A career in computer programming?
Discussion
my lad is turned 15 and doing National 5 (Scottish equivalent of "O" level approx) in Computer Studies, it's almost totally coding and while he seems to be good at it according to teacher although he finds it uninteresting at the moment (actually he finds virtually every subject uninteresting) and he has no idea what he wants to do when he leaves education which makes it rather difficult selecting subjects for next year.
What's the job prospects for someone doing programming, coding etc? Oversupply or shortage?
Thanks
What's the job prospects for someone doing programming, coding etc? Oversupply or shortage?
Thanks
Thanks, wasn't sure if there was an oversupply. I suppose with more and more of the world going computerised there's always going to be a need.
Teacher seems to think he's good at the subject and I know from him working from home that he's finished tasks early and helping others in the class. He just feels it's not for him. Needs to have a bit of variety in his curriculum
Teacher seems to think he's good at the subject and I know from him working from home that he's finished tasks early and helping others in the class. He just feels it's not for him. Needs to have a bit of variety in his curriculum
Edited by Skyedriver on Tuesday 9th March 07:07
Does any 15 year old have interest in their studies though ?
Yes there is a career there but from learning a bit of code at his age there are any number of roles in the wider IT to step in to that might be more to his liking. Putting together infrastructure (especially in the cloud), devops, QA/testing, IoT (everything from your fridge to drones), data management/storage, even stuff like data science if he likes maths. He could go more the systems analysis route.. there is so much out there, gone are the days when we used to sit down and just hack a load of code together!
Yes there is a career there but from learning a bit of code at his age there are any number of roles in the wider IT to step in to that might be more to his liking. Putting together infrastructure (especially in the cloud), devops, QA/testing, IoT (everything from your fridge to drones), data management/storage, even stuff like data science if he likes maths. He could go more the systems analysis route.. there is so much out there, gone are the days when we used to sit down and just hack a load of code together!
My advice (been in tech for almost 30 years, currently security principal level within a very large and famous cloud, been here eight years all over the world now) - do straight computing science, or even maths/physics or an engineering degree - every single door is open to you. Don't be tempted by narrower scoped courses like "IT security" or "data science" - a generalist can get into any of these roles anyway, there is no need for a degree in them and the degrees are out of date by the time they're taught anyway.
Top dollars for grad software engineers, then specialise once you figure out what area you enjoy most (might be straight dev, could be security, could be data science, could be AI/machine learning, could be IoT, could be comms/space/satellite/lasers but thats more probable with maths/physics) go find a job at a decent sized tech company if possible and enjoy a wonderful modern workplace, salary, shares and work life balance - the traditional grad routes (BAE, Gov, big oil etc) are dead zones in terms of innovation and whilst it's not a disaster going there, it's not going to be the most satisfying place to work IMO.
Top dollars for grad software engineers, then specialise once you figure out what area you enjoy most (might be straight dev, could be security, could be data science, could be AI/machine learning, could be IoT, could be comms/space/satellite/lasers but thats more probable with maths/physics) go find a job at a decent sized tech company if possible and enjoy a wonderful modern workplace, salary, shares and work life balance - the traditional grad routes (BAE, Gov, big oil etc) are dead zones in terms of innovation and whilst it's not a disaster going there, it's not going to be the most satisfying place to work IMO.
good advice above, the point I was trying to make (and failed) was that a career in this area isn't necessarily just about writing code. Not sure what resources are available that might give a better idea of the variety of jobs that are out there within the industry, anyone have any ideas?
I'm 24 and working as a 'Software Developer' at the moment. I picked Computer Science as a GSCE and excelled according to teachers/friends but never enjoyed it. Ended up getting an apprenticeship for a local software company instead of going to A-levels doing more customer-facing work but still around software. Two years ago I dropped properly into the Software Development role and I have to say it's not for me at all. My business is working on cutting-edge technologies but I just have no interest in actually writing code.
A lot of software developers I have met are incredibly passionate and will code/learn outside of work for fun. However, as people have mentioned above. There are so many opportunities once you have the skills. Every 2-3 years I've moved into a different job/role within the 'IT' universe, based on experience from my previous job. Once you have a base-range of skills, a lot of doors open up. Being able to read code, understand/query databases, and having a good understanding of cloud services will put you in a great position for many businesses.
