Cleaning up a Welsh long case clock
Discussion
So unfortunately I lost my great uncle last week but I’ve been lucky enough to inherit the family clock. Been a part of my life as long as I can remember.
Unfortunately it’s been bashed about a bit fitting it into the retirement bungalow (bit smaller/lower than the farmhouse it came out of) and hasn’t seen a clean in over a century I’d imagine.
Done a bit of Googling and the internet suggested everything from pastes to mild dish soap and water to absolutely not using water.
As it’s hardly in perfect condition anyway I’m going to tackle it with an ever so slightly damp cloth initially and see how I get on.
I do have some oak furniture land wax which I may inspect to see if it’s suitable (I gather nothing with silicon should be used).
So anyway, I’ve no idea if anyone will be remotely interested but here’s some pictures anyway of it stood precariously in my garage as I’m about to clean it. Any comments and advice are more than welcome.
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|https://thumbsnap.com/pRRtHmY5[/url]
Unfortunately it’s been bashed about a bit fitting it into the retirement bungalow (bit smaller/lower than the farmhouse it came out of) and hasn’t seen a clean in over a century I’d imagine.
Done a bit of Googling and the internet suggested everything from pastes to mild dish soap and water to absolutely not using water.
As it’s hardly in perfect condition anyway I’m going to tackle it with an ever so slightly damp cloth initially and see how I get on.
I do have some oak furniture land wax which I may inspect to see if it’s suitable (I gather nothing with silicon should be used).
So anyway, I’ve no idea if anyone will be remotely interested but here’s some pictures anyway of it stood precariously in my garage as I’m about to clean it. Any comments and advice are more than welcome.
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/pRRtHmY5[/url]For the woodwork, I'd just use a damp microfibre cloth to get rid of the worst of the dirt/mould, then a decent paste wax like Colron or Liberon.
It's an old clock, so keep the patina.
Don't do anything at all to the dial - very easy to rub off all the blackwork if you try cleaning it. You can see where this has already happened.
Chances are the movement (mechanism) will need some work. Running the clock dry and dirty will wear it out. Oiling a dirty clock will get it going for a while, but will wear it out even faster.
If it's clean (no black gunge where the pivots come through the plates), you can try a tiny drop of proper clock oil in the right places - pivot oil sinks, pallet faces, crutch, hammer wheel pins. The wheels and pinions (gear teeth) are supposed to run dry, so don't oil them.
Whatever you do, don't spray it with WD40, and don't dunk the whole thing in a bucket of petrol to try to clean it.
Even if you manage to get it going, please get it serviced properly in the not too distant future. These clocks really need to be stripped, cleaned, repaired and serviced every 10 years or so. Do this, and it'll last several more lifetimes.
If you decide to get the glass replaced, please don't use modern glass. It's too flat, and the reflections just don't look right.
Find an old picture with "wavy" glass, and get a glass company to cut it to size. You can buy hand-made restoration glass, but it's very expensive.
It's an old clock, so keep the patina.
Don't do anything at all to the dial - very easy to rub off all the blackwork if you try cleaning it. You can see where this has already happened.
Chances are the movement (mechanism) will need some work. Running the clock dry and dirty will wear it out. Oiling a dirty clock will get it going for a while, but will wear it out even faster.
If it's clean (no black gunge where the pivots come through the plates), you can try a tiny drop of proper clock oil in the right places - pivot oil sinks, pallet faces, crutch, hammer wheel pins. The wheels and pinions (gear teeth) are supposed to run dry, so don't oil them.
Whatever you do, don't spray it with WD40, and don't dunk the whole thing in a bucket of petrol to try to clean it.
Even if you manage to get it going, please get it serviced properly in the not too distant future. These clocks really need to be stripped, cleaned, repaired and serviced every 10 years or so. Do this, and it'll last several more lifetimes.
If you decide to get the glass replaced, please don't use modern glass. It's too flat, and the reflections just don't look right.
Find an old picture with "wavy" glass, and get a glass company to cut it to size. You can buy hand-made restoration glass, but it's very expensive.
Edited by clockworks on Saturday 6th March 18:57
clockworks said:
For the woodwork, I'd just use a damp microfibre cloth to get rid of the worst of the dirt/mould, then a decent paste wax like Colron or Liberon.
