Help me convince someone they need a will

[Taita]

Hello,

A family friend doesn't have a will, but has some fairly complex financial circumstances. Married with two kids, no family strife etc.

Rough assets are circa 800k split over three properties (two UK, one Europe) and significant Cash / ISA holdings across a significant number of institutions.

I understand that if they were to die intestate, then it will roughly follow the 'passes to wife, with some split between kids if secondary property'

Would someone be able to detail the benefits of creating a will in her situation as I'm not hugely familiar with the details. I believe there is plenty of evidence that intestate deaths are significantly more expensive to 'execute' as well as more emotionally difficult for all involved.

Edited by Taita on Wednesday 17th February 12:28

[Taita]

Bump for the morning coffee crew

[Carbon Sasquatch]

I'm somewhat similar - I know I really should make one, but can't really be arsed. I'll be dead - as long as my wife & kids get it.

Hopefully someone will help get me over the line and I'll get around to it - my kids are in their 20's and I haven't managed to muster the enthusiasm yet..... probably as I'm still married to their mum and have been for 30 years (and no prior marriages) - if my life was more complicated than them figuring out where the assets are and what to do with them then I'd likely make one.

[Mr Dendrite]

Make a will and discuss it with the Executors and possibly the beneficiaries, so long as it’s not going to start a war. But at least the executors will have a clear idea of your intention. If it’s really contentious make a solicitor the executor. They’ll be immune to the whole but “but great aunt Ida’s watch was meant to come to me”.

Also make sure the executors know where your money is. Bank accounts savings, shares, pensions etc. It makes everything a lot easier for them.

I am executor to a family will at the moment. Having to deal with all the emotional stuff, funeral arrangements, sorting and clearing stuff then add the whole financial, IHT and probate world. The more information you provide in your will and the clear you make your instructions and wishes the easier it is for the executor to do what you wanted with your estate!

[Flooble]

I have had to deal with a handful either directly or indirectly (I suppose it comes with age, sadly) some with and some without wills.

I would not say that I was aware of the intestacy really costing much more than the "normal" one.

There was a bit of hassle having to get a genealogist to search the family tree and it's possible the missing will insurance might have been a bit higher (hard to know really - it's like discussing whether the insurance for my MR2 was higher than the insurance for my Boxster ... different times, different cars, different values; who's to say if the intestacy made any difference to the premium). I suppose the solicitor may have jacked up their fees a bit because of the extra hassle (again, hard to compare, but we are not talking about one estate being a few thousand in fees and one being tens of thousands, if that helps). So on an estate of the size you mention I don't think any extra fees are really going to be noticeable. Timelines seemed about the same, maybe a few months' difference waiting for things to be advertised, which was neither here nor there really when there are houses to dispose of.

Realistically if the distribution in the will would be per intestate rules anyway I think the primary benefit is not going to be financial, it's going to be massively (*massively*) less hassle for the executor. No need to notify Bona Vacantia and then gather all the documentation to put a claim in; no need to be extra careful with the execution to ensure every beneficiary is found and allocated. No arguments with people who feel entitled that "the law says X so I am really sorry that you were told you would be getting Y". Most importantly knowing that you are doing exactly what the deceased wanted and nothing is overlooked.

However, having said that, if it was me I would just keep out of it. Whichever person doesn't get what they feel they were entitled to may feel that it's "your fault" for pushing the deceased to make a will. If you don't expect to be lumbered with being an executor (seems unlikely as you say you are a friend not a relative) then, with a degree of sadness, I would say let it be somebody else's problem. I have seen more grief over people's wills (and lack of) than any other family matter (and I use the word "grief" deliberately as the people causing the trouble seemed to have very little grief in the sense you would expect). If you can stay out of it I would urge you to do so!

[Wacky Racer]

Where there's a will there's a relative.

[REM2112]

You die. Your spouse remarries. He or she dies. Now someone you don't yet know, and may not care that much about your children has your money. Get a will.

