Best Boiler to Get ?
Discussion
Our boiler is a 30 ish year old Valliant and its conked out this morning, cant get it to start so going to get a new one.
What brands should we be looking at, its a traditional boiler with a hot water cylinder and cold water tank, four bed detached built 1937.
Been told a Combi is a bad idea for a bigger house but cant remember why.
Is it basically go for a Worcester Bosch, dont mind paying more just want something we can fit and largely forget.#
Possibly a new hot water cylinder as well, as the old one has a pathetic water jacket hanging off it and guess isnt very efficient.
Cost wise, am thinking will be 2 to 3 grand, should that cover it ?
What brands should we be looking at, its a traditional boiler with a hot water cylinder and cold water tank, four bed detached built 1937.
Been told a Combi is a bad idea for a bigger house but cant remember why.
Is it basically go for a Worcester Bosch, dont mind paying more just want something we can fit and largely forget.#
Possibly a new hot water cylinder as well, as the old one has a pathetic water jacket hanging off it and guess isnt very efficient.
Cost wise, am thinking will be 2 to 3 grand, should that cover it ?
We have a 25 year old Vaillant and every year the service guy says "they don't build them like this any more" and "whatever you replace it with won't last 25 years". I keep willing it to hang on a bit longer because (as I understand it) the new one will have to be a condensing type and sorting the drain out will be tricky for us.
Good luck!
Good luck!
We had a 25 year old boiler in the last house and plumber said the same...just didn’t go wrong.
New house has a Worcester Bosch Greenstar Style system boiler and I am impressed with it- it is only 12 months old and part of high pressure heating/ water system which is a revelation compared to our old house.
New house has a Worcester Bosch Greenstar Style system boiler and I am impressed with it- it is only 12 months old and part of high pressure heating/ water system which is a revelation compared to our old house.
J4CKO said:
Our boiler is a 30 ish year old Valliant and its conked out this morning, cant get it to start so going to get a new one.
What brands should we be looking at, its a traditional boiler with a hot water cylinder and cold water tank, four bed detached built 1937.
Been told a Combi is a bad idea for a bigger house but cant remember why.
Is it basically go for a Worcester Bosch, dont mind paying more just want something we can fit and largely forget.#
Possibly a new hot water cylinder as well, as the old one has a pathetic water jacket hanging off it and guess isnt very efficient.
Cost wise, am thinking will be 2 to 3 grand, should that cover it ?
They all break down sooner or later it seems. Things like seem to PCB's go because of the heat inside the box etcWhat brands should we be looking at, its a traditional boiler with a hot water cylinder and cold water tank, four bed detached built 1937.
Been told a Combi is a bad idea for a bigger house but cant remember why.
Is it basically go for a Worcester Bosch, dont mind paying more just want something we can fit and largely forget.#
Possibly a new hot water cylinder as well, as the old one has a pathetic water jacket hanging off it and guess isnt very efficient.
Cost wise, am thinking will be 2 to 3 grand, should that cover it ?
Might be yours can be fixed for not too much, sometimes its something pretty minor.
If you do replace it you will almost certainly need to get the heating system power flushed which will add £6-800 to the bill at least. Its necessary because the pipework inside new boilers is very much finer than it used to be (to get the efficiency up) & therefore it can clog more easily. If you don't have one they will probably want to fit a magnetic filter too. The boiler itself will be £1K plus, after that it depends what else they need to do. I always reckon buy one size bigger than needed (at least), it doesn't cost that much more to go bigger.
Combis have their place, and their issues: you need good water pressure, the supply of hot water is limited to what the boiler can provide, any other tap/device being used in the house will reduce the pressure, the heating system will be running in a pressurised state etc .
On the other hand, you never run out of hot water!
If you are going to replace the HW tank as well (and you have space) then you'd probably start looking at things like Megaflows as well - much more money though.
We just got rid of a 24 year old Ideal system boiler and replaced it with a new Worcester Bosch Greenstar compact.
Happy we did - the old one was on its way out (not failing, but made a racket and was starting to struggle with keeping up with our usage). The tank was also completely bogging inside and too small for our house (it was a 133, we upgraded to 180).
