2013 Cayenne water sloshing and wet footwell
Discussion
Hi all
I've got a significant amount of water in the passenger footwell (UK left side). There's also sloshing sound which sounds like around the passenger door area, or under the footwell, maybe the sills?
So I've cleared the front drains (black rubber nipples), but it was dry and clear. I tested the flow of water, thinking it was blocked up further back, but water flowed out freely.
I've tried the HVAC exit point under the glovebox, removing the rubber tube (and that clamp!), but no water flowed out.
Any thoughts on what to try next? If there is an exit point for the sills, I'd love to know. There is one for the older Cayenne and I've seen the video of someone poking a screwdriver and water flows out.. but no apparent exit point for the 2013 Cayenne.
I've got a significant amount of water in the passenger footwell (UK left side). There's also sloshing sound which sounds like around the passenger door area, or under the footwell, maybe the sills?
So I've cleared the front drains (black rubber nipples), but it was dry and clear. I tested the flow of water, thinking it was blocked up further back, but water flowed out freely.
I've tried the HVAC exit point under the glovebox, removing the rubber tube (and that clamp!), but no water flowed out.
Any thoughts on what to try next? If there is an exit point for the sills, I'd love to know. There is one for the older Cayenne and I've seen the video of someone poking a screwdriver and water flows out.. but no apparent exit point for the 2013 Cayenne.
I have a 2013 Cayenne which had the same issue. It was, as you suspect, the HVAC drain. I had to take the wheel arch liner partially out to get at the drain from the bottom. I also took the glove box out (US car) to go from the top. It has happened a couple of times now. On one occasion it splashed onto my bare (flip flop) foot.
Not had the pano one ... yet. Matter of time though.
Not had the pano one ... yet. Matter of time though.
I think I need to drain the sills but there's only one video on youtube which isn't clear at all...
https://youtu.be/XnOZBsYWH9s
..does anyone know how to do this?
Also if it's not the front cowels or the HVAC (the 2 major causes) I don't know what's causing the water to leak into the cabin.. really frustrating
https://youtu.be/XnOZBsYWH9s
..does anyone know how to do this?
Also if it's not the front cowels or the HVAC (the 2 major causes) I don't know what's causing the water to leak into the cabin.. really frustrating
Watched the video...... is he smashing something through the floor!??
The underside of the outer sills have drain bungs - they have a neat ball valve arrangement inside them that allows water out but not back in (when wading for example); unfortunately they can block with general dirt or even wax from the corrosion protection at build.
Remove the sill trims underneath the car and expose the bungs; remove them and either replace them or clean them out. Generally; the wet areas will be fine - but when they fill they tend to breach into dry areas and cause issues
The underside of the outer sills have drain bungs - they have a neat ball valve arrangement inside them that allows water out but not back in (when wading for example); unfortunately they can block with general dirt or even wax from the corrosion protection at build.
Remove the sill trims underneath the car and expose the bungs; remove them and either replace them or clean them out. Generally; the wet areas will be fine - but when they fill they tend to breach into dry areas and cause issues
Stop!
It's probably water in the gap between the bulkhead and engine bay. If the drains there are blocked, this space fills up and then starts coming into the car.
The design of the Cayenne is such that water runs down the windscreen into a space behind the engine bay that has two drains at the bottom. If these are blocked (usually with leaves) it fills up, then eventually the water starts coming into the car through the bulkhead holes for the wiring/heating matrix. Before then you can hear it sloshing about when you drive along, as you're effectively carrying around an open tank of water.
Our old V6 Cayenne did this, and when the water came in it ran under the seats, flooding the interor and ruining the electrics. About £20k of insurance claim later (electrics, wiring, carpets, etc) it was handed back with an explanation to check these drains every few months (which was a bit rich, as it had just been in for a service that should have cleared these).
If you take off the plastic at the bottom of the windscreen you can see it. The drains have rubber grommets in them, i had these modified to create a bigger hole and it needed doing less. Really poor design, unfortunately.
It's probably water in the gap between the bulkhead and engine bay. If the drains there are blocked, this space fills up and then starts coming into the car.
The design of the Cayenne is such that water runs down the windscreen into a space behind the engine bay that has two drains at the bottom. If these are blocked (usually with leaves) it fills up, then eventually the water starts coming into the car through the bulkhead holes for the wiring/heating matrix. Before then you can hear it sloshing about when you drive along, as you're effectively carrying around an open tank of water.
Our old V6 Cayenne did this, and when the water came in it ran under the seats, flooding the interor and ruining the electrics. About £20k of insurance claim later (electrics, wiring, carpets, etc) it was handed back with an explanation to check these drains every few months (which was a bit rich, as it had just been in for a service that should have cleared these).
