New van running costs
Discussion
This deal got shared on a site I go on and at first glance it looked quite good.
https://leasing.com/independent-brokers/vertu-leas...
At the moment we have a Citroen Dispatch 1.6 diesel, we get about 140 miles to £20 and thats with a load of crap in ther back of it. We put about £40 a week in it which is £200 a month.
I'm new to all this EV stuff but looking at the specs it says
NEDC Electricity Consumption kWh/100 km152
Does that mean it uses 152 kWh for every 100km driven? thats about 60 miles, standard rate electricity is about 15p a kWh so it would cost £22 to drive 60 miles. Surely I'm reading this wrong, even if you got the electric for half price we would still be in the same boat fuel costs wise but have a £200 per month bill to pay for the lease as well and then still not own it at the end of it. Where is the attraction?
https://leasing.com/independent-brokers/vertu-leas...
At the moment we have a Citroen Dispatch 1.6 diesel, we get about 140 miles to £20 and thats with a load of crap in ther back of it. We put about £40 a week in it which is £200 a month.
I'm new to all this EV stuff but looking at the specs it says
NEDC Electricity Consumption kWh/100 km152
Does that mean it uses 152 kWh for every 100km driven? thats about 60 miles, standard rate electricity is about 15p a kWh so it would cost £22 to drive 60 miles. Surely I'm reading this wrong, even if you got the electric for half price we would still be in the same boat fuel costs wise but have a £200 per month bill to pay for the lease as well and then still not own it at the end of it. Where is the attraction?
The data states a 33kw battery and 230km to a full charge. If you knock off say 10% on the range, 30kwh of electric to do 200km. If you can time the charging right and get the cheap night rate when it's 5p per KWh you're paying £1.50 for 125 miles...or at normal prices, £4.50 for 125 miles.
I can assure you that there is no way that a Kangoo ZE will do much more than 120 miles on a full charge. More like 75 with a full load in winter. This is from experience of a company running two of them over a combined 40,000 miles over the past 4 years.
The Kangoo is very much a Gen 1 van and is being replaced at the end of this year with a completely new model, hence the deal on the old one. Take a look at the new Maxus eDeliver3 for the current 'best' small electric van. We've got some with the big 52.5Kw batteries and they are doing about 170 miles (as long as you keep off the motorways). Also got some e-Vivaro and e-Combo vans on order so we should be able to get some serious comparisons of them all at some stage.
The Kangoo is very much a Gen 1 van and is being replaced at the end of this year with a completely new model, hence the deal on the old one. Take a look at the new Maxus eDeliver3 for the current 'best' small electric van. We've got some with the big 52.5Kw batteries and they are doing about 170 miles (as long as you keep off the motorways). Also got some e-Vivaro and e-Combo vans on order so we should be able to get some serious comparisons of them all at some stage.
I think you're right about the decimal point.
15.2 KWh for 100Km is around 4 miles per kWh in the old lab test (NEDC), adjust that by 10 to 15% down and you get around 3.5 miles per kWh.
33 kWh x 3.5 per mile = 115 range
Say £4 to charge it (less on EV energy tariffs) and you have about 3p per mile.
Just remember no rapid charge, which won't worry some but may bother if you need to go further on the odd occasion.
15.2 KWh for 100Km is around 4 miles per kWh in the old lab test (NEDC), adjust that by 10 to 15% down and you get around 3.5 miles per kWh.
33 kWh x 3.5 per mile = 115 range
Say £4 to charge it (less on EV energy tariffs) and you have about 3p per mile.
Just remember no rapid charge, which won't worry some but may bother if you need to go further on the odd occasion.
As a European I might chime in here.
While L/100km is commonplace through Europe, I seldom see Kw/100km. More usually for an EV it's wh/km, which is a simple decimal point that moves.
My feeling is someone read the tech sheet of "152 wh/km" (which is very respectable) and filled it in in the "kwh/100km" box, instead of making it 15.2Kwh/100km.
I would be very interested to hear more about them when you can do a short writeup.
While L/100km is commonplace through Europe, I seldom see Kw/100km. More usually for an EV it's wh/km, which is a simple decimal point that moves.
