Is Political Dress Code Sexist?!
Discussion
Formal dress code be it in the political sphere as highlighted in the story below, but is much the same in business and formal social gatherings.
For men, formal is a suit, shirt and tie and that's it - For women it can be a dress, blouse and skirt with a much looser definition of what is being "Formally Dressed"! Is this in any way sexist, or am I just wrong?! Wouldn't be the first time.......!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56180675
For men, formal is a suit, shirt and tie and that's it - For women it can be a dress, blouse and skirt with a much looser definition of what is being "Formally Dressed"! Is this in any way sexist, or am I just wrong?! Wouldn't be the first time.......!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56180675
CeramicMX5ND2 said:
Formal dress code be it in the political sphere as highlighted in the story below, but is much the same in business and formal social gatherings.
For men, formal is a suit, shirt and tie and that's it - For women it can be a dress, blouse and skirt with a much looser definition of what is being "Formally Dressed"! Is this in any way sexist, or am I just wrong?! Wouldn't be the first time.......!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56180675
They just make rules for the rest of us. They don't have to comply with them. For men, formal is a suit, shirt and tie and that's it - For women it can be a dress, blouse and skirt with a much looser definition of what is being "Formally Dressed"! Is this in any way sexist, or am I just wrong?! Wouldn't be the first time.......!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56180675
Yes it is, but it is in most work places.
Male MP isn't allowed to wear a jumper, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSsbRcpOUd8
Male MP isn't allowed to wear a jumper, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSsbRcpOUd8
CaptainSlow said:
Yes it is, but it is in most work places.
Male MP isn't allowed to wear a jumper, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSsbRcpOUd8
I like the way JRM wears ridiculous outfits that look appalling to emphasise the fact that wearing "a suit and tie" does not equate to looking smart. Male MP isn't allowed to wear a jumper, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSsbRcpOUd8
CeramicMX5ND2 said:
Formal dress code be it in the political sphere as highlighted in the story below, but is much the same in business and formal social gatherings.
For men, formal is a suit, shirt and tie and that's it - For women it can be a dress, blouse and skirt with a much looser definition of what is being "Formally Dressed"! Is this in any way sexist, or am I just wrong?! Wouldn't be the first time.......!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56180675
Well it has to be smart for both sexes.For men, formal is a suit, shirt and tie and that's it - For women it can be a dress, blouse and skirt with a much looser definition of what is being "Formally Dressed"! Is this in any way sexist, or am I just wrong?! Wouldn't be the first time.......!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56180675
The women probably have more of an issue in that there isn't a set "uniform" to wear so the are probably more at a disadvantage. A man knows a shirt and suit is fine most occasions. He wont even have to wear a tie most of the time now if he doesn't want to.
Was going to write a rant about how once a H&S person told me off for wearing shorts, whilst wearing a skirt. And how at a golf club I'm a member women can have their shirts untucked whilst men must have them tucked in.
Then I realized it doesn't really matter. Of all the things to worry about it's a total nonissue.
Once we have sorted out the horrendous gender imbalance when it comes to suicide I'll care a bit more. Why are we not screaming that suicide is the biggest cause of death for young men? 17.2 deaths for males per 100,000. The murder rate in the UK is something like 1 per 100,000. So a man is 17 times more likely to die of suicide than by murder. Why are we not campaigning for more money for mental health support for young men?
Or how about the rampant sexual discrimination in the criminal 'juctice' system. Where a male is 3.4 times more likely to be sent to prison for the same crime?
Don't get me wrong... I am pretty liberal and would be considered a 'snow flake' - by many/most on here. But blokes generally do themselves no favors. We go on about stupid things like having to wear a suit and chose to ignore the massive issues. Generally, women can have a pretty torrid time in many ways. But they are smart enough to make this known and do something about it.
Then I realized it doesn't really matter. Of all the things to worry about it's a total nonissue.
Once we have sorted out the horrendous gender imbalance when it comes to suicide I'll care a bit more. Why are we not screaming that suicide is the biggest cause of death for young men? 17.2 deaths for males per 100,000. The murder rate in the UK is something like 1 per 100,000. So a man is 17 times more likely to die of suicide than by murder. Why are we not campaigning for more money for mental health support for young men?
Or how about the rampant sexual discrimination in the criminal 'juctice' system. Where a male is 3.4 times more likely to be sent to prison for the same crime?
Don't get me wrong... I am pretty liberal and would be considered a 'snow flake' - by many/most on here. But blokes generally do themselves no favors. We go on about stupid things like having to wear a suit and chose to ignore the massive issues. Generally, women can have a pretty torrid time in many ways. But they are smart enough to make this known and do something about it.
citizensm1th said:
It's a load of old b
ks that's what it is,
As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the bks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.