The house now feels warmer (rads straight to temp and the differential between the house temp and the thermostat setting is much smaller) and the combination of a larger tank and more powerful boiler means it doesn't struggle with two showers and blasting the heating at the same time, even when it is below freezing outside.
Every one who has ever looked at our system has advised against a combi - different folks have different opinions, but being able to run two showers/do the dishes without worrying if you will freeze someone is handy.
We used Boxt (who I think are owned by Worcester) for supply and installation and would highly recommend - the guys did a great job and there was minimal faff, no surveys and no sales pitch - fill in their website, take a few photos, pay a fixed price, agree a date and the next day you have a new boiler. The guys did have to drill a new flue and there is a wee bit of decorating to do (old boiler was bigger than the new) but its the kind of decorating you can leave until you can be bothered to do it - the guys did a good job of leaving everything like it should look.
They didn't do a powerflush and instead did some form of chemical flush and hooked up a big filter to the system - according to the guys doing it powerflushes can cause havoc with small bore plumbing pipe - who knows if true or not, the pipes to our rads are tiny though, so I suppose it makes sense. The also fitted a mag filter as part of the install.
Came to about £3300 including the boiler, new tank, filter, installation and disposal of the old tank and boiler.
If you go with Boxt, they sent me a referral link for £50 off for you and £50 Amazon for me - mods- if this isn't allowed, please remove - although I'm just trying to save a guy £50 and get £50 worth of frivolous crap for myself
Happy we did - the old one was on its way out (not failing, but made a racket and was starting to struggle with keeping up with our usage). The tank was also completely bogging inside and too small for our house (it was a 133, we upgraded to 180).
The house now feels warmer (rads straight to temp and the differential between the house temp and the thermostat setting is much smaller) and the combination of a larger tank and more powerful boiler means it doesn't struggle with two showers and blasting the heating at the same time, even when it is below freezing outside.
Every one who has ever looked at our system has advised against a combi - different folks have different opinions, but being able to run two showers/do the dishes without worrying if you will freeze someone is handy.
We used Boxt (who I think are owned by Worcester) for supply and installation and would highly recommend - the guys did a great job and there was minimal faff, no surveys and no sales pitch - fill in their website, take a few photos, pay a fixed price, agree a date and the next day you have a new boiler. The guys did have to drill a new flue and there is a wee bit of decorating to do (old boiler was bigger than the new) but its the kind of decorating you can leave until you can be bothered to do it - the guys did a good job of leaving everything like it should look.
They didn't do a powerflush and instead did some form of chemical flush and hooked up a big filter to the system - according to the guys doing it powerflushes can cause havoc with small bore plumbing pipe - who knows if true or not, the pipes to our rads are tiny though, so I suppose it makes sense. The also fitted a mag filter as part of the install.
Came to about £3300 including the boiler, new tank, filter, installation and disposal of the old tank and boiler.
If you go with Boxt, they sent me a referral link for £50 off for you and £50 Amazon for me - mods- if this isn't allowed, please remove - although I'm just trying to save a guy £50 and get £50 worth of frivolous crap for myself
The size of the house doesn’t really matter, it’s the amount of people living there, most combi’s will easily heat a 4 bed detached, but if you need two or three showers running simultaneously then it won’t be up to the job. If it’s just you and the Mrs and you shower at different times then a medium to large combi is fine, my combi will run two showers at the same time quite easily but it’s around 40kw, there are only three of us and the house has good water pressure and good gas supply to the boiler. As mentioned, whatever system you decide on go for the longest warranty, they are all a bit rubbish now. Worcester Bosch did have a good rep but are no better than most of the others now.
ST12AT said:
Like for like - Viessmann Compact (don’t oversize it)
Upgrade to sealed system - Viessmann 100
Upgrade to high end sealed system - Viessmann 200
Want to remove the cylinder - Viessman 222
We have 2 Viessmann Vitodens 100-W boilers in a very large, very old, very draughty house and they are excellent and have been very reliable so far. They also see to be efficient regarding running costs.Upgrade to sealed system - Viessmann 100
Upgrade to high end sealed system - Viessmann 200
Want to remove the cylinder - Viessman 222
I had an ancient Ideal Mexico that never gave me any issues until it eventually died last year. Total cost was about £3500 to take the boiler out of the kitchen, remove the hot water tank and fit a condensing Worcester Bosch Greenstar in the airing cupboard, big enough to cope with a single high flow pumped shower. Came with a 10 year guarantee.
Got a plumber coming this afternoon, annoying this I pay £30 a month for boiler cover with BG, and they gave me next Wednesday as their earliest date because Covid.
Seriously, no heating and hot water and I have to wait a week or pay another company, what the hell am I paying that for ? I can understand a bit of a delay but a week ?
Will see what the plumber says but I am bored of listening to "We still need to change the boiler" so think will just bite the bullet, pay for it and then move on so we can then discuss at length getting the roof done, the bathroom and new garage doors as every time I mention fun stuff like cars, those come out so best to just get it done and not have to hear about it.
Won £75 on the Premium Bonds yesterday, boiler conks out today, cant really complain but doesn't it always happen like that
Seriously, no heating and hot water and I have to wait a week or pay another company, what the hell am I paying that for ? I can understand a bit of a delay but a week ?
Will see what the plumber says but I am bored of listening to "We still need to change the boiler" so think will just bite the bullet, pay for it and then move on so we can then discuss at length getting the roof done, the bathroom and new garage doors as every time I mention fun stuff like cars, those come out so best to just get it done and not have to hear about it.
Won £75 on the Premium Bonds yesterday, boiler conks out today, cant really complain but doesn't it always happen like that
Viessmann or Ideal are very good, 10 year warranty on some Ideal products. Just had our 10yr old ideal HE18 serviced, all like new inside and no issues.
Don't waste time repairing at that age, if you fix one issue another will surface soon after. Budget 2k for a replacement and definitely flush the system through, although any decent plumber should do this and fit a sludge trap too. Combi boilers are larger than a straight-forward boiler if space is an issue and you don't have the backup of an immersion heater if they go wrong.
An unvented water cylinder is a nice upgrade, way more expensive (5x) than a replacement vented foam-insulated cylinder. They need a pressure vessel of some sort and will show up any weak spots in your hot water plumbing as they work at the same pressure as the mains water. Great for thermostatic taps / shower / bath mixers and the like as the pressure is much higher than a gravity system and they also remove the need for noisy shower pumps. Add another 1k at least.
Don't waste time repairing at that age, if you fix one issue another will surface soon after. Budget 2k for a replacement and definitely flush the system through, although any decent plumber should do this and fit a sludge trap too. Combi boilers are larger than a straight-forward boiler if space is an issue and you don't have the backup of an immersion heater if they go wrong.
An unvented water cylinder is a nice upgrade, way more expensive (5x) than a replacement vented foam-insulated cylinder. They need a pressure vessel of some sort and will show up any weak spots in your hot water plumbing as they work at the same pressure as the mains water. Great for thermostatic taps / shower / bath mixers and the like as the pressure is much higher than a gravity system and they also remove the need for noisy shower pumps. Add another 1k at least.
J4CKO said:
Got a plumber coming this afternoon, annoying this I pay £30 a month for boiler cover with BG, and they gave me next Wednesday as their earliest date because Covid.
Seriously, no heating and hot water and I have to wait a week or pay another company, what the hell am I paying that for ? I can understand a bit of a delay but a week ?
Will see what the plumber says but I am bored of listening to "We still need to change the boiler" so think will just bite the bullet, pay for it and then move on so we can then discuss at length getting the roof done, the bathroom and new garage doors as every time I mention fun stuff like cars, those come out so best to just get it done and not have to hear about it.
Won £75 on the Premium Bonds yesterday, boiler conks out today, cant really complain but doesn't it always happen like that
So you can save £360 per year x10 years if you get a new boiler with a 10 year warranty, you’ll only need an annual service, the new boiler will be almost free Seriously, no heating and hot water and I have to wait a week or pay another company, what the hell am I paying that for ? I can understand a bit of a delay but a week ?