If you take off the plastic at the bottom of the windscreen you can see it. The drains have rubber grommets in them, i had these modified to create a bigger hole and it needed doing less. Really poor design, unfortunately.
@gd.. thanks for the tip but as I was saying above (not very clearly), I’d checked those drains and the water runs freely out.. I did also clean the passenger side one out myself anyway and there was some debris in there but not much.. so I don’t know what’s causing the water ingress.. so other than those two front drains or a leaking HVAC, what else could it be? Maybe the sunroof drains?
@pope ..he’s removed the plastic trim between the carpet and sill, then punched out the rubber bung from above.. rather than remove the plastic trim from underneath and clear the bings from below.
I’m not sure which is easier but I’ll try the trim from underneath as it has screws. Getting at them from above and removing carpet trim looks tricky as it’s clamped down with clips which might break..
Still not worked out how the water is getting in though.. the £20k electrics bill is rather scary.. how did insurance cover that @gd ?
I’m not sure which is easier but I’ll try the trim from underneath as it has screws. Getting at them from above and removing carpet trim looks tricky as it’s clamped down with clips which might break..
Still not worked out how the water is getting in though.. the £20k electrics bill is rather scary.. how did insurance cover that @gd ?
I had exactly the same problem.
This video shows how to clear all the drain holes, my problem was the first one he clears in the video... the one behind the wheel arch liners.
Mine were both backed right up, several litres drained out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0WSgpniOgYA
This video shows how to clear all the drain holes, my problem was the first one he clears in the video... the one behind the wheel arch liners.
Mine were both backed right up, several litres drained out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0WSgpniOgYA
Sorry, I missed your earlier point about the drains.
There are a few more as stated above, the car seems to be designed to allow water to flow around the structure and out of drains, which is useful until the drains block. We also had one in the wheel arch behind the liner, and another in the sill (which seems to collect water from the chassis somehow).
On the insurance, we put in a claim for storm damage, which the broker guided us through, as it was rainwater that did the damage to the car. They paid out, which was good. It was Admiral.
There are a few more as stated above, the car seems to be designed to allow water to flow around the structure and out of drains, which is useful until the drains block. We also had one in the wheel arch behind the liner, and another in the sill (which seems to collect water from the chassis somehow).
On the insurance, we put in a claim for storm damage, which the broker guided us through, as it was rainwater that did the damage to the car. They paid out, which was good. It was Admiral.
Hi all.. and thanks for the replies..
Ok so as mentioned I’d already checked the windscreen drains behind the wheel arches and the HVAC outlet pipe in the front footwell, both being fine.
..so the problem was actually the sunroof drain.. I parked the car on a camber and poured some water into the sunroof lip and I could see the water struggling to drain away.. some overflowed and came down the A-pillar then into the footwell, I could see it leaking in the front of the passenger doorframe. Having been warned on the fragility of the drain hoses I used a long length of plastic strimmer string and pushed down about 1.2m on both sides. It’s running better but I’m inclined to also clear out from the exit point behind the front wheel arch but this means taking the liner out again..
So to sort out the actual water sloshing in the sills means getting the plug out from underneath.. I did try accessing the plugs from above as on that video (in my post above) but meant removing the carpet trim or passenger kickplate which doesn’t come up easily (you have to pull it up).. also I don’t want the plugs permanently out because water can get up and in if you go through a deep enough watercourse... so pinch Conf them out and losing them wasn’t appealing.
Having phoned an indie and facing a 4-6 week wait due to covid, I just got underneath and unscrewed the plastic sill coverings that run along the underside edge of the chassis.. I had been advised to be very careful pulling the coverings off as they push-fit into place with lugs which can easily break.. what I actually found was I could pull the trim down enough without removing it and, with a torch, could see the plug, just below the passenger kickplate. I had just enough room to get a screwdriver in and bingo, water flooding out of the sill - highly satisfying! ..I found the plug and pushed it back in (very fiddly with limited access) but all good now and car drying nicely.
Any more details needed, just PM me as it’s hard to describe.
Quite unbelievably, a little later that day I got the dreaded PCM failure, then stop/start failure on the dash warning system - could my electrics have rotted out?? ..the timing was maddening.. anyway, I restarted and the warnings didn’t reappear - that was yesterday so here’s hoping they don’t come back..
Ok so as mentioned I’d already checked the windscreen drains behind the wheel arches and the HVAC outlet pipe in the front footwell, both being fine.
