Electronic Ignition
Discussion
Hi.
I have a 1979 Midget 1500 and I've been thinking about upgrading the ignition system to remove the contact breakers.
I have looked at a few conversion kits online, some of which have less than complimentary reviews, and I was wondering if anyone here has any experience/opinions of kits that you are using?
Thanks!
I have a 1979 Midget 1500 and I've been thinking about upgrading the ignition system to remove the contact breakers.
I have looked at a few conversion kits online, some of which have less than complimentary reviews, and I was wondering if anyone here has any experience/opinions of kits that you are using?
Thanks!
Martin350 said:
Hi.
I have a 1979 Midget 1500 and I've been thinking about upgrading the ignition system to remove the contact breakers.
I have looked at a few conversion kits online, some of which have less than complimentary reviews, and I was wondering if anyone here has any experience/opinions of kits that you are using?
Thanks!
I had a 1975 Midget 1500 and I got rid of the points/condenser (after a string of bad condensers which just failed after a few weeks' use straight from the box) and put on an AccuSpark kit. Very easy to install with very clear instructions and never had any problems. I didn't notice any performance gains, but it was quicker to start and had a much smoother, more even idle - rock solid rpm like a car on EFI. I have a 1979 Midget 1500 and I've been thinking about upgrading the ignition system to remove the contact breakers.
I have looked at a few conversion kits online, some of which have less than complimentary reviews, and I was wondering if anyone here has any experience/opinions of kits that you are using?
Thanks!
You have to specify a 7.9-volt or a 12-volt coil depending on whether your Midget has ballasted ignition or not. Mine was supposed to (and yours should to) but when I came to fit the kit it turned out that when it had a new loom put in it they went for a non-ballasted arrangement. So I rang up AccuSpark and without any quibbles they sent me a 12-volt coil out, zero charge, with a pre-paid jiffy bag to send the other one back.
I've used Lumenition kits in Minis before and, while a bit trickier to install, they have also been very reliable once set up right.
I’ve fitted a few Magnetronics with good results.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/ignition-syst...
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/ignition-syst...
2xChevrons said:
I had a 1975 Midget 1500 and I got rid of the points/condenser (after a string of bad condensers which just failed after a few weeks' use straight from the box) and put on an AccuSpark kit. Very easy to install with very clear instructions and never had any problems. I didn't notice any performance gains, but it was quicker to start and had a much smoother, more even idle - rock solid rpm like a car on EFI.
You have to specify a 7.9-volt or a 12-volt coil depending on whether your Midget has ballasted ignition or not. Mine was supposed to (and yours should to) but when I came to fit the kit it turned out that when it had a new loom put in it they went for a non-ballasted arrangement. So I rang up AccuSpark and without any quibbles they sent me a 12-volt coil out, zero charge, with a pre-paid jiffy bag to send the other one back.
I've used Lumenition kits in Minis before and, while a bit trickier to install, they have also been very reliable once set up right.
Some good info there, thanks.You have to specify a 7.9-volt or a 12-volt coil depending on whether your Midget has ballasted ignition or not. Mine was supposed to (and yours should to) but when I came to fit the kit it turned out that when it had a new loom put in it they went for a non-ballasted arrangement. So I rang up AccuSpark and without any quibbles they sent me a 12-volt coil out, zero charge, with a pre-paid jiffy bag to send the other one back.
I've used Lumenition kits in Minis before and, while a bit trickier to install, they have also been very reliable once set up right.
I was looking at AccuSpark and the price seemed almost too good to be true. And that was the one I read not so great reviews of.
I'm not expecting performance gains, and I don't really drive it very quickly anyway, but better starting and smoother running would be a nice bonus.
I suspect I have a recent ballast resistor problem with mine so maybe I could get rid of that at the same time...
Lotobear said:
A 1-2-3 dizzy would be a good choice.
I've not actually heard of those, but I'll definitely look into it, thanks!miniman said:
I’ve fitted a few Magnetronics with good results.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/ignition-syst...