It's an old clock, so keep the patina.
Don't do anything at all to the dial - very easy to rub off all the blackwork if you try cleaning it. You can see where this has already happened.
Chances are the movement (mechanism) will need some work. Running the clock dry and dirty will wear it out. Oiling a dirty clock will get it going for a while, but will wear it out even faster.
If it's clean (no black gunge where the pivots come through the plates), you can try a tiny drop of proper clock oil in the right places - pivot oil sinks, pallet faces, crutch, hammer wheel pins. The wheels and pinions (gear teeth) are supposed to run dry, so don't oil them.
Whatever you do, don't spray it with WD40, and don't dunk the whole thing in a bucket of petrol to try to clean it.
Even if you manage to get it going, please get it serviced properly in the not too distant future. These clocks really need to be stripped, cleaned, repaired and serviced every 10 years or so. Do this, and it'll last several more lifetimes.
If you decide to get the glass replaced, please don't use modern glass. It's too flat, and the reflections just don't look right.
Find an old picture with "wavy" glass, and get a glass company to cut it to size. You can buy hand-made restoration glass, but it's very expensive.
Thanks for the reply, went gently at it with a damp sponge and that’s made a world of difference already. Did go through some of the patina initially in a generally unseen area but think I’ve got the hang of it now.It's an old clock, so keep the patina.
Don't do anything at all to the dial - very easy to rub off all the blackwork if you try cleaning it. You can see where this has already happened.
Chances are the movement (mechanism) will need some work. Running the clock dry and dirty will wear it out. Oiling a dirty clock will get it going for a while, but will wear it out even faster.
If it's clean (no black gunge where the pivots come through the plates), you can try a tiny drop of proper clock oil in the right places - pivot oil sinks, pallet faces, crutch, hammer wheel pins. The wheels and pinions (gear teeth) are supposed to run dry, so don't oil them.
Whatever you do, don't spray it with WD40, and don't dunk the whole thing in a bucket of petrol to try to clean it.
Even if you manage to get it going, please get it serviced properly in the not too distant future. These clocks really need to be stripped, cleaned, repaired and serviced every 10 years or so. Do this, and it'll last several more lifetimes.
If you decide to get the glass replaced, please don't use modern glass. It's too flat, and the reflections just don't look right.
Find an old picture with "wavy" glass, and get a glass company to cut it to size. You can buy hand-made restoration glass, but it's very expensive.
Edited by clockworks on Saturday 6th March 18:57
Thanks for the paste wax recommendation, it’s hard to know what’s what - this is not my world and was going to buy some beeswax lemon balm stuff so that’s useful to know.
Fortunately and unusually he actually spend a lot of time and money getting a local clockmaker to sort all the mechanism about a year ago. And then stopped it “so it didn’t wear out”.
This may have meant it’s dried out since but shouldn’t be as bad as it could be and should at least run and keep time, I’ll absolutely be getting it serviced properly at some point soon. I promise not to touch it with WD40.
Jury is still out on the glass, currently swinging toward originality but depends how it cleans up, the crack is currently quite obvious due to dirt ingress so may swap it eventually.
I’ll update with pictures as I go.
If it was done a year ago, it should be fine for quite a few years. Just standing there without it running won't cause any issues. Just get it serviced if the timekeeping goes off, the strike starts running slow, or it makes nasty noises. If it keeps running OK, just get it serviced in 8 or 9 years time.
Make sure that the lines are sitting on the barrels before you hang the weights, and let the clock run right down before winding it up. Might be a good idea to put a drop of oil on the crutch, where the brass pendulum block sits in the fork/loop.
Make sure that the lines are sitting on the barrels before you hang the weights, and let the clock run right down before winding it up. Might be a good idea to put a drop of oil on the crutch, where the brass pendulum block sits in the fork/loop.
clockworks said:
If it was done a year ago, it should be fine for quite a few years. Just standing there without it running won't cause any issues. Just get it serviced if the timekeeping goes off, the strike starts running slow, or it makes nasty noises. If it keeps running OK, just get it serviced in 8 or 9 years time.
Make sure that the lines are sitting on the barrels before you hang the weights, and let the clock run right down before winding it up. Might be a good idea to put a drop of oil on the crutch, where the brass pendulum block sits in the fork/loop.