My feeling is someone read the tech sheet of "152 wh/km" (which is very respectable) and filled it in in the "kwh/100km" box, instead of making it 15.2Kwh/100km.
Coolmover said:
I can assure you that there is no way that a Kangoo ZE will do much more than 120 miles on a full charge. More like 75 with a full load in winter. This is from experience of a company running two of them over a combined 40,000 miles over the past 4 years.
The Kangoo is very much a Gen 1 van and is being replaced at the end of this year with a completely new model, hence the deal on the old one. Take a look at the new Maxus eDeliver3 for the current 'best' small electric van. We've got some with the big 52.5Kw batteries and they are doing about 170 miles (as long as you keep off the motorways). Also got some e-Vivaro and e-Combo vans on order so we should be able to get some serious comparisons of them all at some stage.
The Kangoo is very much a Gen 1 van and is being replaced at the end of this year with a completely new model, hence the deal on the old one. Take a look at the new Maxus eDeliver3 for the current 'best' small electric van. We've got some with the big 52.5Kw batteries and they are doing about 170 miles (as long as you keep off the motorways). Also got some e-Vivaro and e-Combo vans on order so we should be able to get some serious comparisons of them all at some stage.
I would be very interested to hear more about them when you can do a short writeup.
ZesPak said:
As a European I might chime in here.
While L/100km is commonplace through Europe, I seldom see Kw/100km. More usually for an EV it's wh/km, which is a simple decimal point that moves.
My feeling is someone read the tech sheet of "152 wh/km" (which is very respectable) and filled it in in the "kwh/100km" box, instead of making it 15.2Kwh/100km.
I would be very interested to hear more about them when you can do a short writeup.
I have an identical van for work and have been the only driver of it over the last nine months and 10k miles. While L/100km is commonplace through Europe, I seldom see Kw/100km. More usually for an EV it's wh/km, which is a simple decimal point that moves.
My feeling is someone read the tech sheet of "152 wh/km" (which is very respectable) and filled it in in the "kwh/100km" box, instead of making it 15.2Kwh/100km.
Coolmover said:
I can assure you that there is no way that a Kangoo ZE will do much more than 120 miles on a full charge. More like 75 with a full load in winter. This is from experience of a company running two of them over a combined 40,000 miles over the past 4 years.
The Kangoo is very much a Gen 1 van and is being replaced at the end of this year with a completely new model, hence the deal on the old one. Take a look at the new Maxus eDeliver3 for the current 'best' small electric van. We've got some with the big 52.5Kw batteries and they are doing about 170 miles (as long as you keep off the motorways). Also got some e-Vivaro and e-Combo vans on order so we should be able to get some serious comparisons of them all at some stage.
The Kangoo is very much a Gen 1 van and is being replaced at the end of this year with a completely new model, hence the deal on the old one. Take a look at the new Maxus eDeliver3 for the current 'best' small electric van. We've got some with the big 52.5Kw batteries and they are doing about 170 miles (as long as you keep off the motorways). Also got some e-Vivaro and e-Combo vans on order so we should be able to get some serious comparisons of them all at some stage.
I would be very interested to hear more about them when you can do a short writeup.
In the warm spring and summer weather last year, it was showing a range of around 160 miles after a full charge overnight. I'd say an actual 130 to 140 was more realistic.
However, it hates the cold weather and has been consistently showing a range of 80 miles or so for the last couple of months when the temperature has around zero degrees. Last Thursday was lowest yet at 72 miles and actually only managed just over 60. It was -9 degrees though.
It's warmed up a bit this week and the range is back up to around 100 miles.
Two other things to consider. It's slow, 0 to 60 is over 20 seconds. It's fine around town up to about 40mph but then slows considerably. Dual carriageways are motorways are doable but I usually stick to around 60mph or so to stay out of the way of the trucks.
Secondly it can't handle any form of rapid charging, 7kwh is the maximum. Run it down to 10 miles or so and it'll need six hours or more to fully recharge.
Lastly, reliability has been so-so. The traction control unit went u/s one afternoon without warning. The unit was on back order and it was off the road at the main dealer for three weeks (during which time the passenger door was dented).
Having said all that, I'm quite attached to it. It's reasonably comfortable and rides far better than my previous Transit Connect.
