Guitar Question.

[coppernorks]

What is the advantage, apart from maybe easing a better key for the singer and making life
difficult for those working out the chords, of dropping guitar pitch to F ?

Most of U2's early songs [ Helter Skelter, Bad, New Years Day ] are played a semitone below
concert pitch as are many of Thin Lizzy songs.

Case in point with Lizzy as Lynott just spoke the lyrics rather than attempting the task of actually singing.

[johnpsanderson]

Do you mean E flat tuning (rather than F), where the guitar is tuned Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Bb, Eb as opposed to EADGBE? Not sure of the rationale, but from memory it was the same with some Nirvana and Greenday albums, so seemingly not tied to a specific era.

[Mr_Yogi]

I watched a few videos by various YouTubers (and good players) who claim (on a Strat at least), Eb sounds better.

[GibsonSG]

Tends to be for two reasons - the reduced string tension of tuning to Eb or D allows you to use much thicker strings, the combination of the two giving you a much denser tone. Definitely makes a difference, I've used it when recording heavier songs.

The other (less common) reason is it can help singers who struggle with certain keys.

[cherryowen]

As others have mentioned, playing in Eb makes a "heavier" sound but also makes string bending a little easier.

Lowered / altered tunings were everywhere in the early 1990's, especially in the "grunge" scene. On Soundgarden's tune My Wave, Thayil's guitar was tuned (low to high) EEBBBB

[Turn7]

Potential numpty question, but is the string tension in this tuning only relative to Strats or LP as well ?

[singlecoil]

Turn7 said:

Potential numpty question, but is the string tension in this tuning only relative to Strats or LP as well ?

Les Pauls, most Gibsons in fact, use a 24 3/4" scale length, Fender have a 251/2" scale length.. For any given gauge and note, the Fender string tension will therefore be higher.

It's one of the reasons why Fenders sound better than Gibsons.

[thewarlock]

Most Fenders use 25.5 scale length.

My Jag is a 24" scale,and sounds great in its own way.

Loads of bands have used Eb standard over the years, Metallica, Greenday, Weezer, Alice in Chains, Hendrix, Thin Lizzy, SRV, CCR, Blur, and many many more.

[gazza285]

singlecoil said:

Les Pauls, most Gibsons in fact, use a 24 3/4" scale length, Fender have a 251/2" scale length.. For any given gauge and note, the Fender string tension will therefore be higher.

It's one of the reasons why Fenders sound better than Gibsons.

You mean sounds different to a Gibson.

Plenty of Gibsons have had 25 & 1/2” scale length, and plenty of Fenders have had a 24 & 3/4” scale length.

[singlecoil]

gazza285 said:

singlecoil said:

Les Pauls, most Gibsons in fact, use a 24 3/4" scale length, Fender have a 251/2" scale length.. For any given gauge and note, the Fender string tension will therefore be higher.

It's one of the reasons why Fenders sound better than Gibsons.

You mean sounds different to a Gibson.

Plenty of Gibsons have had 25 & 1/2” scale length, and plenty of Fenders have had a 24 & 3/4” scale length.

There are exceptions to every rule, and what I meant was what I said.

[Turn7]

singlecoil said:

Turn7 said:

Potential numpty question, but is the string tension in this tuning only relative to Strats or LP as well ?

Les Pauls, most Gibsons in fact, use a 24 3/4" scale length, Fender have a 251/2" scale length.. For any given gauge and note, the Fender string tension will therefore be higher.

It's one of the reasons why Fenders sound better than Gibsons.

[GibsonSG]

Oh blimey, we now have the guitar equivalent of the Civic Type R versus Golf Clubsport thread!

We all know that Gibsons sound best, and those with P90's best of all

[Turn7]

GibsonSG said:

Oh blimey, we now have the guitar equivalent of the Civic Type R versus Golf Clubsport thread!

We all know that Gibsons sound best, and those with P90's best of all

[Mave]

Turn7 said:

GibsonSG said:

Oh blimey, we now have the guitar equivalent of the Civic Type R versus Golf Clubsport thread!

We all know that Gibsons sound best, and those with P90's best of all

I think we all know that's not the case when there's a Tele with P90s in the room

[GibsonSG]

I do love a good Tele, lucky enough to have had a couple of decent ones. My P90 SG TV (the thick body 1960 model, not the classic SG shape) is surprisingly Tele-like.

Considering what I said earlier about Gibsons I'm not a humbucker LP fan at all....

[Turn7]

Mave said:

Turn7 said:

GibsonSG said:

Oh blimey, we now have the guitar equivalent of the Civic Type R versus Golf Clubsport thread!

We all know that Gibsons sound best, and those with P90's best of all

I think we all know that's not the case when there's a Tele with P90s in the room

I had an Epi Classic player Tele , that had P90's......sounded great but I just prefer the feel of an LP......

[gazza285]

singlecoil said:

gazza285 said:

singlecoil said:

Les Pauls, most Gibsons in fact, use a 24 3/4" scale length, Fender have a 251/2" scale length.. For any given gauge and note, the Fender string tension will therefore be higher.

It's one of the reasons why Fenders sound better than Gibsons.

You mean sounds different to a Gibson.

Plenty of Gibsons have had 25 & 1/2” scale length, and plenty of Fenders have had a 24 & 3/4” scale length.

There are exceptions to every rule, and what I meant was what I said.

So edgy.

[drab]

GibsonSG said:

Tends to be for two reasons - the reduced string tension of tuning to Eb or D allows you to use much thicker strings, the combination of the two giving you a much denser tone. Definitely makes a difference, I've used it when recording heavier songs.

The other (less common) reason is it can help singers who struggle with certain keys.

Have you watched some of the recent videos on YouTube about using lighter gauge strings? I think it's surprised a few people, myself included! I mostly play heavy(ish) material and have gone from using a mixed 9/10 set to using mostly 8s and 7s....

Rick Beato's vid on it is probably the best one

[GibsonSG]

I haven't seen that, but will definitely watch some. I tend to use the 9 - 46 hybrid sets that you mention at present.

I don't feel a need to go lighter but I'll be really interested to hear a counterpoint to the normally held views on this.

[HighwayToHull]

With a name like Singlecoil, surely you all realised he'd be biased?