Thank you that all sounds like superb advice.Make sure that the lines are sitting on the barrels before you hang the weights, and let the clock run right down before winding it up. Might be a good idea to put a drop of oil on the crutch, where the brass pendulum block sits in the fork/loop.
He might have snipped the strike shortly after having it re-instated however. Not sure I’ll be re-instating it either due to a wife who regularly does night shifts.
Doe you (or anyone else reading) have a suggestion as to what wood it is? Trying to decide which of those Colron/Liberon paste wax colours would be the best.
clockworks said:
It's not a good idea to run a rack strike clock without winding the strike train. It will eventually break the rack tail, and the clock might stop at about half 12. Better to muffle the hammer so that it runs, but doesn't ring the bell.
Just use neutral wax - no colour.
Ah, it’s been snipped for at least a decade or so, fixed, then snipped again. Might see if I can get it reinstated then. Thank you.Just use neutral wax - no colour.
Good luck with the clock. When my dad passed away the family clock came to me. A John Hamilton built in Glasgow 1750-1800. In the family at least generations if not since it was made. After my dad inherited it I don't remember it running. The sound takes me back to my grandparents farmhouse in the 1960s when the chimes would sound through the house at night.
I had it serviced by a local clockmaker. Aside from replacing parts and cleaning/oiling the mechanism he stripped the face and cleaned and reassembled. Apparently at some time in it's past someone had committed the cardinal sin of cleaning the facewith Brasso.
The funny thing was when I googled clockmakers the only local one I found turned out to be the plumber who installed my central heating 15 odd years ago. So only 3 miles to drop the clock at his workshop. His family had been clock and watch dealers and repairers going back to the 19thC but after quartz came along there was less and less call for his skills. So he ran a plumbing business alongside the watch and clock stuff part time.
What an Alladin's cave that was. Full of clocks waiting for repair or running under tests. The sound of the chimes is a real connection with the past.
https://vimeo.com/376007694
I had it serviced by a local clockmaker. Aside from replacing parts and cleaning/oiling the mechanism he stripped the face and cleaned and reassembled. Apparently at some time in it's past someone had committed the cardinal sin of cleaning the facewith Brasso.
The funny thing was when I googled clockmakers the only local one I found turned out to be the plumber who installed my central heating 15 odd years ago. So only 3 miles to drop the clock at his workshop. His family had been clock and watch dealers and repairers going back to the 19thC but after quartz came along there was less and less call for his skills. So he ran a plumbing business alongside the watch and clock stuff part time.
What an Alladin's cave that was. Full of clocks waiting for repair or running under tests. The sound of the chimes is a real connection with the past.
https://vimeo.com/376007694
irc said:
Good luck with the clock. When my dad passed away the family clock came to me. A John Hamilton built in Glasgow 1750-1800. In the family at least generations if not since it was made. After my dad inherited it I don't remember it running. The sound takes me back to my grandparents farmhouse in the 1960s when the chimes would sound through the house at night.
I had it serviced by a local clockmaker. Aside from replacing parts and cleaning/oiling the mechanism he stripped the face and cleaned and reassembled. Apparently at some time in it's past someone had committed the cardinal sin of cleaning the facewith Brasso.
The funny thing was when I googled clockmakers the only local one I found turned out to be the plumber who installed my central heating 15 odd years ago. So only 3 miles to drop the clock at his workshop. His family had been clock and watch dealers and repairers going back to the 19thC but after quartz came along there was less and less call for his skills. So he ran a plumbing business alongside the watch and clock stuff part time.
What an Alladin's cave that was. Full of clocks waiting for repair or running under tests. The sound of the chimes is a real connection with the past.
https://vimeo.com/376007694
What a fantastic clock and story, not seen one with a face like that before. Most old houses around here have a clock with a face style similar to mine, very popular in Wales but rapidly vanishing unfortunately as many don’t want them any more. I had it serviced by a local clockmaker. Aside from replacing parts and cleaning/oiling the mechanism he stripped the face and cleaned and reassembled. Apparently at some time in it's past someone had committed the cardinal sin of cleaning the facewith Brasso.
The funny thing was when I googled clockmakers the only local one I found turned out to be the plumber who installed my central heating 15 odd years ago. So only 3 miles to drop the clock at his workshop. His family had been clock and watch dealers and repairers going back to the 19thC but after quartz came along there was less and less call for his skills. So he ran a plumbing business alongside the watch and clock stuff part time.
