Dismissal due to ill health...

[red22]

As the title really. I am due to get dismissed because of my long term sick leave. I knew it was coming, so no problem with it. However my company seem to think I should grant them permission to have access to and obtain hard copies of my medical records.

I am more than a little sceptical about this, from the information I can find this shouldn't be required. I have agreed with my Dr that he has permission to answer any questions they may have about my treatments and conditions but, they're still wanting access to my records.

When I'm dismissed I won't be walking away with a golden hand shake or pension or insurance, just dismissed.

So the way understand it, they can ask my Dr questions if I give permission, and that they can request a report on my health from my Dr and have me examined. Is that about right?

Sorry for the length. Does anyone have any experience from either side?

Thanks.

[Pit Pony]

red22 said:

As the title really. I am due to get dismissed because of my long term sick leave. I knew it was coming, so no problem with it. However my company seem to think I should grant them permission to have access to and obtain hard copies of my medical records.

I am more than a little sceptical about this, from the information I can find this shouldn't be required. I have agreed with my Dr that he has permission to answer any questions they may have about my treatments and conditions but, they're still wanting access to my records.

When I'm dismissed I won't be walking away with a golden hand shake or pension or insurance, just dismissed.

So the way understand it, they can ask my Dr questions if I give permission, and that they can request a report on my health from my Dr and have me examined. Is that about right?

Sorry for the length. Does anyone have any experience from either side?

Thanks.

I'm.notban employment specialist. Far from it, but some years ago I managed a team of shop floor operators in a factory. We had one bloke who said h e had health problems, I think the big C.
Over a period of about 4 years his record was 3 weeks without going off sick. When I was "gifted" this department, the production director and HR director had already decided to remove him.
To my mind it was irrelevant. We didn't pay them if they were off sick. And if he did turn up, I had th e flexibility to put him somewhere safe, doing productive work. We were always struggling to keep up, and they werent intending on replacing him.

They'd been led to believe that his cancer was much improved. And he wasn't ill , but was helping his brother with his gardening business, when needed extra help, cash in hand for more than the st wages we paid. Such is the way in factories. Lots of locals living in the same housing estates, drinking in the same pubs. Production director was from.the same town, rumour get around.

So the HR manager decided to ask to see his medical records. Reason, that it was a safety thing. We had a duty of care etc...
He did not have to allow access, we couldn't force it, but if he didn't we could draw our own conclusions .

They thought they'd catch out that he'd been lying, and that they could sack him...but I was to suggest informally off the record that he might be offered a package deal to leave and that if he wanted that, he should just ask as soon as he could in his meeting with them....Apparently, He took a sum.of money equal to 6 months pay....

[Ussrcossack]

Quite standard imo gives the employer a full picture.

Have they sent you to occupational health. And had regular catch up meetings.

If not they are not really covering themselves, have they asked you when you think you could return

[parabolica]

Standard practice; what they’ll want to be checking is if your doctor considers your health situation to be directly attributed to any work place exposure. This helps tell them if there I a likely duty of care liability that they need to consider before ending your employment.

[red22]

This is not a big company, 100ish employees. This outcome was pretty predictable from the moment from the moment it began. I made it clear at the start that I knew it would come to this.

There haven't been catch up meetings but I have advised them of my condition everytime I've provided a sick note.

As I said I will get no moneys when all this is said and done. I know that I'm incapable of performing the required tasks and that no amount of fiddling with my hours or work duties will change this.

I don't see why they need to see my records. I'm perfectly ok with them asking my Dr any questions or having them prepare a report or having me evaluated by whoever they want. Demanding to see my records seems more the a bit instrusive.

Thanks for the replies.

[jjones]

They are "firing" you with no pay off regardless so why would you grant them access? Am I missing something?

[SydneyBridge]

I guess they want to protect themselves in case they are sued for unfair dismissal

[boyse7en]

Sounds like they are trying to cover their backsides in case you try to challenge them for wrongful dismissal.
I guess they have to give some reason for the dismissal, so have to be able to justify it. If they don't get access to the records they are requesting, what have they said they will do? Use gross misconduct or similar for the reason for dismissal?

[FWIW]

jjones said:

They are "firing" you with no pay off regardless so why would you grant them access? Am I missing something?

That’s what I was thinking.