A lot of software developers I have met are incredibly passionate and will code/learn outside of work for fun. However, as people have mentioned above. There are so many opportunities once you have the skills. Every 2-3 years I've moved into a different job/role within the 'IT' universe, based on experience from my previous job. Once you have a base-range of skills, a lot of doors open up. Being able to read code, understand/query databases, and having a good understanding of cloud services will put you in a great position for many businesses.
Skyedriver said:
it's almost totally coding and while he seems to be good at it according to teacher although he finds it uninteresting at the moment
If he goes the CS degree route, or finds a passion for it, he can walk into at least a moderately well paid career without issue. Which is totally fine if he can think of nothing he'd rather do.If he wants a life not sat at a desk all day, or has any ambition to do something fulfilling, if he finds it uninteresting already it may not be the best career choice.
Thank you dor all the guidance above.
Maths isn't his best subject, algebra, geometry etc are a struggle, a puzzle as I spent virtually 50 years in Engineering using a lot of geometry.
He dropped Physics as he wasn't keen (as above kids of this age struggle to get an interest in most things and liking the teacher has a lot to do with choices i fear).
His faves are History, Art, English, possibly Biology but it's his Computer teacher who praises him and as I said earlier he finishes quickly and helps others in the class.
If we can persuade him to continue for another year there may be other parts of the subject that catch his interest but coding isn't one of them apparently.
Out of school he's seriously keen on Genealogy and has spent months researching the family tree on the likes of Find my Past, Google etc.so he's not uninterested in Computers as such.
Maths isn't his best subject, algebra, geometry etc are a struggle, a puzzle as I spent virtually 50 years in Engineering using a lot of geometry.
He dropped Physics as he wasn't keen (as above kids of this age struggle to get an interest in most things and liking the teacher has a lot to do with choices i fear).
His faves are History, Art, English, possibly Biology but it's his Computer teacher who praises him and as I said earlier he finishes quickly and helps others in the class.
If we can persuade him to continue for another year there may be other parts of the subject that catch his interest but coding isn't one of them apparently.
Out of school he's seriously keen on Genealogy and has spent months researching the family tree on the likes of Find my Past, Google etc.so he's not uninterested in Computers as such.
Skyedriver said:
... and while he seems to be good at it according to teacher although he finds it uninteresting at the moment...
Thanks
Programming, and many IT careers require constant self-learning over your whole career as things continually change wholesale... so not for someone who doesn't love it.Thanks
Perhaps get him to speak to a careers adviser, do those questionnaires and see if can narrow down to what he may enjoy.
Millions end up stuck in a career they hate, try to ensure your son isn't one of them.
Lot's of different roles in IT and not just programming. By 15 I knew it's what I wanted to do, took me until I was 22 to actually get started.
My career advisor at school said I wasn't cut out to be a programmer as my bedroom wasn't tidy!
As with most jobs the actual technical part is usually quite easy. It's the people and politics of it all that are difficult.
I'd suggest combing IT with something he enjoys.
My career advisor at school said I wasn't cut out to be a programmer as my bedroom wasn't tidy!
As with most jobs the actual technical part is usually quite easy. It's the people and politics of it all that are difficult.
I'd suggest combing IT with something he enjoys.
Edited by rustyuk on Tuesday 9th March 11:58
Skyedriver said:
.
Out of school he's seriously keen on Genealogy and has spent months researching the family tree on the likes of Find my Past, Google etc.so he's not uninterested in Computers as such.
Maybe data science or operational analysis/research might be a decent match for him then. A good grounding in programming, databases, etc would be really useful there, but the work is more about the application of those skills rather than the skills themselves. Out of school he's seriously keen on Genealogy and has spent months researching the family tree on the likes of Find my Past, Google etc.so he's not uninterested in Computers as such.
hyphen said:
Programming, and many IT careers require constant self-learning over your whole career as things continually change wholesale... so not for someone who doesn't love it.
Perhaps get him to speak to a careers adviser, do those questionnaires and see if can narrow down to what he may enjoy.
Millions end up stuck in a career they hate, try to ensure your son isn't one of them.
This.Perhaps get him to speak to a careers adviser, do those questionnaires and see if can narrow down to what he may enjoy.
Millions end up stuck in a career they hate, try to ensure your son isn't one of them.
I'm 40, and I've been working as a freelance software (mostly web) developer for the past 15 year. You're learning all the time as each projects often need a different sets of skills unless you're working for an organisation where you're focusing on a single area/piece of software, but even then things change quickly.
I started out self taught doing Basic on a C64, Pascal/VS on a PC, moving to PHP and then onto Java and C#. I went on to do a Masters in Software Engineers and only finished that a year or so ago, and that was in a bid to try and move away from 'coding' and into engineering and planning as I get older. Over the years I've lost count of how much of my own personal time I've dedicated to learning new languages/frameworks/libraries and methodologies, if you don't have much of an interest it programming, then you'd find it difficult (in my opinion). For me, I knew when I was 14 it was what I wanted to do.
There are countless ares to go into, and while I focus mainly on what are 'only' web applications and web services, I make what I consider to be a half decent wage. There are certain areas which pay way more and the opportunities are there for someone that wants them.
If I could go back in time and talk to myself, I'd tell myself to get into Robotics and AI, there's a big future there I reckon.
I also agree with a previous comment, if your son is going to go into computing, don't focus his skills too narrowly, especially to start off with. A good holistic view of programming/computing/IT will stand him in good stead and keep a varied range of opportunities open to him.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention. I wasn't great at Math when I was younger, but as I got older I found things like algebra far easier to understand, especially in a programming context, and had it been delivered in that way at school, I'm sure I would have grasped it far more quickly.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Tuesday 9th March 12:17
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Tuesday 9th March 12:17
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Tuesday 9th March 12:19
He obviously has a level of aptitude for it, do you know why he does not enjoy it?
I did not like Maths at school, as it was presented as something to learn for its own sake, to pass an exam.
I passed my O level, but with a C, and joined the RAF as a technician
It was not until later, doing a course on Instrument Landing Systems that the instructor showed how you could design the aerials purely using maths that I actually understood that Quadratic equations etc had a real life purpose.
I learn things when I need to - it has to have a purpose, and then I can get interested
Maybe work with him to find some interesting coding projects that he could do out of school to see if it piques his interest as to the possibilities
As people have said, devs pretty much self teach themselves constantly, as its necessary to keep yourself up to date
I did not like Maths at school, as it was presented as something to learn for its own sake, to pass an exam.
I passed my O level, but with a C, and joined the RAF as a technician
It was not until later, doing a course on Instrument Landing Systems that the instructor showed how you could design the aerials purely using maths that I actually understood that Quadratic equations etc had a real life purpose.
I learn things when I need to - it has to have a purpose, and then I can get interested
Maybe work with him to find some interesting coding projects that he could do out of school to see if it piques his interest as to the possibilities
As people have said, devs pretty much self teach themselves constantly, as its necessary to keep yourself up to date
Crafty_ said:
good advice above, the point I was trying to make (and failed) was that a career in this area isn't necessarily just about writing code. Not sure what resources are available that might give a better idea of the variety of jobs that are out there within the industry, anyone have any ideas?
Sorry, I didn't mean mine to look disagreeable to yours - we are both aligned!In terms of jobs, I'd just go look at the kid of jobs the FAANG companies advertise. They're not the be all and end all, but it's a good example of what skills are saught. I'd also put Deliveroo, Uber and some of the hotter startups into that categority as well
I have been working in IT for 30+ years and currently work for a multinational financial services company in Glasgow. Good quality graduates and summer placement students are always in high demand - typically applicants go through a recruitment day with us and those deemed the best are offered a role.
I'm involved in the various recruitment programmes so a few observations for what it's worth.
1) As mentioned elsewhere - don't get too specialist, a solid computer science grounding or indeed any STEM discipline will open doors.
2) Try and do something outside of the raw learning / coursework that indicates an interest or passion for the subject - interviewed a lot of grads who have no real spark - the ones that love technology stand out a mile.
3) I've interviewed so many wall flowers where it's almost impossible to get anything out of them no matter how bright they are - practise public speaking / presenting.