What an Alladin's cave that was. Full of clocks waiting for repair or running under tests. The sound of the chimes is a real connection with the past.
https://vimeo.com/376007694
I don’t know when mine was built but there was a J (John) Thomas in pen-y-groes who lived 1838-1905 which would fit perhaps. Would love to know more about its history. As far as I’m aware it’s been in the family since new.
abucd4 said:
What a fantastic clock and story, not seen one with a face like that before. Most old houses around here have a clock with a face style similar to mine, very popular in Wales but rapidly vanishing unfortunately as many don’t want them any more.
I don’t know when mine was built but there was a J (John) Thomas in pen-y-groes who lived 1838-1905 which would fit perhaps. Would love to know more about its history. As far as I’m aware it’s been in the family since new.
I'm not that good at dating later longcase clocks, but I'd say your clock was made around 1830 to 1860.I don’t know when mine was built but there was a J (John) Thomas in pen-y-groes who lived 1838-1905 which would fit perhaps. Would love to know more about its history. As far as I’m aware it’s been in the family since new.
I've not seen that happen with the wax before. The grain must be very "open". Normally the grain is filled in with shellac (French polish) when the case was made, and the wax just sits on the surface.
A lint-free cotton cloth dampened with white spirit should remove the wax polish without affecting the original finish.
I wonder if that fabric was used to seal gaps in the backboard, to stop dust getting in? Backboards are generally of much lower quality than the rest of the case, and it's not unusual for them to shrink or split and have big gaps between the boards.
A lint-free cotton cloth dampened with white spirit should remove the wax polish without affecting the original finish.
I wonder if that fabric was used to seal gaps in the backboard, to stop dust getting in? Backboards are generally of much lower quality than the rest of the case, and it's not unusual for them to shrink or split and have big gaps between the boards.
clockworks said:
I'm not that good at dating later longcase clocks, but I'd say your clock was made around 1830 to 1860.
This list of old Scottish clockmakers has a John Hamilton Glasgow as 1750-1783.https://archive.org/stream/oldscottishclock00smitrich/oldscottishclock00smitrich_djvu.txt
Though it may be possible the John Hamilton clock was fitted into a later case?
Yes the backboard is very rough, totally different to the rest of the clock. Mid 1800s would be about right as I suspect my great grandparents inherited it early 1900s, so a generation before that would place it about then.
After a full days cleaning here it is reassembled in its new home. Left the glass for now, doesn’t bother me and adds to the character.
Thanks for the help clockworks.
After a full days cleaning here it is reassembled in its new home. Left the glass for now, doesn’t bother me and adds to the character.
Thanks for the help clockworks.
That's a good looking clock imo. My family had one similar until aged 8 or so I managed to bugga it up right royally. I'd like another one day when I'm settled down.
I have another mantle clock that's been in the family a long time, I paid an expert to sort it out: clean, lubricate, fix chimes not working, straighten bent pendulum and spring leaf type bits, wax, replace broken glass etc etc. It was well worth it to know that a family heirloom was back in peek condition again for another hundred years. I'd recommend it to you.
I have another mantle clock that's been in the family a long time, I paid an expert to sort it out: clean, lubricate, fix chimes not working, straighten bent pendulum and spring leaf type bits, wax, replace broken glass etc etc. It was well worth it to know that a family heirloom was back in peek condition again for another hundred years. I'd recommend it to you.
MikeStroud said:
That's a good looking clock imo. My family had one similar until aged 8 or so I managed to bugga it up right royally. I'd like another one day when I'm settled down.
I have another mantle clock that's been in the family a long time, I paid an expert to sort it out: clean, lubricate, fix chimes not working, straighten bent pendulum and spring leaf type bits, wax, replace broken glass etc etc. It was well worth it to know that a family heirloom was back in peek condition again for another hundred years. I'd recommend it to you.
Thank you I have another mantle clock that's been in the family a long time, I paid an expert to sort it out: clean, lubricate, fix chimes not working, straighten bent pendulum and spring leaf type bits, wax, replace broken glass etc etc. It was well worth it to know that a family heirloom was back in peek condition again for another hundred years. I'd recommend it to you.