[Jasandjules]

Are you certain they are "dismissing you" or are they seeking a referral from Occupational Health to ascertain whether there are any reasonable adjustments they can make?

[TWOKWACKS]

If you are fully accepting you have to leave this employment and it is no fault of the company you work for, why not just resign and write them a letter telling them the situation and it is not due to anything you will hold them liable for.
Then I don’t think there would be any need for disclosing your medical records. That’s what I would probably do.

[Ussrcossack]

Id be asking for the company sick policy.

If they have not met with you, assessed you how can they dismiss, without proper evidence.

I've been both a trade union convenor and currently a senior manager.
If be worried about a large employer like yours not meeting getting their own report to come to a decision.

Even redeploying you into son part of the business could be an option.

If you want them to terminate your employment key them if not keep fighting

[Countdown]

red22 said:

As the title really. I am due to get dismissed because of my long term sick leave. I knew it was coming, so no problem with it. However my company seem to think I should grant them permission to have access to and obtain hard copies of my medical records.

I am more than a little sceptical about this, from the information I can find this shouldn't be required. I have agreed with my Dr that he has permission to answer any questions they may have about my treatments and conditions but, they're still wanting access to my records.

When I'm dismissed I won't be walking away with a golden hand shake or pension or insurance, just dismissed.

So the way understand it, they can ask my Dr questions if I give permission, and that they can request a report on my health from my Dr and have me examined. Is that about right?

Sorry for the length. Does anyone have any experience from either side?

Thanks.

Does the Company have an Absence Management Policy? In my experience an AMP sets out the attendance requirement, the trigger points for review, the "official warnings" and then the point at which they would dismiss. In order to dismiss you they would need to prove that you were no longer capable of doing your job because of attendance and they would do this by sending you to their own Doctor or OH specialist. They would make an assessment and for it to be as accurate as possible they probably want to look at your medical records.

If you're "happy" to leave there's no point giving them access. If you want to fight to stay, and your medical records indicate that you are likely to make a recovery in the near future, then you should share.

[red22]

Again thanks for the replies.

With regards to me resigning. I'm not going to make myself intentionally unemployed. I've already lost half my household income apart from some SSP, and I'm about to lose that. It looks like I won't be eligible for any benefits but don't want one affect any chance I might have by being intentionally unemployed.

As I said quite happy for them to consult my Dr or have theirs evaluate me. Have no intention of claiming unfair dismissal because it's not, I am unable to perform my tasks and they won't be able to offer a position because I won't be able to do it. They haven't exactly got a lot to prove.

As others have said why do they need access to my records? I'm not disputing they need to sack me, and I won't be fighting it.

[Countdown]

red22 said:

As others have said why do they need access to my records?

To confirm that your ill=health isn't likely to get better in the near future.

If you were going to take them to ET on the grounds that you were about to fully recover, and this was confirmed by your medical records, and they hadn't checked them, they would look stupid at best.

[Ussrcossack]

Covering their backs and building a case.

How do they know you won't claim unfair dismissal. You might be a gent and good to your word but an employer has to put a case together that proves without reasonable doubt that you have to be let go.

And as the records will be written there is no misunderstanding.
Your doctors verbal testimony might be disagreed at some stage in the future

[shouldbworking]

They want it because written evidence is better than verbal evidence, regardless of which way the decision is headed

[red22]

As I said I'm not fighting it. I'm on SSP, fighting to extend my employment won't have me winging it away to the Caribbean.

Also no I will not be getting better. I get that they can dispute what a Dr verbally says but if they get their own medical written medical report an their own evaluation of me what's the issue. I have no problem with access to my records if tribunals and solicitors were involved bit they're not.

[sutoka]

I'm in a similar situation been on long term sick for just over two years awaiting complex spinal surgery I have no idea how long the waiting list is and if I 'll be able to go back and do the job I did before. My GP misdiagnosed me and nearly put me in a wheelchair. Another from the same practice prescribed me the wrong medication and told me to 'experiment' with the different meds which my consultant neurosurgeon told me could have killed me.

Spoke to senior management last week who although still sounded sympathetic said they would speak to HR. I suspect the discussion is about how to rid of me. Over twelve years service but I I know loyalty counts for nothing these days.

[Ussrcossack]

We usually dismiss from 26 weeks plus.

Depend on circumstances 52 weeks and as managers we are scrutinised

Exceptions cancer

Local government for any ones information