Thank you, another one I've been looking at.https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/ignition-syst...
There's quite a few choices so interesting to hear what people are using.
There are 3 basic types of electronic ignition:
1. Simple points replacement.
Just replace the points with a tiny electronic module and either an optical or magnetic (hall effect) trigger that fits over the distributor shaft.
+ Cheap.
+ Quick and simple to fit/remove.
+ 100% removable.
+ Reduces maintenance (don't need to keep getting re-gapped).
- All seem to have reliability/longevity issues (but that are cheap, so just buy 2 and always have a spare in the boot, like you would with points).
- Doesn't do anything much to counter wear of the distributor/dristributor shaft.
1.5. Things like Lumenition Optronic.
Basically the same as above but with external electronics and an amplifier.
+ Should be more reliable - certainly see fewer threads complaining about them, but then also fewer fitted than the cheap ones.
- Generally as above but more expensive and only 99% removable (you need to mount the amplifier block somewhere which can often mean drilling a couple of holes). A couple of the classic I've bought have had this sort of box fitted a long time ago...but no longer wired up, make of that what you will.
2. Electronic distributors (e.g. "123").
+ Reasonably quick and simple to fit/remove.
+ 100% removable.
+ Reduces maintenance.
+ Counters wear in the old distributor leading to inconsistent spark timing.
- Around 10x the cost of a #1 kit/twice a #1.5 one.
3. Mappable ignition timing (e.g. Megajolt).
+ Maintenance free.
+ Counters wear in the old distributor.
+ More accurate than even a #2, quite simply because more data points.
+ With a rolling road session you can get as near as possible to 'ideal timing', even #2 can only get you to 'closer to ideal'.
- Requires significant, non 'bolt on' modification that are harder to remove.
- Requires a reasonable level for mechanical and electronic skills to fit, and often there won't be a simple 'bolt-on' kit for your car.
- Requires a rolling road set-up session to get the best out of it.
- Around the same to 2x the cost of a #2 kit (depending how much you buy/how much you make yourself).
ALL kits should give you advantages over mechanical points, so it's really a question of how far you want to go/how much you want to spend/WHY you're doing it.
1. Not trying to fix an issue as such, just bored during lockdown and looking to make a little improvement to my car.
Got for one of the #1 kits, at which point it's very much "Just pick one.". Whichever of the cheap ones you go for just remember to buy 2. Fit one and put the other, plus the old points/condensor in the boot. IF it fails, you have a spare to swap straight in, and if that fails the old points to get you home.
(I'm not sure I can actually see a reason for fitting a 1.5 kit these days?)
2. Trying to resolve issues actually caused by wear in the distributor/distributor shaft - but either want my car to look as original as possible or an scared of wires.
Go for one of the replacement electronic distributors. Sure a new mechanical dizzy + #1 kit will remove the wear AND replace the point, but it's a compromised solution vs. an electronic dizzy.
3. Any/all of the above but either want the best solution - or just need a bigger project.
Go for something like Megajolt. I've got this fitted to my car and the mark specialist I use, so has driven my model of car with almost every set-up, thought I'd swapped to the bigger engine the first time he drove it post-Megajolt, there was just such a gain in both torque and drivability across the RPM range. AND the MPG went up (due to no longer having to drive around issues - it's not magic).
1. Simple points replacement.
Just replace the points with a tiny electronic module and either an optical or magnetic (hall effect) trigger that fits over the distributor shaft.
+ Cheap.
+ Quick and simple to fit/remove.
+ 100% removable.
+ Reduces maintenance (don't need to keep getting re-gapped).
- All seem to have reliability/longevity issues (but that are cheap, so just buy 2 and always have a spare in the boot, like you would with points).
- Doesn't do anything much to counter wear of the distributor/dristributor shaft.
1.5. Things like Lumenition Optronic.
Basically the same as above but with external electronics and an amplifier.