[BlackTails]

Taita said:

Hello,

A family friend doesn't have a will, but has some fairly complex financial circumstances. Married with two kids, no family strife etc.

Rough assets are circa 800k split over three properties (two UK, one Europe) and significant Cash / ISA holdings across a significant number of institutions.

I understand that if they were to die intestate, then it will roughly follow this flowchart here - https://www.pearsonlegal.co.uk/site/individuals/in... which I believe is actually roughly along the lines of her wishes.

Would someone be able to detail the benefits of creating a will in her situation as I'm not hugely familiar with the details. I believe there is plenty of evidence that intestate deaths are significantly more expensive to 'execute' as well as more emotionally difficult for all involved.

Thanks!

Check the intestacy rules of the country where the European property is situated. That will be dealt with accordingly to the law of the place of the property, and not English law. Your friend needs a will in England to deal with her English assets and a will that will be recognised under the law of the country where her European property is that deals with that property.

[Taita]

BlackTails said:

Taita said:

Hello,

A family friend doesn't have a will, but has some fairly complex financial circumstances. Married with two kids, no family strife etc.

Rough assets are circa 800k split over three properties (two UK, one Europe) and significant Cash / ISA holdings across a significant number of institutions.

I understand that if they were to die intestate, then it will roughly follow this flowchart here - https://www.pearsonlegal.co.uk/site/individuals/in... which I believe is actually roughly along the lines of her wishes.

Would someone be able to detail the benefits of creating a will in her situation as I'm not hugely familiar with the details. I believe there is plenty of evidence that intestate deaths are significantly more expensive to 'execute' as well as more emotionally difficult for all involved.

Thanks!

Check the intestacy rules of the country where the European property is situated. That will be dealt with accordingly to the law of the place of the property, and not English law. Your friend needs a will in England to deal with her English assets and a will that will be recognised under the law of the country where her European property is that deals with that property.

A good point, thank you. I think from conversation they have a solicitor / will in the country, so hopefully that side of things is dealt with.

[Carbon Sasquatch]

REM2112 said:

You die. Your spouse remarries. He or she dies. Now someone you don't yet know, and may not care that much about your children has your money. Get a will.

My spouse has made pretty good choices so far - marrying me & staying married.

I'd be just as worried about my kids making poor relationship choices....

The default rules seem OK to me - but I have somewhat vanilla family relationships. I guess I could put myself out & make a will - then again, maybe one of my kids who will benefit can do the work once I'm dead......

I do know that the right answer is to make a will, but that requires effort and active decision making.

[HootersGsy]

Carbon Sasquatch said:

My spouse has made pretty good choices so far - marrying me & staying married.

I'd be just as worried about my kids making poor relationship choices....

The default rules seem OK to me - but I have somewhat vanilla family relationships. I guess I could put myself out & make a will - then again, maybe one of my kids who will benefit can do the work once I'm dead......

I do know that the right answer is to make a will, but that requires effort and active decision making.

There are so many variables to consider. I've sat down and mapped out the various different combinations in which the members of my family could die (i.e. me alone, me and my wife, me and my wife plus one of the kids, me and my wife plus both kids etc.) to try and make sure that people are looked after properly in all circumstances. You don't say but if your children are below 18 who would you want to be their legal guardian if you and your wife both died in an accident? Who would you trust with your money to ensure the children were looked after and wouldn't spend it on themselves etc. What happens if you suffer a mental decline and are no longer mentally capable, who would you appoint as a POA in that situation?

It's certainly more than a 5 minute job but in my opinion, one worth doing properly and once you've mapped this all out it's quite easy to give to a solicitor to write up into a will.

[fat80b]

HootersGsy said:

You don't say but if your children are below 18 who would you want to be their legal guardian if you and your wife both died in an accident? Who would you trust with your money to ensure the children were looked after and wouldn't spend it on themselves etc.

