‘File being prepared for court’ - Speeding offence advise.
Discussion
Hopefully someone can quash my worries a little before I receive the summons and seek legal advice, so long story short.
- Speeding offence sept 2020 47 in a 40, usual notice received but unsure who was driving (day out some way from home in my gf’s car, shared driving) -no photos provided.
- After discussion decided gf was driving so form returned accordingly - her offer of speed awareness received, all is well.
- Lockdown happens, gf (yes I know no excuse) completely misses course and as a result they look back at file, in pictures I am driving so send letter out to us including said images asking if she would like to provide new driver info - I am clearly driving with her next to me.
- New driver (mine) info sent out with apologetic letter stating it was in best belief after discussion who was driving and sincere apologies for missing speed awareness course etc.
- I receive form, fill out my details as driver and return.
I have now received a letter stating: ‘due to the time taken to obtain driver identity, we have insufficient time to be able to deal with the matter by way of fixed penalty - your file will now be prepared for court and summons will follow’
Please no comments about getting gf to take points, I have 3 points on my license and no desire / need to do so - I am now just worried they will attempt to prosecute me for not only speeding (3 points I assume) but also failure to identify which is 6 points - a ban essentially.
I responded as quickly as possible to the request for my information, so wouldn’t it be my gf who is liable for not providing driver info in time? - letter is addressed to me, or could she be awaiting a similar letter / this is pending decision?
- Speeding offence sept 2020 47 in a 40, usual notice received but unsure who was driving (day out some way from home in my gf’s car, shared driving) -no photos provided.
- After discussion decided gf was driving so form returned accordingly - her offer of speed awareness received, all is well.
- Lockdown happens, gf (yes I know no excuse) completely misses course and as a result they look back at file, in pictures I am driving so send letter out to us including said images asking if she would like to provide new driver info - I am clearly driving with her next to me.
- New driver (mine) info sent out with apologetic letter stating it was in best belief after discussion who was driving and sincere apologies for missing speed awareness course etc.
- I receive form, fill out my details as driver and return.
I have now received a letter stating: ‘due to the time taken to obtain driver identity, we have insufficient time to be able to deal with the matter by way of fixed penalty - your file will now be prepared for court and summons will follow’
Please no comments about getting gf to take points, I have 3 points on my license and no desire / need to do so - I am now just worried they will attempt to prosecute me for not only speeding (3 points I assume) but also failure to identify which is 6 points - a ban essentially.
I responded as quickly as possible to the request for my information, so wouldn’t it be my gf who is liable for not providing driver info in time? - letter is addressed to me, or could she be awaiting a similar letter / this is pending decision?
Edited by Rick1.8t on Tuesday 9th February 20:42
You do realise how serious this is? You and your gf are looking at a potential charge of perverting the course of justice, that is so serious it is tried in a crown court and carries a potential life sentence.
Fortunately that is very very unlikely to happen in this case but my advice is consult a good lawyer and do exactly what they tell you to do to sort this mess out. Your defence that you did not know is unlikely to hold water, as you are suppose to declare that you're unsure who the driver is and list all potential drivers. You didn't do that, you declared a driver who would receive a speed awareness course, instead of yourself, when you have 3 points on your licence already and would get a harsher penalty. It does not look good.
Like I said, my advice is take this seriously, get proper professional legal advice and do exactly what your legal professional tells you to do.
Fortunately that is very very unlikely to happen in this case but my advice is consult a good lawyer and do exactly what they tell you to do to sort this mess out. Your defence that you did not know is unlikely to hold water, as you are suppose to declare that you're unsure who the driver is and list all potential drivers. You didn't do that, you declared a driver who would receive a speed awareness course, instead of yourself, when you have 3 points on your licence already and would get a harsher penalty. It does not look good.
Like I said, my advice is take this seriously, get proper professional legal advice and do exactly what your legal professional tells you to do.
Failure to identify vs incorrectly identifying to the best of your knowledge within the timelines specified are surely two completely separate things.
Always far too much scaremongering on here. Chances are a summons won’t even get issued during the COVID lockdowns anyway. They dumped a whole stack of cases last year and a good few posters here were cheering much to the chagrin of the usual crowd.
Always far too much scaremongering on here. Chances are a summons won’t even get issued during the COVID lockdowns anyway. They dumped a whole stack of cases last year and a good few posters here were cheering much to the chagrin of the usual crowd.
bartelbe said:
You do realise how serious this is? You and your gf are looking at a potential charge of perverting the course of justice, that is so serious it is tried in a crown court and carries a potential life sentence.