..so the problem was actually the sunroof drain.. I parked the car on a camber and poured some water into the sunroof lip and I could see the water struggling to drain away.. some overflowed and came down the A-pillar then into the footwell, I could see it leaking in the front of the passenger doorframe. Having been warned on the fragility of the drain hoses I used a long length of plastic strimmer string and pushed down about 1.2m on both sides. It’s running better but I’m inclined to also clear out from the exit point behind the front wheel arch but this means taking the liner out again..
So to sort out the actual water sloshing in the sills means getting the plug out from underneath.. I did try accessing the plugs from above as on that video (in my post above) but meant removing the carpet trim or passenger kickplate which doesn’t come up easily (you have to pull it up).. also I don’t want the plugs permanently out because water can get up and in if you go through a deep enough watercourse... so pinch Conf them out and losing them wasn’t appealing.
Having phoned an indie and facing a 4-6 week wait due to covid, I just got underneath and unscrewed the plastic sill coverings that run along the underside edge of the chassis.. I had been advised to be very careful pulling the coverings off as they push-fit into place with lugs which can easily break.. what I actually found was I could pull the trim down enough without removing it and, with a torch, could see the plug, just below the passenger kickplate. I had just enough room to get a screwdriver in and bingo, water flooding out of the sill - highly satisfying! ..I found the plug and pushed it back in (very fiddly with limited access) but all good now and car drying nicely.
Any more details needed, just PM me as it’s hard to describe.
Quite unbelievably, a little later that day I got the dreaded PCM failure, then stop/start failure on the dash warning system - could my electrics have rotted out?? ..the timing was maddening.. anyway, I restarted and the warnings didn’t reappear - that was yesterday so here’s hoping they don’t come back..
After experiencing similar water ingress issues I'm posting my findings and fix so it may help someone else.
Having exhausted all of the online suggestions to no avail I went about an extensive internal and external trim strip to investigate further using a hose on the windscreen to check for water ingress.
My issue initially manifested itself as very heavy condensation on all glass first thing in the morning during winter. I eventually isolated the issue to water in the driver's footwell (UK car).
The issue was narrowed down to water entering the A pillar at the bottom corner of the windscreen. It was running down the inside of the A pillar, pooling at floor level and then eventually overflowing into the footwell via a hole 6 inches from the floor at the bottom of the door pillar.
With a hose on the windscreen, using a torch I could see water running down a seam inside the door pillar just below where the bonnet pull sits.
To access this first you need to remove the plastic panel that sits beneath the driver's side dashboard. There is one torx screw to remove near the centre then gently prise it down to release a couple of pushfit fixings towards each end of the panel. You then need to detach the wiring from the footwell light before removing the panel.
Next you need to remove the bonnet pull. To do this there is a push in clip at the rear of the handle where it pivots that secures it in place. With a small flat bladed screwdriver you need to prise this towards the bulkhead. Once removed the handle simply pulls off. Beneath where the handle sits is another torx screw to remove.
Next prise off the fuse panel cover on the RH end of the dashboard. Then prise off the plastic trim to the right of the fuse panel. This then allows you to lever out the door threshold strip using a plastic trim removal tool. Once all clips are out the panel can be removed.
You now have access to fold back the edge of the carpet to the right of the footwell. Beneath here behind some sound proofing material/underlay are two holes where you can see inside the door pillar. It is from the lower of these two holes where the water was flooding into the footwell.
Now you only have to do the above if you want to prove that's the issue you're experiencing. Alternatively you can just try the remedy I used to fix the problem which I will now explain.
Moving to the outside of the car there is a small rubber trim piece that is designed to spout water away from the A pillar and down into the water drainage area that appears behind the inner wheel arch cover. This is the one many posts mention that can become blocked with leaves and needs either regular clearing or the end cutting off to free up the flow.
To access this you will need to remove the cowel (scuttle) at the base of the windscreen. This will first require wiper removal (mark their positions with tape before removal to aide refitting). You will need a wiper removal tool to get these off or something that will fit under the wipers either side of the spline to prise them off. Beware of damaging your wipers if use the latter! To use a wiper removal tool I also had to release the gas strut on the bonnet by prising the spring clip at the end of the strut towards you with a small screwdriver. Then use something to prop the bonnet in a more upright position in order to provide better access to the driver's side wiper nut.
Next remove the rubber seal at the inside edge of the cowel, which then allows you to take out the removable panels at either end of the cowel.
The cowel should be gently prised out of its channel at the bottom of the windscreen with a plastic trim removal tool starting at one end. Remove the cowel. Clean out the channel and the mating edge of the cowel before refitting as it will be full of crud.
Next you need to prise away the bottom 10 inches of the trim panel down the A pillar at the edge of the windscreen. Be careful as this can snap. Start at the bottom using a plastic trim tool with a radius at the end so you can hook it under and prise near the inner edge (furthest from the windscreen). Work slowly up from the bottom.