This - What do you want to happen to the kids should you/partner die/become incapacitated but the kids don't etc.

It's not just financially how do you provide for them before and after they are 18, you also want to cover who gets guardianship and maybe access to some of the money to sort out a house to look after them in etc.

There are lots of corner cases (although it sounds like the OP setup is fairly straightforward) - e.g. if not married there is a car crash hypothetical where you both die, but technically one has to die before the other and money assets move from one to the other and then onwards. Depending on who dies first can have a significant influence on the outcome.

[chip*]

HootersGsy said:

Carbon Sasquatch said:

My spouse has made pretty good choices so far - marrying me & staying married.

I'd be just as worried about my kids making poor relationship choices....

The default rules seem OK to me - but I have somewhat vanilla family relationships. I guess I could put myself out & make a will - then again, maybe one of my kids who will benefit can do the work once I'm dead......

I do know that the right answer is to make a will, but that requires effort and active decision making.

There are so many variables to consider. I've sat down and mapped out the various different combinations in which the members of my family could die (i.e. me alone, me and my wife, me and my wife plus one of the kids, me and my wife plus both kids etc.) to try and make sure that people are looked after properly in all circumstances. You don't say but if your children are below 18 who would you want to be their legal guardian if you and your wife both died in an accident? Who would you trust with your money to ensure the children were looked after and wouldn't spend it on themselves etc. What happens if you suffer a mental decline and are no longer mentally capable, who would you appoint as a POA in that situation?

It's certainly more than a 5 minute job but in my opinion, one worth doing properly and once you've mapped this all out it's quite easy to give to a solicitor to write up into a will.

Yeah this.
Am married with 2 young toddlers with UK and oversea assets.
Have an UK and an oversea local Will.
Aware the named Executor is not obliged to act for me, but to keep him on board, I have a generous allowance included in my UK Will to cover his flights and expenses.
Hardest decision was agreeing on which family members I trust most to be legal guardians.
I have no idea when my day is up, but at least I sleep better knowing I have some plan in place to manage my financial affairs and the welfare of my two girls.

Edited by chip* on Tuesday 16th February 15:48

[A500leroy]

Heres some help.

My dad died last week, as i lived with him without a will id probably be homeless now.

[Far Cough]

You can right a will on a post it note provided you date it and get it witnessed. No excuse not to do one really if you care at all about where your estate will go

[trixical]

fat80b said:

This - What do you want to happen to the kids should you/partner die/become incapacitated but the kids don't etc.

It's not just financially how do you provide for them before and after they are 18, you also want to cover who gets guardianship and maybe access to some of the money to sort out a house to look after them in etc.

There are lots of corner cases (although it sounds like the OP setup is fairly straightforward) - e.g. if not married there is a car crash hypothetical where you both die, but technically one has to die before the other and money assets move from one to the other and then onwards. Depending on who dies first can have a significant influence on the outcome.

Agreed, it came up in conversation in my old job randomly one day that my boss (& his wife) didn't have a will, he didn't want to think about it as he'd be gone, she didn't want to think about it as it upset her. What eventually got through to him (though I bet hes still not done it) was what should happen to their son if the worst happened, & their wishes (guardianship & money management) were vastly different to what he himself could see happening if the situation were to arise.
I'm down as guardian for my cousins daughter in hers, some family members struggled to grasp this decision but didn't consider that it would provide better longevity & a wider network of support for decision making than if guardianship was given to the generation above.

eta: had a friend who died intestate who said he'd happily let it all (significant assets no children or partner) to the cats or dogs home & had a strained relationship with his only sister but refused to write a will, she got the lot & i'm sure hes kicking himself now (RIP RW1)

Edited by trixical on Tuesday 16th February 21:18

[troika]

Of course it depends on circumstances but even if you don’t think you need a will, you should absolutely put powers of attorney in place, so may as well do both at the same time.