A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
Devil's advocate - what's wrong with a hoodie?ks that's what it is,As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the b
ks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
ETA Once you say that a "uniform" isn't necessary you can theoretically dress how you want.
citizensm1th said:
It's a load of old bks that's what it is,
As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the bks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.
A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
Why?ks that's what it is,As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the b
ks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
What difference does a person's attire make to whether they are able to do their job well or not?*
- Obviously there are cases where it does. Like astronauts on space walks.
Countdown said:
Devil's advocate - what's wrong with a hoodie?
ETA Once you say that a "uniform" isn't necessary you can theoretically dress how you want.
Maybe you are that stupid I don't know it would not the hoodie that would be inappropriate but the slogan written upon it. For a parliamentary session anyway. ETA Once you say that a "uniform" isn't necessary you can theoretically dress how you want.
CustardOnChips said:
citizensm1th said:
It's a load of old bks that's what it is,
As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the bks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.
A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
Why?ks that's what it is,As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the b
ks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
What difference does a person's attire make to whether they are able to do their job well or not?*
- Obviously there are cases where it does. Like astronauts on space walks.
That's exactly the point I am making in my view as long the attire is not chosen to deliberately offend the delicate flowers in parliament mp, s could wear a onesie as far as I care
citizensm1th said:
Countdown said:
Devil's advocate - what's wrong with a hoodie?
ETA Once you say that a "uniform" isn't necessary you can theoretically dress how you want.
Maybe you are that stupid I don't know it would not the hoodie that would be inappropriate but the slogan written upon it. For a parliamentary session anyway. ETA Once you say that a "uniform" isn't necessary you can theoretically dress how you want.
ks" inappropriate "for a parliamentary session"? is it ok for other circumstances? The short answer is "you don't know it's a rule YOU'VE just made up".That's the entire reason why we have informal/formal dress codes - so that people know what is/isn't considered acceptable in each environment.
That's also why it's stupid to say "it doesn't matter what clothes somebody wears as long as they can do the job" . It clearly DOES matter because not many organisations would accept people turning up in a mankini and flip-flops.
milkround said:
Was going to write a rant about how once a H&S person told me off for wearing shorts, whilst wearing a skirt. And how at a golf club I'm a member women can have their shirts untucked whilst men must have them tucked in.
Then I realized it doesn't really matter. Of all the things to worry about it's a total nonissue.
Once we have sorted out the horrendous gender imbalance when it comes to suicide I'll care a bit more. Why are we not screaming that suicide is the biggest cause of death for young men? 17.2 deaths for males per 100,000. The murder rate in the UK is something like 1 per 100,000. So a man is 17 times more likely to die of suicide than by murder. Why are we not campaigning for more money for mental health support for young men?
Or how about the rampant sexual discrimination in the criminal 'juctice' system. Where a male is 3.4 times more likely to be sent to prison for the same crime?
Don't get me wrong... I am pretty liberal and would be considered a 'snow flake' - by many/most on here. But blokes generally do themselves no favors. We go on about stupid things like having to wear a suit and chose to ignore the massive issues. Generally, women can have a pretty torrid time in many ways. But they are smart enough to make this known and do something about it.
If we measured attempted suicide rather than suicide the picture would probably show a much more equal split between male and female. Have to agree, based on waiting times, that mental health resources in this country are woefully inadequate.Then I realized it doesn't really matter. Of all the things to worry about it's a total nonissue.
Once we have sorted out the horrendous gender imbalance when it comes to suicide I'll care a bit more. Why are we not screaming that suicide is the biggest cause of death for young men? 17.2 deaths for males per 100,000. The murder rate in the UK is something like 1 per 100,000. So a man is 17 times more likely to die of suicide than by murder. Why are we not campaigning for more money for mental health support for young men?
Or how about the rampant sexual discrimination in the criminal 'juctice' system. Where a male is 3.4 times more likely to be sent to prison for the same crime?
Don't get me wrong... I am pretty liberal and would be considered a 'snow flake' - by many/most on here. But blokes generally do themselves no favors. We go on about stupid things like having to wear a suit and chose to ignore the massive issues. Generally, women can have a pretty torrid time in many ways. But they are smart enough to make this known and do something about it.
CustardOnChips said:
citizensm1th said:
It's a load of old bks that's what it is,
As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the bks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.
