Diana, Buckingham Palace, & the Union Flag at half mast?
Discussion
This may be the wrong place, but given the people/institutions involved I thought I might as well ask here.
Did Buckingham Palace ever fly the Union Flag at half mast when Diana died?
Odd question to ask, but given I was 10 years old, and what I've seen on TV through documentaries etc, there is an event I swear I saw happen that never gets talked about. The absolute refusal of Buckingham Palace to fly the Union Flag at half mast in the days after Princess Diana died.
How I remember it, was that in the days after her death, Buckingham Palace never flew the flag at half mast, although (I think) other places did. Such as fire stations, council offices etc. There was a bit of public outcry about it, which seemed to get louder as the days went on. Then (maybe on the Wednesday? ) I'm watching ITN and the flag was lowered to half mast and the crowd cheered. But then, seconds later, it went straight back up and the crowds booed. I think there was something said that the public should just get on with it or some other rhetoric that fit with the not flying the flag thing.
That event never gets mentioned on various documentaries about the Royals and Diana in that period of time. So the older I've got, the more I've wondered whether I didn't remember it at all or whether it was some sort of Mandela effect?
Did Buckingham Palace ever fly the Union Flag at half mast when Diana died?
Odd question to ask, but given I was 10 years old, and what I've seen on TV through documentaries etc, there is an event I swear I saw happen that never gets talked about. The absolute refusal of Buckingham Palace to fly the Union Flag at half mast in the days after Princess Diana died.
How I remember it, was that in the days after her death, Buckingham Palace never flew the flag at half mast, although (I think) other places did. Such as fire stations, council offices etc. There was a bit of public outcry about it, which seemed to get louder as the days went on. Then (maybe on the Wednesday? ) I'm watching ITN and the flag was lowered to half mast and the crowd cheered. But then, seconds later, it went straight back up and the crowds booed. I think there was something said that the public should just get on with it or some other rhetoric that fit with the not flying the flag thing.
That event never gets mentioned on various documentaries about the Royals and Diana in that period of time. So the older I've got, the more I've wondered whether I didn't remember it at all or whether it was some sort of Mandela effect?
"The Queen has ordered the Royal Standard to be lowered from the Palace flagpole when she leaves to attend the funeral and the Union Flag will be flown at half-mast until midnight on Saturday. "This is a mark of respect for the Princess on the day of her funeral," said a Palace spokeswoman. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/dian...
Note - the Royal Standard is never flown half mast.
"Unlike the Union flag, the Royal Standard is never flown at half mast, even after the death of a monarch, as there is always a Sovereign on the throne."
https://www.royal.uk/royal-standard
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/dian...
Note - the Royal Standard is never flown half mast.
"Unlike the Union flag, the Royal Standard is never flown at half mast, even after the death of a monarch, as there is always a Sovereign on the throne."
https://www.royal.uk/royal-standard
AJL308 said:
It was one of the things I distinctly remember happening because there was lots of "noise" about it up until it was done. I couldn't recall whether it was the Union Flag or Royal Standard though but the post above has cleared that up.
From what I remember, people were really angry about the initial response from the palace, people were even booing outside the palace and then there was more of a reaction involving the flag etc. I think it was because the Queen was away or something so there want actually a flag flying maybe? I think people forget how bad relations had got between Diana and the royals and less popular the royal family were in general in the 90s. Things like the royal yacht going wasn't even a big deal.
Tony Blair had become king of Cool Britannia and could do what he wanted. I think afterwards I read he said something about regretting the royal yacht going and also the fox hunting ban not the Iraq war though obviously.
anonymoususer said:
sgtBerbatov said:
I understand about the Royal Standard not being flown at half mast or when herself is indoors, but it's the moment when the flag was lowered for a moment then raised back up? Did that happen?
Not that I recallIts (was) either the Royal Standard or nothing, and the Royal Standard must never be flown at half mast.
The Queen had to order the rules to be changed.
red_slr said:
Wasn't the main issue that the Union Flag was never actually flown at Buck House?
Its (was) either the Royal Standard or nothing, and the Royal Standard must never be flown at half mast.
The Queen had to order the rules to be changed.