Fortunately that is very very unlikely to happen in this case but my advice is consult a good lawyer and do exactly what they tell you to do to sort this mess out. Your defence that you did not know is unlikely to hold water, as you are suppose to declare that you're unsure who the driver is and list all potential drivers. You didn't do that, you declared a driver who would receive a speed awareness course, instead of yourself, when you have 3 points on your licence already and would get a harsher penalty. It does not look good.
Like I said, my advice is take this seriously, get proper professional legal advice and do exactly what your legal professional tells you to do.
As far as I can see and from the wording in the letter received - the police have accepted I was the driver at the time of the offence and have confirmed receipt of my completed form as I mentioned.Fortunately that is very very unlikely to happen in this case but my advice is consult a good lawyer and do exactly what they tell you to do to sort this mess out. Your defence that you did not know is unlikely to hold water, as you are suppose to declare that you're unsure who the driver is and list all potential drivers. You didn't do that, you declared a driver who would receive a speed awareness course, instead of yourself, when you have 3 points on your licence already and would get a harsher penalty. It does not look good.
Like I said, my advice is take this seriously, get proper professional legal advice and do exactly what your legal professional tells you to do.
I will seek advice of course but from how it appears, I am being dealt with via court as they are no longer able to deal with the speeding offence via fixed penalty due to time - they have accepted me as being the driver.
The police are addressing the court proceeding to me, not my GF, unless she is awaiting her own summons of course - it is her they would need to prosecute for failure to identify the correct driver so is it possible I am simply being dealt with in the court due to running out of time, or is she waiting for her own letter...
I understand perverting the course of justice is the headline grabbing response here (Which was not the k intention regardless of your view - why would we do so so I could avoid a speed awareness course myself?) and of course, as I said I will seek legal advice upon summons.
Edited by Rick1.8t on Tuesday 9th February 23:31
Edited by Rick1.8t on Tuesday 9th February 23:32
bartelbe said:
You do realise how serious this is? You and your gf are looking at a potential charge of perverting the course of justice, that is so serious it is tried in a crown court and carries a potential life sentence.
Fortunately that is very very unlikely to happen in this case but my advice is consult a good lawyer and do exactly what they tell you to do to sort this mess out. Your defence that you did not know is unlikely to hold water, as you are suppose to declare that you're unsure who the driver is and list all potential drivers. You didn't do that, you declared a driver who would receive a speed awareness course, instead of yourself, when you have 3 points on your licence already and would get a harsher penalty. It does not look good.
Like I said, my advice is take this seriously, get proper professional legal advice and do exactly what your legal professional tells you to do.
If that is your advice it’s probably best kept under your hat as most of it is scaremongering toshFortunately that is very very unlikely to happen in this case but my advice is consult a good lawyer and do exactly what they tell you to do to sort this mess out. Your defence that you did not know is unlikely to hold water, as you are suppose to declare that you're unsure who the driver is and list all potential drivers. You didn't do that, you declared a driver who would receive a speed awareness course, instead of yourself, when you have 3 points on your licence already and would get a harsher penalty. It does not look good.
Like I said, my advice is take this seriously, get proper professional legal advice and do exactly what your legal professional tells you to do.
The op and his girlfriend appear to have made an honest mistake in mis identifying the driver and that this was a mistake seems to have been accepted, hence the ‘2nd chance’ to provide the correct info, which actually happens quite often, If they had considered this to be a wilful act to PCOJ rather than a mistake, do you really think they would have bothered? Your assertion that unless you are 100% sure of the driver you are required to state as such is also incorrect.
OP assuming the initial S172 / Nip was answered within the correct timescale then any prosecution for failing to furnish is very unlikely as you did, albeit incorrectly. I would sit tight and wait until you receive the paperwork.
Edit to add as suggested earlier, when said paperwork arrives and you know what you’re dealing with, having a chat with AGT law maybe a prudent thing to do
Edited by martinbiz on Wednesday 10th February 00:45
Rick1.8t said:
I am now just worried they will attempt to prosecute me for not only speeding (3 points I assume) but also failure to identify which is 6 points - a ban essentially.
Presumably, as it was your GF's car, she is the registered keeper and she signed the original S.172 naming the driver. As that could all happen without your knowledge you cannot be prosecuted for failing to correctly identify.
ks , what a farce . Hope it works out Rick1.8t said:
Hopefully someone can quash my worries a little before I receive the summons and seek legal advice, so long story short.
- Speeding offence sept 2020 47 in a 40, usual notice received but unsure who was driving (day out some way from home in my gf’s car, shared driving) -no photos provided.
- After discussion decided gf was driving so form returned accordingly - her offer of speed awareness received, all is well.