It doesn't have to be this van for us particularly, its just the first one I've seen that looks remotely viable as an investment, we could do with something a bit bigger if I'm honest.
Our dispatch is just about paid for now and we will own it outright, its a 2015 and we only paid £120 a month over 3 years with a £2K deposit. It has however now done 175k miles but runs perfect, its still in quite good nick too, mechanically sound and the bodywork is good.
It does cost the best part of £200 a month in fuel plus the road tax is quite hefty at well over £200 a year. It does look like though we could have a brand new electric van for more or less the cost of our monthly fuel bill, the only down side is I know they will stiff you on the damage when you return it at the end of the lease.
Not sure what is the best really, run ours until it falls to bits or drive round in something brand new, 75% of our work is local but we do get the odd job at the other end of the country though.
Our dispatch is just about paid for now and we will own it outright, its a 2015 and we only paid £120 a month over 3 years with a £2K deposit. It has however now done 175k miles but runs perfect, its still in quite good nick too, mechanically sound and the bodywork is good.
It does cost the best part of £200 a month in fuel plus the road tax is quite hefty at well over £200 a year. It does look like though we could have a brand new electric van for more or less the cost of our monthly fuel bill, the only down side is I know they will stiff you on the damage when you return it at the end of the lease.
Not sure what is the best really, run ours until it falls to bits or drive round in something brand new, 75% of our work is local but we do get the odd job at the other end of the country though.
We turn the vans in to refrigerated vans so we have a slightly different view on things. But we do drive them as standard vans
I firmly believe electric vans are for local and regional work at the moment. Within 2 or 3 years I’m sure we will have viable 300 mile range vans (in summer). These vans hate motorways and dual carriageways. The range plummets as soon as you drive above 50mph. They are designed for urban driving
Here’s my take on the current vans that we have experience of.
Kangoo - old glen1 technology. Very poor range in all conditions. Cheap to buy at the moment but new van will be launched soon to replace it.
eNV200 - still gen1 tech but a little better than the Kangoo. Great van overall. Used to be a lot cheaper to buy but the prices have crept up recently. Going to be replaced along with the Kangoo
Maxus eDeliver 3 - if you can get over the looks then a fantastic van. Double the range of a Kangoo. Only available as an electric van and designed from the ground up as an electric van. A little bit more expensive but with the big battery pack a you get a lot more for your money
E- Combo and e-Vivaro (and the Peugeot and Citroen versions) - I really think these could be the game changer. Well known brand and good technology in a cracking overall van. We haven’t received ours yet but happy to review once they land with us.
I firmly believe electric vans are for local and regional work at the moment. Within 2 or 3 years I’m sure we will have viable 300 mile range vans (in summer). These vans hate motorways and dual carriageways. The range plummets as soon as you drive above 50mph. They are designed for urban driving
Here’s my take on the current vans that we have experience of.
Kangoo - old glen1 technology. Very poor range in all conditions. Cheap to buy at the moment but new van will be launched soon to replace it.
eNV200 - still gen1 tech but a little better than the Kangoo. Great van overall. Used to be a lot cheaper to buy but the prices have crept up recently. Going to be replaced along with the Kangoo
Maxus eDeliver 3 - if you can get over the looks then a fantastic van. Double the range of a Kangoo. Only available as an electric van and designed from the ground up as an electric van. A little bit more expensive but with the big battery pack a you get a lot more for your money
E- Combo and e-Vivaro (and the Peugeot and Citroen versions) - I really think these could be the game changer. Well known brand and good technology in a cracking overall van. We haven’t received ours yet but happy to review once they land with us.
Surely Nissan must be due to update the ENV to 64kwh and add the new Leaf tech to it?
You can also upgrade the old ENVs to a double sized battery for £7k I think, gives it a real world range of about 160miles, still supports rapid charging etc.
ENVs were bullet proof for us, sold them at like 70k and all we ever did was change the tyres, never serviced them (there is nothing to do), never failed an MOT.
You can also upgrade the old ENVs to a double sized battery for £7k I think, gives it a real world range of about 160miles, still supports rapid charging etc.
ENVs were bullet proof for us, sold them at like 70k and all we ever did was change the tyres, never serviced them (there is nothing to do), never failed an MOT.
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