+ Should be more reliable - certainly see fewer threads complaining about them, but then also fewer fitted than the cheap ones.
- Generally as above but more expensive and only 99% removable (you need to mount the amplifier block somewhere which can often mean drilling a couple of holes). A couple of the classic I've bought have had this sort of box fitted a long time ago...but no longer wired up, make of that what you will.
2. Electronic distributors (e.g. "123").
+ Reasonably quick and simple to fit/remove.
+ 100% removable.
+ Reduces maintenance.
+ Counters wear in the old distributor leading to inconsistent spark timing.
- Around 10x the cost of a #1 kit/twice a #1.5 one.
3. Mappable ignition timing (e.g. Megajolt).
+ Maintenance free.
+ Counters wear in the old distributor.
+ More accurate than even a #2, quite simply because more data points.
+ With a rolling road session you can get as near as possible to 'ideal timing', even #2 can only get you to 'closer to ideal'.
- Requires significant, non 'bolt on' modification that are harder to remove.
- Requires a reasonable level for mechanical and electronic skills to fit, and often there won't be a simple 'bolt-on' kit for your car.
- Requires a rolling road set-up session to get the best out of it.
- Around the same to 2x the cost of a #2 kit (depending how much you buy/how much you make yourself).
ALL kits should give you advantages over mechanical points, so it's really a question of how far you want to go/how much you want to spend/WHY you're doing it.
1. Not trying to fix an issue as such, just bored during lockdown and looking to make a little improvement to my car.
Got for one of the #1 kits, at which point it's very much "Just pick one.". Whichever of the cheap ones you go for just remember to buy 2. Fit one and put the other, plus the old points/condensor in the boot. IF it fails, you have a spare to swap straight in, and if that fails the old points to get you home.
(I'm not sure I can actually see a reason for fitting a 1.5 kit these days?)
2. Trying to resolve issues actually caused by wear in the distributor/distributor shaft - but either want my car to look as original as possible or an scared of wires.
Go for one of the replacement electronic distributors. Sure a new mechanical dizzy + #1 kit will remove the wear AND replace the point, but it's a compromised solution vs. an electronic dizzy.
3. Any/all of the above but either want the best solution - or just need a bigger project.
Go for something like Megajolt. I've got this fitted to my car and the mark specialist I use, so has driven my model of car with almost every set-up, thought I'd swapped to the bigger engine the first time he drove it post-Megajolt, there was just such a gain in both torque and drivability across the RPM range. AND the MPG went up (due to no longer having to drive around issues - it's not magic).
Many Lumenition , Piranha ign systems often failed due to being wired to a permantly live supply IME back in their heyday 
I found both reliable although prefered Lumenition's module build quality, mapped ign Megajolt etc will give the biggest improvment due to the advance curve being infinitely more adjustable to suite your motors spec , 123 seems a good option however being just this whilst looking stock i.e no coil pack, trigger wheel, crank triggers etc , if you decide on a discrete/hidden inner dizzy cap option (Accuspark etc) then always carry a set of points and a condenser inc mounting screws as a fall back if the system should fail
I found both reliable although prefered Lumenition's module build quality, mapped ign Megajolt etc will give the biggest improvment due to the advance curve being infinitely more adjustable to suite your motors spec , 123 seems a good option however being just this whilst looking stock i.e no coil pack, trigger wheel, crank triggers etc , if you decide on a discrete/hidden inner dizzy cap option (Accuspark etc) then always carry a set of points and a condenser inc mounting screws as a fall back if the system should fail Edited by Zener on Friday 5th February 15:24
Similar to OP but a Ford Crossflow in a Caterham.
It's had an Aldon distributor fitted with points and condenser for the last 30 years. They've worked fine. So why do I want to change it?
(Thinking about Megajolt but wondering whether it's really worth it. Maybe a 123 is the better option although it's the same cost as a Megajolt install.. No where near a rolling road is a further restriction to me)
Good luck which ever route you take OP. Let us know the results.