- Lockdown happens, gf (yes I know no excuse) completely misses course and as a result they look back at file, in pictures I am driving so send letter out to us including said images asking if she would like to provide new driver info - I am clearly driving with her next to me.
- New driver (mine) info sent out with apologetic letter stating it was in best belief after discussion who was driving and sincere apologies for missing speed awareness course etc.
- I receive form, fill out my details as driver and return.
I have now received a letter stating: ‘due to the time taken to obtain driver identity, we have insufficient time to be able to deal with the matter by way of fixed penalty - your file will now be prepared for court and summons will follow’
Please no comments about getting gf to take points, I have 3 points on my license and no desire / need to do so - I am now just worried they will attempt to prosecute me for not only speeding (3 points I assume) but also failure to identify which is 6 points - a ban essentially.
I responded as quickly as possible to the request for my information, so wouldn’t it be my gf who is liable for not providing driver info in time? - letter is addressed to me, or could she be awaiting a similar letter / this is pending decision?
Post is vague in places. Some assumptions made.- Speeding offence sept 2020 47 in a 40, usual notice received but unsure who was driving (day out some way from home in my gf’s car, shared driving) -no photos provided.
- After discussion decided gf was driving so form returned accordingly - her offer of speed awareness received, all is well.
- Lockdown happens, gf (yes I know no excuse) completely misses course and as a result they look back at file, in pictures I am driving so send letter out to us including said images asking if she would like to provide new driver info - I am clearly driving with her next to me.
- New driver (mine) info sent out with apologetic letter stating it was in best belief after discussion who was driving and sincere apologies for missing speed awareness course etc.
- I receive form, fill out my details as driver and return.
I have now received a letter stating: ‘due to the time taken to obtain driver identity, we have insufficient time to be able to deal with the matter by way of fixed penalty - your file will now be prepared for court and summons will follow’
Please no comments about getting gf to take points, I have 3 points on my license and no desire / need to do so - I am now just worried they will attempt to prosecute me for not only speeding (3 points I assume) but also failure to identify which is 6 points - a ban essentially.
I responded as quickly as possible to the request for my information, so wouldn’t it be my gf who is liable for not providing driver info in time? - letter is addressed to me, or could she be awaiting a similar letter / this is pending decision?
Edited by Rick1.8t on Tuesday 9th February 20:42
You’ll be prosecuted for speeding. You won’t get a Summons. If prosecuted then you will receive an SJPN or Postal Requisition.
Gf should be prosecuted for failing to give driver info, but reality is that she is very unlikely to be prosecuted.
Surely even if it goes to court you could claim it was an administrative error, highlight how you have replied in good time when alerted, not dispute the charge and request a penalty in line with the fixed penalty which would otherwise have been offered were it not beyond your control.
agtlaw said:
Post is vague in places. Some assumptions made.
You’ll be prosecuted for speeding. You won’t get a Summons. If prosecuted then you will receive an SJPN or Postal Requisition.
Gf should be prosecuted for failing to give driver info, but reality is that she is very unlikely to be prosecuted.
Thank you for taking the time to give your view on this -I will wait for further correspondence.You’ll be prosecuted for speeding. You won’t get a Summons. If prosecuted then you will receive an SJPN or Postal Requisition.
Gf should be prosecuted for failing to give driver info, but reality is that she is very unlikely to be prosecuted.
Rick1.8t said:
The police are addressing the court proceeding to me, not my GF, unless she is awaiting her own summons of course - it is her they would need to prosecute for failure to identify the correct driver so is it possible I am simply being dealt with in the court due to running out of time, or is she waiting for her own letter...
That depends to some extent on was is the RK? Sounds like GF is, in which case you are probably right.I suspect you'll just get a speeding prosecution via a single justice procedure. Anyway, until it arrives, it's just guesswork.
BertBert said:
Registered keeper on the V5
Yes she is registered keeper and insurer, I am a named driver on insurance, on picture provided to us she is sitting next to me.She has received a letter (a few weeks ago) confirming they have received the NIP completed in my name (after she was asked to confirm who was driving) and following that they returned the form to me which I completed and sent to them - all correspondence has been addressed to myself since this.
Edited by Rick1.8t on Wednesday 10th February 09:48
kiethton said:
Surely even if it goes to court you could claim it was an administrative error, highlight how you have replied in good time when alerted, not dispute the charge and request a penalty in line with the fixed penalty which would otherwise have been offered were it not beyond your control.
As the administrative errors were of the OP’s own making and not the system they are unlikely to agree to a punishment inline with the FP, there is certainly no harm in asking the question though, the worst that can happen is he gets told to do one and receives an income related fine, which for 47 in a 40 will be at the lower end off the scale anyway Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff