which I think is down to the driving, I’ve always struggled with seat position in the van but I’ve never wanted to complain about it however I’m concerned about what long term effects I may be doing to my back.
Granted I’m sure there’s plenty of people who do much more mileage than me, however to me it’s a lot when your uncomfortable.
The van is currently in a dealership having some work done, and I’ve been given a Ford Fiesta hire car to use in the meantime ( no vans were available). Just done a 600 mile round trip today and it was night and day difference, I only wish I could get away with using a car full time however to fully fulfill my role I need a van.
My question is, how do I approach this?, yes I know I will need to speak to them, however everyone gets the same vans although I’m the only one who covers the sort of mileage, I estimate I do 4/5 times more than the others.
Are all the small vans pretty much the same in terms of driver comfort?
Edited by usn90 on Monday 1st February 20:37
Edited by usn90 on Monday 1st February 20:37
Edited by usn90 on Monday 1st February 20:37
I suppose the HASAW act should come into play here.
General duties of employers to their employees.
(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
(2)Without prejudice to the generality of an employer’s duty under the preceding subsection, the matters to which that duty extends include in particular—
(a)the provision and maintenance of plant and systems of work that are, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risks to health;
Bold is the important bit, it has to be reasonable. Just a quick point - you aren't keeping your wallet in your back pocket?
SD.
General duties of employers to their employees.
(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
(2)Without prejudice to the generality of an employer’s duty under the preceding subsection, the matters to which that duty extends include in particular—
(a)the provision and maintenance of plant and systems of work that are, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risks to health;
Bold is the important bit, it has to be reasonable. Just a quick point - you aren't keeping your wallet in your back pocket?
SD.
shed driver said:
I suppose the HASAW act should come into play here.
General duties of employers to their employees.
(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
(2)Without prejudice to the generality of an employer’s duty under the preceding subsection, the matters to which that duty extends include in particular—
(a)the provision and maintenance of plant and systems of work that are, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risks to health;
Bold is the important bit, it has to be reasonable. Just a quick point - you aren't keeping your wallet in your back pocket?
SD.
No wallet in the pocket!General duties of employers to their employees.
(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
(2)Without prejudice to the generality of an employer’s duty under the preceding subsection, the matters to which that duty extends include in particular—
(a)the provision and maintenance of plant and systems of work that are, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risks to health;
Bold is the important bit, it has to be reasonable. Just a quick point - you aren't keeping your wallet in your back pocket?
SD.
I’ve tried the bead seat covers, and those mesh back supports and nothing seems to help, I’m 6 foot 2 and need the seat far back which reduces the amount I can recline the seat, From what I’ve heard the lumbar support in the kangoo is terrible which I can certainly vouch for, however It may be the same in the other comparable vans..
I’ve had the same issue, offset pedals in my Astra gave me back pain, paid for a letter from the Gp saying it was causing a issue
Company let me pick another car from the pool no problems
We all get the same car/van unless you’ve got a health issue then you get something different, it’s common, my friend works for a company where they all have meganes, except one guy who has a Leon due to needing a auto
Company let me pick another car from the pool no problems
We all get the same car/van unless you’ve got a health issue then you get something different, it’s common, my friend works for a company where they all have meganes, except one guy who has a Leon due to needing a auto
I don’t drive a work van on a daily basis but I do drive them now and again for maybe half an hour if I’m asked to take somebody to the station etc
We have the Merc Sprinter, Vito and Citan. I’m 6.4’ and the Vito is horrendous. The seat doesn’t go back at all, there’s literally no movement whatsoever. I would raise your concerns with your employer, back pain is very serious. My Dad just had a five hour operation due to back problems and I’ve had issues in the past. Don’t ignore this
Employers have a “duty of care” to their employees. In the offices at work we have two ppl who had a special desk and chair bought for them due to back problems
Speak to your line manager first and explain the problems the seating position etc is giving you. If you don’t get anywhere then you contact the next person in the chain an so on
HTH
We have the Merc Sprinter, Vito and Citan. I’m 6.4’ and the Vito is horrendous. The seat doesn’t go back at all, there’s literally no movement whatsoever. I would raise your concerns with your employer, back pain is very serious. My Dad just had a five hour operation due to back problems and I’ve had issues in the past. Don’t ignore this
Employers have a “duty of care” to their employees. In the offices at work we have two ppl who had a special desk and chair bought for them due to back problems
Speak to your line manager first and explain the problems the seating position etc is giving you. If you don’t get anywhere then you contact the next person in the chain an so on
HTH
I once had a similar issue and found a short term solution was just sitting on a cushion made a massive difference. After a while I was able to get rid of it and everything was fine. For lower back pain on long journeys I would roll up my coat and use that as a makeshift lumbar support and that worked quite well.
Neither of these are ideal solutions but worth trying if your employer drags their heals a bit sorting things out.
Neither of these are ideal solutions but worth trying if your employer drags their heals a bit sorting things out.
Spoke with the manager today, I basically told him I’ve had an issue with the van since I started ( 3 year ago) and that the last couple of years I’d developed issues ( which he knows about as with one of the sciatica episodes I was off for 2 weeks on statutory sick pay).
I told him I was starting to get concerned about causing myself long term issues and that realising with the hire car that this doesn’t need to be an issue has made me finally bring it to his attention.
I emailed him and immediately followed with a phone call, his response wasn’t exactly how I expected, and was along the lines of “ lots of people in the country are losing jobs and your asking for special treatment, and the fact he wants to keep costs down”
I remained polite and calm throughout the call except maybe this line?
“I’ve tried to persist for the last 3 years with it but I’m no longer ok putting myself in a position where I’m doing myself possible damage to my back just to keep costs down”
At this point he started to question what had happened to the van in order for it to be in need of repair, as though I had intentionally damaged it in order to be rid!,
The van is in very good condition considering I’ve put 195,000 miles since I was given it, interior spotless, no dings whatsoever, unlike the other employees van which are full of rips in the seats dents all over the place, it’s currently in for shock absorbers, timing belt/chain and to have the gearbox looked at as it is making a loud ticking kind of noise, which is the reason I asked to take it in!
I’m a little surprised if I honest, this is the first time I’ve asked for something, I keep my head down and do what’s asked of me, i also keep the Costs down myself where I’m able to, for instance we have 3 sites up Scotland, the guy who used to do my job would either spread this over 2 days and drive up and down from Manchester to Aberdeen twice, or stay over in a hotel, I do this in one very long day, save the company either a lot of diesel or the cost of a hotel, which I know will be pittance to them but shows the willingness from me.
I told him I was starting to get concerned about causing myself long term issues and that realising with the hire car that this doesn’t need to be an issue has made me finally bring it to his attention.
I emailed him and immediately followed with a phone call, his response wasn’t exactly how I expected, and was along the lines of “ lots of people in the country are losing jobs and your asking for special treatment, and the fact he wants to keep costs down”
I remained polite and calm throughout the call except maybe this line?
“I’ve tried to persist for the last 3 years with it but I’m no longer ok putting myself in a position where I’m doing myself possible damage to my back just to keep costs down”
At this point he started to question what had happened to the van in order for it to be in need of repair, as though I had intentionally damaged it in order to be rid!,
The van is in very good condition considering I’ve put 195,000 miles since I was given it, interior spotless, no dings whatsoever, unlike the other employees van which are full of rips in the seats dents all over the place, it’s currently in for shock absorbers, timing belt/chain and to have the gearbox looked at as it is making a loud ticking kind of noise, which is the reason I asked to take it in!
I’m a little surprised if I honest, this is the first time I’ve asked for something, I keep my head down and do what’s asked of me, i also keep the Costs down myself where I’m able to, for instance we have 3 sites up Scotland, the guy who used to do my job would either spread this over 2 days and drive up and down from Manchester to Aberdeen twice, or stay over in a hotel, I do this in one very long day, save the company either a lot of diesel or the cost of a hotel, which I know will be pittance to them but shows the willingness from me.
Edited by usn90 on Tuesday 2nd February 20:50
Edited by usn90 on Tuesday 2nd February 20:51
jurbie said:
I once had a similar issue and found a short term solution was just sitting on a cushion made a massive difference. After a while I was able to get rid of it and everything was fine. For lower back pain on long journeys I would roll up my coat and use that as a makeshift lumbar support and that worked quite well.
Neither of these are ideal solutions but worth trying if your employer drags their heals a bit sorting things out.
I’ve tried a few things, those lumbar supports which you attach to the Bottom of the seats, my dad gave me one of those old school bead covers to try aswell!, The only thing I’ve found which helps is a hot water bottle stuffed down for some lumbar support but this is generally short lived!Neither of these are ideal solutions but worth trying if your employer drags their heals a bit sorting things out.
InitialDave said:
What's their normal replacement schedule for vans? Or do they just properly run them into the ground?
None of the vans are on lease, nobody’s had a replacement since I’ve worked here although the next highest mileage after mine is around 50k. I can only assume they intend to run them into the ground It's a tricky one and I do feel for you, I have a cushion in mine for my back and only do low miles usually. I do think van seats are crap, but what can you do, fit an orthopaedic seat?!
Maybe it's time for a change of job, or if you really don't want that then would you pay for the seat re-stuffing to suit you or a new seat? How much is your health worth?
Maybe it's time for a change of job, or if you really don't want that then would you pay for the seat re-stuffing to suit you or a new seat? How much is your health worth?
Nickbrapp said:
Sounds like your boss is a prick who doesn’t care about occupational health
Go on the sick with back pain.
Never try and save your employer money or do them a favour, they will never do the same for you.
There is no company sick pay, which is why I was on ssp with one of the sciatica episodes.Go on the sick with back pain.
Never try and save your employer money or do them a favour, they will never do the same for you.
It’s certainly opened my eyes.
What do you do for work?
I’ve worked for companies run by the owners and it’s hard work, they don’t care about anything but their profit
At a national now, the ones I raised the hip pain issue with and they couldn’t do enough to make sure I was ok
Your manager sounds like he’s not good at being a manager
Don’t forget that unless you’ve opted out of the EU working time directive you shouldn’t be working more than 49 hours a week, and if you’re a mobile engineer etc without a fixed place of work travel DOES count as working time and must be taken into account, and paid.
I’ve worked for companies run by the owners and it’s hard work, they don’t care about anything but their profit
At a national now, the ones I raised the hip pain issue with and they couldn’t do enough to make sure I was ok
Your manager sounds like he’s not good at being a manager
Don’t forget that unless you’ve opted out of the EU working time directive you shouldn’t be working more than 49 hours a week, and if you’re a mobile engineer etc without a fixed place of work travel DOES count as working time and must be taken into account, and paid.
Edited by Nickbrapp on Tuesday 2nd February 21:24
Honestly, it sounds like your boss is taking advantage of your good nature. You are doing a serious amount of miles in a van which is clearly causing your back issues. As for Manchester-Aberdeen return in a day to do the company a favour - that sounds like the thick end of 13 hours once you’ve loaded and unloaded etc, and presumably long days before and after as well. Do you have an HR department you can speak to? Looks like major health and safety issues here, and a prick as a manager.
usn90 said:
Spoke with the manager today, I basically told him I’ve had an issue with the van since I started ( 3 year ago) and that the last couple of years I’d developed issues ( which he knows about as with one of the sciatica episodes I was off for 2 weeks on statutory sick pay).
