Penalty Charge - "Order for recovery"

[Trackdayer]

Hi all

I face an absolutely ludicrous situation.

I sold a vehicle last year and sent the V5 off. A week later, the new owner drove in a bus lane. The council got my details from the DVLA, as the records hadn't been updated at that point and they issued me a penalty charge.

I have since obtained written proof from the DVLA stating the vehicle was registered to a new keeper at the time of the offence. It's in black and white! I have written to the council 3 times and appealed to no avail. They issued a rejection notice.

The council have now pressed ahead, today sending me a "Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge" with seemingly no options for further appeal or even a court hearing. This is absolute madness.

What do I do?

[anonymous-user]

On what basis did they reject your appeal?

[Trackdayer]

charltjr said:

On what basis did they reject your appeal?

"Because I didn't provide evidence within 28 days"

- Notably because the DVLA took a while in getting back to me with the evidence I am relying on

[Trackdayer]

I've now found a website specialising in this issue for guidance.

• *

[anonymous-user]

Following this as a family member drove through a 'bus gate' start of last July (Following Sat nav they should have gone left, left but went left thru bus gate, then u turned round in a service yard to go correct way 'as did the vehicle in front' )

As vehicle 'owner' charge came to me, so appealed online giving correct driver details to reissue fine, still not heard anything back now in 9 months, do these things 'time out'? They still aren't answering the phones due to the "covids excuse",

I don't think with those you can transfer driver liability, it seems like they can go straight to registered keeper for the cash (like the 'parking charge regime' since 2012)

[Trackdayer]

speedyguy said:

Following this as a family member drove through a 'bus gate' start of last July (Following Sat nav they should have gone left, left but went left thru bus gate, then u turned round in a service yard to go correct way 'as did the vehicle in front' )

As vehicle 'owner' charge came to me, so appealed online giving correct driver details to reissue fine, still not heard anything back now in 9 months, do these things 'time out'? They still aren't answering the phones due to the "covids excuse",

I don't think with those you can transfer driver liability, it seems like they can go straight to registered keeper for the cash (like the 'parking charge regime' since 2012)

My understanding is if you appealed within 28 days of the notice you should be okay

[anonymous-user]

Trackdayer said:

My understanding is if you appealed within 28 days of the notice you should be okay

Thanks, appealed within a couple of days as the 'errant driver' had beggared off and uncontactable into the Swedish outback at the time but never heard a word back one way or the other.

At least I've kept all the paperwork and appeals etc knowing how 'forgetful' they are

[neutral 3]

It makes my blood boil, that the DVLA supply the vehicles keeper details like confetti @ a wedding to all and sundry, Councils, Parking Parasite Scum, Motorway service parking scum......

[anonymous-user]

neutral 3 said:

It makes my blood boil, that the DVLA supply the vehicles keeper details like confetti @ a wedding to all and sundry, Councils, Parking Parasite Scum, Motorway service parking scum......

Do you think they should supply it to no one or only 'official government bodies' ?

[C350Akra]

At this time I would write to them rejecting their order and specify that you have already told them you were not the owner or driver at the time and enclose the proof. If you have been open with us they have not got a leg to stand on and would be laughed out of court.

[Trackdayer]

C350Akra said:

At this time I would write to them rejecting their order and specify that you have already told them you were not the owner or driver at the time and enclose the proof. If you have been open with us they have not got a leg to stand on and would be laughed out of court.

I have been truthful, and I totally agree with your reasoning

However, the next step is apparently bailiff action without any option of having my day in court. It seems grossly unfair!

[WatchfulEye]

See here:
https://www.gov.uk/appeal-against-a-penalty-charge...

[Pegscratch]

Trackdayer said:

"Because I didn't provide evidence within 28 days"

- Notably because the DVLA took a while in getting back to me with the evidence I am relying on

Important question, did you appeal within the timeframe and then have to wait to be able to provide the evidence? Or did you wait until you had the evidence then appeal out of time?

[LetsTryAgain]

Unless you enjoy playing silly buggers and have a lot of patience I’d pay it ASAP to avoid it going up even more than it has already.
Then try and sort.

Then when they still don’t refund or only refund the original PCN amount, wait five years and smash a few of their windows.m

[donkmeister]

speedyguy said:

neutral 3 said:

It makes my blood boil, that the DVLA supply the vehicles keeper details like confetti @ a wedding to all and sundry, Councils, Parking Parasite Scum, Motorway service parking scum......

Do you think they should supply it to no one or only 'official government bodies' ?

I like the Swiss approach - everyone's name and address is published against their reg, so if you have an issue with someone's driving you can go and remonstrate on their doorstep when everyone has calmed down a bit, reflected on what happened and is more likely to say "sorry, I haven't used that roundabout before and didn't know i was in the wrong lane" rather than "aaagh you mutha-effer, beep me will you? I'll show you!"... No idea how often that happens but surely it makes people less likely to drive like a prick, knowing that they may have to deal with a human being later on? Or worse; they might tell your mum.

(Disclaimer: My entire understanding of the Swiss system is based on an old Jeremy Clarkson programme so could be utter bks)

[Oilchange]

I wonder if the bailiff will see sense if you show them the evidence.

[Pegscratch]

Oilchange said:

I wonder if the bailiff will see sense if you show them the evidence.

Doesn't matter, if the writ is enforceable and you can't evidence it being retracted then it can be as badly issued as you like, if it stands it stands.

[Ussrcossack]

I'd be writing to the director of the council department and chief executive too.

I'd write to the councillor with responsibility for the portfolio.

should sort it

[Trackdayer]

Ussrcossack said:

I'd be writing to the director of the council department and chief executive too.

I'd write to the councillor with responsibility for the portfolio.

should sort it

That sounds like a plan. I'm on it

[LetsTryAgain]

Pegscratch said:

Doesn't matter, if the writ is enforceable and you can't evidence it being retracted then it can be as badly issued as you like, if it stands it stands.

Not to mention they’ll want their money.
As they’ve basically bought the debt off the council.