4) Specifically on development it's all Java, Go, Python and data mining / analytics (plus cloud with everything) for us at the moment....I'd like to think any good CompSci course would cover these areas off anyway
I'm involved in the various recruitment programmes so a few observations for what it's worth.
1) As mentioned elsewhere - don't get too specialist, a solid computer science grounding or indeed any STEM discipline will open doors.
2) Try and do something outside of the raw learning / coursework that indicates an interest or passion for the subject - interviewed a lot of grads who have no real spark - the ones that love technology stand out a mile.
3) I've interviewed so many wall flowers where it's almost impossible to get anything out of them no matter how bright they are - practise public speaking / presenting.
4) Specifically on development it's all Java, Go, Python and data mining / analytics (plus cloud with everything) for us at the moment....I'd like to think any good CompSci course would cover these areas off anyway
I wouldn't speak to a guidance teacher about jobs - there is a reason they are in teaching normally, with no offence intended to any teachers here.
Best bet is find some professional people and get THEM to speak to your son about what they do - I've done this for quite a few pals whose kids are interested in technology and business, and it's really given them some ideas to chew on ... it's really tough when you are 16 imagining what the world of work is actually like and what kind of things people do.
For me, it started as a "you travel all over the place having fun, what on earth did you do to be able to do that?" - one has went into comp science, one into a gaming degree in Dundee, another into maths and currently one into politics and economics, as I told him many of the bank senior staff I work with seem to have that background.
Best bet is find some professional people and get THEM to speak to your son about what they do - I've done this for quite a few pals whose kids are interested in technology and business, and it's really given them some ideas to chew on ... it's really tough when you are 16 imagining what the world of work is actually like and what kind of things people do.
For me, it started as a "you travel all over the place having fun, what on earth did you do to be able to do that?" - one has went into comp science, one into a gaming degree in Dundee, another into maths and currently one into politics and economics, as I told him many of the bank senior staff I work with seem to have that background.
I'm old and so probably "he doesnt know what he's talking about" as far as youngsters are concerned, but here goes.
Got into programming at school same as your lad, but it was just another thing to do. Did a degree in physics and accidentally fell into a systems engineering role.
From there I've programmed in assembler, coral, fortran, c, c++ and java, developed torpedoes, submarine systems and sonar, designed and built f1 software and auto engineering systems, architected financial services systems , and major health care solutions. Architected major warehousing and manufacturing systems, defined IT strategies for banks and insurance companies, worked in the voluntary sector, been a senior consultant across a lot of different industries, a CTO, and an IT Director, and worked all over Europe and the USA.
He may find programming boring, but I'm not sure anything other an IT career would have given me all those different opportunities. And so many IT jobs are anything but programming these days
Did I have the most exciting career? Probably not, F1 was great but too little money for the pressure, whereas finance was great money but boring as hell.
At the end of the day though I got a good working knowledge which allowed me to take opportunities in many differnt fields rather than being stuck in one, which helped alleviate the boredom.
It also enabled me to earn enough to retire comfortably at 57 and buy toys.
Only he can decide what he wants to do, but hopefully my experience above shows he shouldn't think IT means programming
Got into programming at school same as your lad, but it was just another thing to do. Did a degree in physics and accidentally fell into a systems engineering role.
From there I've programmed in assembler, coral, fortran, c, c++ and java, developed torpedoes, submarine systems and sonar, designed and built f1 software and auto engineering systems, architected financial services systems , and major health care solutions. Architected major warehousing and manufacturing systems, defined IT strategies for banks and insurance companies, worked in the voluntary sector, been a senior consultant across a lot of different industries, a CTO, and an IT Director, and worked all over Europe and the USA.
He may find programming boring, but I'm not sure anything other an IT career would have given me all those different opportunities. And so many IT jobs are anything but programming these days
Did I have the most exciting career? Probably not, F1 was great but too little money for the pressure, whereas finance was great money but boring as hell.
At the end of the day though I got a good working knowledge which allowed me to take opportunities in many differnt fields rather than being stuck in one, which helped alleviate the boredom.
It also enabled me to earn enough to retire comfortably at 57 and buy toys.
Only he can decide what he wants to do, but hopefully my experience above shows he shouldn't think IT means programming
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