You will now be able to see the rubber trim in the bottom corner of the windscreen. I assume from new these would have been sealed to the pillar. Mine had a large gap behind it so rather than running over the top and onto the spout section, water was running underneath and I assume dribbling down the door pillar and into a seam or hole near the top.
My fix was to peel back the rubber and clean both the underside of the rubber and the paintwork beneath. I then applied a black sealant (Stixall in my case) before pressing the rubber back into place. Wipe away any excess. I actually applied masking tape around the edges of the rubber to minimise excess sealant going onto the paintwork.
I left overnight to cure and tested today with a hose. No more water draining into the door pillar. Success!
Apologies for the longwinded explanation but I can assure you reading this will have taken you far less time than the two days I have spent stripping and investigating the car to reach this conclusion.
Having exhausted all of the online suggestions to no avail I went about an extensive internal and external trim strip to investigate further using a hose on the windscreen to check for water ingress.
My issue initially manifested itself as very heavy condensation on all glass first thing in the morning during winter. I eventually isolated the issue to water in the driver's footwell (UK car).
The issue was narrowed down to water entering the A pillar at the bottom corner of the windscreen. It was running down the inside of the A pillar, pooling at floor level and then eventually overflowing into the footwell via a hole 6 inches from the floor at the bottom of the door pillar.
With a hose on the windscreen, using a torch I could see water running down a seam inside the door pillar just below where the bonnet pull sits.
To access this first you need to remove the plastic panel that sits beneath the driver's side dashboard. There is one torx screw to remove near the centre then gently prise it down to release a couple of pushfit fixings towards each end of the panel. You then need to detach the wiring from the footwell light before removing the panel.
Next you need to remove the bonnet pull. To do this there is a push in clip at the rear of the handle where it pivots that secures it in place. With a small flat bladed screwdriver you need to prise this towards the bulkhead. Once removed the handle simply pulls off. Beneath where the handle sits is another torx screw to remove.
Next prise off the fuse panel cover on the RH end of the dashboard. Then prise off the plastic trim to the right of the fuse panel. This then allows you to lever out the door threshold strip using a plastic trim removal tool. Once all clips are out the panel can be removed.
You now have access to fold back the edge of the carpet to the right of the footwell. Beneath here behind some sound proofing material/underlay are two holes where you can see inside the door pillar. It is from the lower of these two holes where the water was flooding into the footwell.
Now you only have to do the above if you want to prove that's the issue you're experiencing. Alternatively you can just try the remedy I used to fix the problem which I will now explain.
Moving to the outside of the car there is a small rubber trim piece that is designed to spout water away from the A pillar and down into the water drainage area that appears behind the inner wheel arch cover. This is the one many posts mention that can become blocked with leaves and needs either regular clearing or the end cutting off to free up the flow.
To access this you will need to remove the cowel (scuttle) at the base of the windscreen. This will first require wiper removal (mark their positions with tape before removal to aide refitting). You will need a wiper removal tool to get these off or something that will fit under the wipers either side of the spline to prise them off. Beware of damaging your wipers if use the latter! To use a wiper removal tool I also had to release the gas strut on the bonnet by prising the spring clip at the end of the strut towards you with a small screwdriver. Then use something to prop the bonnet in a more upright position in order to provide better access to the driver's side wiper nut.
Next remove the rubber seal at the inside edge of the cowel, which then allows you to take out the removable panels at either end of the cowel.
The cowel should be gently prised out of its channel at the bottom of the windscreen with a plastic trim removal tool starting at one end. Remove the cowel. Clean out the channel and the mating edge of the cowel before refitting as it will be full of crud.
Next you need to prise away the bottom 10 inches of the trim panel down the A pillar at the edge of the windscreen. Be careful as this can snap. Start at the bottom using a plastic trim tool with a radius at the end so you can hook it under and prise near the inner edge (furthest from the windscreen). Work slowly up from the bottom.
You will now be able to see the rubber trim in the bottom corner of the windscreen. I assume from new these would have been sealed to the pillar. Mine had a large gap behind it so rather than running over the top and onto the spout section, water was running underneath and I assume dribbling down the door pillar and into a seam or hole near the top.
My fix was to peel back the rubber and clean both the underside of the rubber and the paintwork beneath. I then applied a black sealant (Stixall in my case) before pressing the rubber back into place. Wipe away any excess. I actually applied masking tape around the edges of the rubber to minimise excess sealant going onto the paintwork.
I left overnight to cure and tested today with a hose. No more water draining into the door pillar. Success!
Apologies for the longwinded explanation but I can assure you reading this will have taken you far less time than the two days I have spent stripping and investigating the car to reach this conclusion.
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