A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
Why?ks that's what it is,As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the b
ks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
What difference does a person's attire make to whether they are able to do their job well or not?*
- Obviously there are cases where it does. Like astronauts on space walks.
milkround said:
Was going to write a rant about how once a H&S person told me off for wearing shorts, whilst wearing a skirt. And how at a golf club I'm a member women can have their shirts untucked whilst men must have them tucked in.
Then I realized it doesn't really matter. Of all the things to worry about it's a total nonissue.
Once we have sorted out the horrendous gender imbalance when it comes to suicide I'll care a bit more. Why are we not screaming that suicide is the biggest cause of death for young men? 17.2 deaths for males per 100,000. The murder rate in the UK is something like 1 per 100,000. So a man is 17 times more likely to die of suicide than by murder. Why are we not campaigning for more money for mental health support for young men?
Or how about the rampant sexual discrimination in the criminal 'juctice' system. Where a male is 3.4 times more likely to be sent to prison for the same crime?
Don't get me wrong... I am pretty liberal and would be considered a 'snow flake' - by many/most on here. But blokes generally do themselves no favors. We go on about stupid things like having to wear a suit and chose to ignore the massive issues. Generally, women can have a pretty torrid time in many ways. But they are smart enough to make this known and do something about it.
I think I agree with your whole post which picks out some really important issues. Can I just check with one thing though since it's the subject of the opening post? Are dress-codes a "non-issue" because there shouldn't be any? Or should people not complain about dress codes? I lean towards the former by the way. Dress-codes should be minimal and shouldn't be sexist. Then I realized it doesn't really matter. Of all the things to worry about it's a total nonissue.
Once we have sorted out the horrendous gender imbalance when it comes to suicide I'll care a bit more. Why are we not screaming that suicide is the biggest cause of death for young men? 17.2 deaths for males per 100,000. The murder rate in the UK is something like 1 per 100,000. So a man is 17 times more likely to die of suicide than by murder. Why are we not campaigning for more money for mental health support for young men?
Or how about the rampant sexual discrimination in the criminal 'juctice' system. Where a male is 3.4 times more likely to be sent to prison for the same crime?
Don't get me wrong... I am pretty liberal and would be considered a 'snow flake' - by many/most on here. But blokes generally do themselves no favors. We go on about stupid things like having to wear a suit and chose to ignore the massive issues. Generally, women can have a pretty torrid time in many ways. But they are smart enough to make this known and do something about it.
Randy Winkman said:
I think I agree with your whole post which picks out some really important issues. Can I just check with one thing though since it's the subject of the opening post? Are dress-codes a "non-issue" because there shouldn't be any? Or should people not complain about dress codes? I lean towards the former by the way. Dress-codes should be minimal and shouldn't be sexist.
That's a really difficult question to answer. And not one which I'm probably smart enough to go into in a significant way. From a theoretical point of view, I can't see why how someone dresses really matters. What is considered smart in one place is considered scruffy in another. It's an objective fashion test set out to judge others. This is not only unhelpful - but which leads to overlooking talent because someone hasn't been taught to wear the 'right' thing. What's more, fashions do change, in a pretty startling way over time - which makes it all even more absurd.
However, that totally ignores the reality of the situation we are presented with. Wrongly we are judged on the way we dress. So most people chose to conform as a matter of convenience. And I can't blame them. I do the same to some degree. I think this pressure is felt more strongly by females which presents different problems. But I don't think we can ignore that you'd be putting yourself at a massive disadvantage in nearly all walks of life if you didn't choose to comply.
What I'm trying to say in a poor way is - the cost of going along with it isn't significant enough for it to be a problem for most people. By cost, I mean both financial and spiritual. It's really not so much of a hardship that I think it matters. If it does matter it's well far down the list of 'things'. It's up there with having to tell a policeman why you are going somewhere at the moment if pulled over.
But that's a lot of words that don't say a lot. What I meant in my post is that we should all look at what really matters. And I suppose what matters to each person is individual and personal. As a general rule I dislike a huge amount about our society. But I've been lucky enough to travel extensively so take the view that we are luckier than most in the world.
Countdown said:
citizensm1th said:
It's a load of old bks that's what it is,
As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the bks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.
A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
Devil's advocate - what's wrong with a hoodie?ks that's what it is,As long as said mp or for that matter any mp is sensibly dress I. E. Not sitting there in a never mind the b
ks hoodie I really do see what the fuss is about on a zoom call.A nice shirt and a sober jumper is more than suitable
ETA Once you say that a "uniform" isn't necessary you can theoretically dress how you want.
Many years ago a client told me off for coming to a meeting in a suit.
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