I told him I was starting to get concerned about causing myself long term issues and that realising with the hire car that this doesn’t need to be an issue has made me finally bring it to his attention.
I emailed him and immediately followed with a phone call, his response wasn’t exactly how I expected, and was along the lines of “ lots of people in the country are losing jobs and your asking for special treatment, and the fact he wants to keep costs down”
I remained polite and calm throughout the call except maybe this line?
“I’ve tried to persist for the last 3 years with it but I’m no longer ok putting myself in a position where I’m doing myself possible damage to my back just to keep costs down”
At this point he started to question what had happened to the van in order for it to be in need of repair, as though I had intentionally damaged it in order to be rid!,
The van is in very good condition considering I’ve put 195,000 miles since I was given it, interior spotless, no dings whatsoever, unlike the other employees van which are full of rips in the seats dents all over the place, it’s currently in for shock absorbers, timing belt/chain and to have the gearbox looked at as it is making a loud ticking kind of noise, which is the reason I asked to take it in!
I’m a little surprised if I honest, this is the first time I’ve asked for something, I keep my head down and do what’s asked of me, i also keep the Costs down myself where I’m able to, for instance we have 3 sites up Scotland, the guy who used to do my job would either spread this over 2 days and drive up and down from Manchester to Aberdeen twice, or stay over in a hotel, I do this in one very long day, save the company either a lot of diesel or the cost of a hotel, which I know will be pittance to them but shows the willingness from me.
I think you know the answer. Limiting time spent behind the wheel in a day will help a lot and if its the only tool available.... Make it a leisurely trip. Take stops, have a walk. Seriously don't martyr yourself, your employers made it obvious they'll be no thanks.I told him I was starting to get concerned about causing myself long term issues and that realising with the hire car that this doesn’t need to be an issue has made me finally bring it to his attention.
I emailed him and immediately followed with a phone call, his response wasn’t exactly how I expected, and was along the lines of “ lots of people in the country are losing jobs and your asking for special treatment, and the fact he wants to keep costs down”
I remained polite and calm throughout the call except maybe this line?
“I’ve tried to persist for the last 3 years with it but I’m no longer ok putting myself in a position where I’m doing myself possible damage to my back just to keep costs down”
At this point he started to question what had happened to the van in order for it to be in need of repair, as though I had intentionally damaged it in order to be rid!,
The van is in very good condition considering I’ve put 195,000 miles since I was given it, interior spotless, no dings whatsoever, unlike the other employees van which are full of rips in the seats dents all over the place, it’s currently in for shock absorbers, timing belt/chain and to have the gearbox looked at as it is making a loud ticking kind of noise, which is the reason I asked to take it in!
I’m a little surprised if I honest, this is the first time I’ve asked for something, I keep my head down and do what’s asked of me, i also keep the Costs down myself where I’m able to, for instance we have 3 sites up Scotland, the guy who used to do my job would either spread this over 2 days and drive up and down from Manchester to Aberdeen twice, or stay over in a hotel, I do this in one very long day, save the company either a lot of diesel or the cost of a hotel, which I know will be pittance to them but shows the willingness from me.
Edited by usn90 on Tuesday 2nd February 20:50
Edited by usn90 on Tuesday 2nd February 20:51
Trouble with vans is most firms want cheap, and small vans especially cheap. The vx combos we had on the leccy board were dire. The LDVs had the sound insulation deleted. Made me laugh when in the office they'd have all the fancy super $$$ ergonomic chairs the H&S guy advised but us blokes bustin our backs on the the tools.... hey wos cheap.
Why I work for myself and have a van with automatic transmission, AC, heated comfort seats etc etc now lol.
Extreme I know but I was getting pain in my back in an E46 when I was doing big miles.. kind of unrelated but it really helped position me much better, stoped me slumping and I'm near sure helped my posture.. I fitted a coubrea fixed back bucket seat. It was a revelation. Including the seat, rails and fitting it was 300 quid.
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