Will see what the plumber says but I am bored of listening to "We still need to change the boiler" so think will just bite the bullet, pay for it and then move on so we can then discuss at length getting the roof done, the bathroom and new garage doors as every time I mention fun stuff like cars, those come out so best to just get it done and not have to hear about it.
Won £75 on the Premium Bonds yesterday, boiler conks out today, cant really complain but doesn't it always happen like that
Little Lofty said:
So you can save £360 per year x10 years if you get a new boiler with a 10 year warranty, you’ll only need an annual service, the new boiler will be almost free
This. I think there was a Which? article recently that summed up service plans as, for most people, not cost effective. Plumbing, if donw well, rarely fails, just the boiler (looking at Which? right now it seems like it's Vailant top of the list closely followed by WB.)We've had new WB units for the last 2 houses and as long as you get them installed by an accredited installer, and service it every year you get a 10 year warranty, and I don't recall any time where I've waited more than 24 hours (apart from covid) for it to be fixed for free. They even replaced the heat exchangers recently when they were obviously killed by contamination.
Edited by TimmyMallett on Wednesday 3rd February 14:22
Edited by TimmyMallett on Wednesday 3rd February 14:22
The boiler is a goner, flue fan has gone, it was replaced some years back but apparently the part is now obsolete so got the surveyor coming to survey it.
The engineer that came out said the gas pipe is too small at the point it goes into the boiler, possibly back to the meter but needed to check. Also needs a condensate pipe into a grid externally but reckoned could flow into the bath outlet, which goes into a grid at the front.
Am hoping it isn't ridiculously expensive but we are now stuck as we don't have hot water or heating.
Still, 23 years out of it and wasn't new then, cant really complain too much.
Might dispense with the BG cover, and just ensure I have numbers for 2 or 2 sparks, plumbers etc.
The engineer that came out said the gas pipe is too small at the point it goes into the boiler, possibly back to the meter but needed to check. Also needs a condensate pipe into a grid externally but reckoned could flow into the bath outlet, which goes into a grid at the front.
Am hoping it isn't ridiculously expensive but we are now stuck as we don't have hot water or heating.
Still, 23 years out of it and wasn't new then, cant really complain too much.
Might dispense with the BG cover, and just ensure I have numbers for 2 or 2 sparks, plumbers etc.
I had an Ideal Combi installed last summer. 3 bed semi. 1 bathroom - 1 shower.
It's great - the house heats up better, I don't have the awful noise of the tank refilling every time I have a shower/slash and we've been able to ditch the airing cupboard to make the bathroom bigger.
We do have good water pressure anyway, which is a bonus. Hot water takes a few seconds to come through but not much worse than it was before.
Only issue is you can't do two things at once - i.e wash up with the tap running and have a shower. Not a big problem for us.
Edit - cost. I think it was about £3500 all in, including upgrading all the rads to TRV. Took about 2.5 days start to finish.
It's great - the house heats up better, I don't have the awful noise of the tank refilling every time I have a shower/slash and we've been able to ditch the airing cupboard to make the bathroom bigger.
We do have good water pressure anyway, which is a bonus. Hot water takes a few seconds to come through but not much worse than it was before.
Only issue is you can't do two things at once - i.e wash up with the tap running and have a shower. Not a big problem for us.
Edit - cost. I think it was about £3500 all in, including upgrading all the rads to TRV. Took about 2.5 days start to finish.
J4CKO said:
Got a plumber coming this afternoon, annoying this I pay £30 a month for boiler cover with BG, and they gave me next Wednesday as their earliest date because Covid.
They were on strike for 12 days last month and the union is calling for another strike, so it's probably more to do with catching up than Covid. They told some neighbours of ours to get their own repair guy and they would pay. In the end they didn't have CH for 8 days through the very cold period we just had.ETA: Looks like they're on strike again Friday to Monday.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Wednesday 3rd February 16:07
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