This was it.Its (was) either the Royal Standard or nothing, and the Royal Standard must never be flown at half mast.
The Queen had to order the rules to be changed.
The protocol was that the Royal Standard was flown when HMQ was in residence, and no flag was flown when she wasn't. And for reasons of symbolism and flag etiquette the Royal Standard cannot be flown at half-mast.
Since the royal family was at Balmoral the flagpole at Buckingham Palace was empty. The Union Jack had never been flown there and there was no protocol for it to do so.
It was a collision between the older world of tradition and formalities and the new world of Cool Britannia, the People's Princess and the changing British character that the event seemed to bring into focus. Buckingham Palace having virtually the only flagpole in London that wasn't flying a flag at half mast (or anything at all) made the monarchy seem cold and out of touch. Same when the family returned to London, because the only reason anyone could give for not having a flag at half mast was 'tradition' and that symbolically the Royal Standard can never be used to mourn because it represents the monarch and the monarch is always alive. Again, it looked stuffy and remote.
Hence the workaround with the Union Jack being used whenever HMQ isn't in residence, so a flag that can, by the "rules", be flown at half mast is on the pole.
Frankly, I'm very glad I was abroad for the whole hysterical mess and by the time I was back in the country it was mostly over and done with.
2xChevrons said:
This was it.
The protocol was that the Royal Standard was flown when HMQ was in residence, and no flag was flown when she wasn't. And for reasons of symbolism and flag etiquette the Royal Standard cannot be flown at half-mast.
Since the royal family was at Balmoral the flagpole at Buckingham Palace was empty. The Union Jack had never been flown there and there was no protocol for it to do so.
It was a collision between the older world of tradition and formalities and the new world of Cool Britannia, the People's Princess and the changing British character that the event seemed to bring into focus. Buckingham Palace having virtually the only flagpole in London that wasn't flying a flag at half mast (or anything at all) made the monarchy seem cold and out of touch. Same when the family returned to London, because the only reason anyone could give for not having a flag at half mast was 'tradition' and that symbolically the Royal Standard can never be used to mourn because it represents the monarch and the monarch is always alive. Again, it looked stuffy and remote.
Hence the workaround with the Union Jack being used whenever HMQ isn't in residence, so a flag that can, by the "rules", be flown at half mast is on the pole.
Frankly, I'm very glad I was abroad for the whole hysterical mess and by the time I was back in the country it was mostly over and done with.
That's how I remember it too, think there was even a cheer when it went down to half mast (if my memory serves me right it went up to the top then back down to half).The protocol was that the Royal Standard was flown when HMQ was in residence, and no flag was flown when she wasn't. And for reasons of symbolism and flag etiquette the Royal Standard cannot be flown at half-mast.
Since the royal family was at Balmoral the flagpole at Buckingham Palace was empty. The Union Jack had never been flown there and there was no protocol for it to do so.
It was a collision between the older world of tradition and formalities and the new world of Cool Britannia, the People's Princess and the changing British character that the event seemed to bring into focus. Buckingham Palace having virtually the only flagpole in London that wasn't flying a flag at half mast (or anything at all) made the monarchy seem cold and out of touch. Same when the family returned to London, because the only reason anyone could give for not having a flag at half mast was 'tradition' and that symbolically the Royal Standard can never be used to mourn because it represents the monarch and the monarch is always alive. Again, it looked stuffy and remote.
Hence the workaround with the Union Jack being used whenever HMQ isn't in residence, so a flag that can, by the "rules", be flown at half mast is on the pole.
Frankly, I'm very glad I was abroad for the whole hysterical mess and by the time I was back in the country it was mostly over and done with.
I disagree about the hysteria though - everyone I know was in the "that's a shame, she wasn't very old and left 2 young boys behind" then got on with their lives without much more thought. The media really got the mood of the nation wrong with that so what's getting written in the history books just wasn't what the public were feeling. There was a documentary about it a few years back, the best bit of footage was people waiting for Diana's coffin to be driven past all cheering and laughing when a police horse went for a wee. Obviously went quiet and respectful when the coffin went past, but the people crying their eyes out on TV were in the tiny minority.
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