It's had an Aldon distributor fitted with points and condenser for the last 30 years. They've worked fine. So why do I want to change it?
(Thinking about Megajolt but wondering whether it's really worth it. Maybe a 123 is the better option although it's the same cost as a Megajolt install.. No where near a rolling road is a further restriction to me)
Good luck which ever route you take OP. Let us know the results.
my brother used Lumenition was on the car years 
Clifford Chambers said:
I popped a 123 onto my alpine, very good too fabulous quality.
My biggest niggle (which may have been improved) the unit had to be removed to tinker with the advance curve. Otherwise set up was easy.
My old dissy was furbar anyway so it kinda made sense, I didn't regret the spend
I put one on an 2.0 Alfa Nord and it made a huge difference - I think you can get a version now where the map can be switched from your phone.My biggest niggle (which may have been improved) the unit had to be removed to tinker with the advance curve. Otherwise set up was easy.
My old dissy was furbar anyway so it kinda made sense, I didn't regret the spend
Skyedriver said:
Similar to OP but a Ford Crossflow in a Caterham.
It's had an Aldon distributor fitted with points and condenser for the last 30 years. They've worked fine. So why do I want to change it?
(Thinking about Megajolt but wondering whether it's really worth it. Maybe a 123 is the better option although it's the same cost as a Megajolt install.. No where near a rolling road is a further restriction to me)
Good luck which ever route you take OP. Let us know the results.
To be fair the base map loaded onto a MJ is not far off what you eventually end up with after a rolling road session - I ran mine for a year on the base map before getting is set up on rolling road when I fitted a MJ system to a Lotus twincam. It's a superior system to 123 but quite complicated to install, whereas a 123 can be fitted in less than 30 minutes.It's had an Aldon distributor fitted with points and condenser for the last 30 years. They've worked fine. So why do I want to change it?
(Thinking about Megajolt but wondering whether it's really worth it. Maybe a 123 is the better option although it's the same cost as a Megajolt install.. No where near a rolling road is a further restriction to me)
Good luck which ever route you take OP. Let us know the results.
All things being equal I would go with MJ - it completely transformed my Elan and left me with something that was good enough to stop me then shelling out for the full FI conversion.
Skyedriver said:
(Thinking about Megajolt but wondering whether it's really worth it. Maybe a 123 is the better option although it's the same cost as a Megajolt install.. No where near a rolling road is a further restriction to me)
1. If you drive your car a lot then yes, it is worth it. If it's just a Sunday 5 mile drive to th4e pub and back car, probably not.2. The lack of ready access to a rolling road shouldn't stop you.
a) Even the default map will have you happily up and running without doing any damage (it's a deliberatly safe one). Think of it as being 75%/80% of the way there - probably about where you're starting from on points!
b) Unless you have something really odd there's a good chance someone has done the same engine, in a similar state of tune to yours before and will happily share their map. This will be even better than the default map and get you 90% of the way.
If you only have a) then it will be fine for you to drive around a bit and make a longer journey to a rolling road.
If you have b) then you could just skip the rolling road if you're happy with how the car runs - though it's worth it, both that last 10% to what's ideal for your car and to learn what else is "wrong" with it. For my car we saw the CO2 trace perfect at idle/mid throttle but dropping/rising (I forget which) as the RPM went up and with the timing optomized for that load point, which meant the mixture was going lean (or rich) and i needed a different SU needle profile. I don't really push the RPM though so still haven't quite gotten around to sorting it...in the last 10 years.
I fitted accuspark ignition on my modified A30 about 10 years ago and it has never gone wrong. A service consists of oil and air filter and no points faffing about.
It has been that good, I've purchased a complete new accuspark dizzy for my A35 van now and the engine is a smooth as I've ever heard.
It has been that good, I've purchased a complete new accuspark dizzy for my A35 van now and the engine is a smooth as I've ever heard.
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