Yes eventually I’ll likely get the glass fixed up just to give it some love.All the mechanism has been looked at and sorted recently, so I’m happy with that.
Turns out I’d been misinformed and much to my wife’s dismay the chime works perfectly! Looks like I’ll have to find a way to muffle that as it’s extremely loud, however charming it may be!
How did you ruin the family clock? I’m curious!
abucd4 said:
MikeStroud said:
That's a good looking clock imo. My family had one similar until aged 8 or so I managed to bugga it up right royally. I'd like another one day when I'm settled down.
I have another mantle clock that's been in the family a long time, I paid an expert to sort it out: clean, lubricate, fix chimes not working, straighten bent pendulum and spring leaf type bits, wax, replace broken glass etc etc. It was well worth it to know that a family heirloom was back in peek condition again for another hundred years. I'd recommend it to you.
Thank you I have another mantle clock that's been in the family a long time, I paid an expert to sort it out: clean, lubricate, fix chimes not working, straighten bent pendulum and spring leaf type bits, wax, replace broken glass etc etc. It was well worth it to know that a family heirloom was back in peek condition again for another hundred years. I'd recommend it to you.
Yes eventually I’ll likely get the glass fixed up just to give it some love.All the mechanism has been looked at and sorted recently, so I’m happy with that.
Turns out I’d been misinformed and much to my wife’s dismay the chime works perfectly! Looks like I’ll have to find a way to muffle that as it’s extremely loud, however charming it may be!
How did you ruin the family clock? I’m curious!
So my grandparents had a clock very similar to yours with moon phase etc, but a little taller. Being curious about how it worked I opened the front door and noticed it had a couple of very large iron weights suspended on steel (?) wires around various pulleys and the like. I decided to lift these weights up to see if I could as they were very large and heavy. I managed to lift them through the door but not for long as they were too heavy for me as a kid so I let them go in an uncontrolled way. The wires came off the pulleys and also off the drum (?) at the top and trapped themselves at the sides of the drums and so on. It would need to be dismantled to release them and never was so never ran again.
This and the motorbike are just a couple of many such family mysteries as to how they came to be.
Hah! What a shame, but also a great story!
ETA I never actually realised it was a moon phase clock until you just mentioned it ridiculously as there was no dial below the numbers, as a kid I thought it was decorative and never questioned myself. I have no idea how to read it, after a bit of googling I’m guessing the small dial below the hands relates to the big one at the top, and 15 is full moon I gather. No idea how to calibrate it - I guess that’s what the second winding thing is for!
ETA I never actually realised it was a moon phase clock until you just mentioned it ridiculously as there was no dial below the numbers, as a kid I thought it was decorative and never questioned myself. I have no idea how to read it, after a bit of googling I’m guessing the small dial below the hands relates to the big one at the top, and 15 is full moon I gather. No idea how to calibrate it - I guess that’s what the second winding thing is for!
Edited by abucd4 on Sunday 7th March 21:02
abucd4 said:
Hah! What a shame, but also a great story!
ETA I never actually realised it was a moon phase clock until you just mentioned it ridiculously as there was no dial below the numbers, as a kid I thought it was decorative and never questioned myself. I have no idea how to read it, after a bit of googling I’m guessing the small dial below the hands relates to the big one at the top, and 15 is full moon I gather. No idea how to calibrate it - I guess that’s what the second winding thing is for!
I'm no horologist but I think the second winder is for the chimes. On ours the left hand winder was for time (ie. the clock) and the right hand one for the chimes. Thus if you don't wind the right hand side you get no chimes.ETA I never actually realised it was a moon phase clock until you just mentioned it ridiculously as there was no dial below the numbers, as a kid I thought it was decorative and never questioned myself. I have no idea how to read it, after a bit of googling I’m guessing the small dial below the hands relates to the big one at the top, and 15 is full moon I gather. No idea how to calibrate it - I guess that’s what the second winding thing is for!
Edited by abucd4 on Sunday 7th March 21:02
To calibrate the moon phase go here - https://www.theclockdepot.com/clocks-blog/setting-...
As I said, nice clock, not too fancy but not a plain one either. I guess I'm biassed as my grandparents had one similar in their farmhouse when I was a kid so its a bit nostalgic for me too.
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