Sage Barista Express - help me dial it in
Discussion
We've had this machine a year or two now, but I've never really fully understood or got to grips with how to get a decent shot out of it. I've read loads of stuff online about ratios etc, but mine never seem to match up. I've generally just set it up in a way that the end result at least tastes ok, but I'm never sure whether I could get a better result.
We mostly drink Americano with a dash of milk, just to give you an idea of what we mostly use the machine for.
I don't use the double walled baskets, just the single walled ones.
So, a single shot. On grind setting 5/6 it yields about 10g of coffee. I've programmed the single shot button to work for around 20-24 seconds, but that gives me a shot that's about 40g, which apparently is wrong as I should be aiming for 1:1(?). Throughout the pour, the pressure needle is almost vertical which I believe is good.
Then the double shot, don't get me started on that. It produces about 16g of coffee in the basket, but no matter how fine I go with the grind I just can't get the pressure needle to be anywhere near vertical. I can get it just within the recommended range, but that's it. Then when I do the pour, the double button seems to only extract for 17 seconds (thats how it came from the factory I believe).
Essentially, I'm confused and could do with some help at least getting it setup in a half decent manner.
Another thing. When making an Americano, what should the total liquid content be for a single/double shot? Ideally I'm looking to have an end result of 280ml including milk.
At the minute we're using Lavaza (red packet) coffee beans from the supermarket. I know they're not the best, but they are reasonably priced for use on a daily basis (I work at home and drink a lot of coffee). I've bought fresh coffee before, but to be honest it's probably wasted given I don't really know how to get this thing setup in the right way. If I can get it setup using Lavaza, and at least get a better understanding, then hopefully I'll stand a better chance of dialling the machine in using better beans.
We mostly drink Americano with a dash of milk, just to give you an idea of what we mostly use the machine for.
I don't use the double walled baskets, just the single walled ones.
So, a single shot. On grind setting 5/6 it yields about 10g of coffee. I've programmed the single shot button to work for around 20-24 seconds, but that gives me a shot that's about 40g, which apparently is wrong as I should be aiming for 1:1(?). Throughout the pour, the pressure needle is almost vertical which I believe is good.
Then the double shot, don't get me started on that. It produces about 16g of coffee in the basket, but no matter how fine I go with the grind I just can't get the pressure needle to be anywhere near vertical. I can get it just within the recommended range, but that's it. Then when I do the pour, the double button seems to only extract for 17 seconds (thats how it came from the factory I believe).
Essentially, I'm confused and could do with some help at least getting it setup in a half decent manner.
Another thing. When making an Americano, what should the total liquid content be for a single/double shot? Ideally I'm looking to have an end result of 280ml including milk.
At the minute we're using Lavaza (red packet) coffee beans from the supermarket. I know they're not the best, but they are reasonably priced for use on a daily basis (I work at home and drink a lot of coffee). I've bought fresh coffee before, but to be honest it's probably wasted given I don't really know how to get this thing setup in the right way. If I can get it setup using Lavaza, and at least get a better understanding, then hopefully I'll stand a better chance of dialling the machine in using better beans.
Buy a pack of these https://www.redber.co.uk/products/guatemala-antigu...
Try them out for a change from the Lavazza Stale-o-Spresso beans...
I have been buying my beans from Redber for the past 7 years and these beans deliver a consistent grind, and shot.
It is important that you clean out your grinder (as per the instructions in the user manual), since the coffee oil (particularly in dark beans) will block the grinder, and the chute. We get through 1.5kg beans a month and it gets a bi-monthly disassembly and clean. Weekly clean using Cafiza tablets for the portafilter, and if you live in a hard-water area, a monthly descale is also required.
Try them out for a change from the Lavazza Stale-o-Spresso beans...
I have been buying my beans from Redber for the past 7 years and these beans deliver a consistent grind, and shot.
It is important that you clean out your grinder (as per the instructions in the user manual), since the coffee oil (particularly in dark beans) will block the grinder, and the chute. We get through 1.5kg beans a month and it gets a bi-monthly disassembly and clean. Weekly clean using Cafiza tablets for the portafilter, and if you live in a hard-water area, a monthly descale is also required.
Semmelweiss said:
Buy a pack of these https://www.redber.co.uk/products/guatemala-antigu...
Try them out for a change from the Lavazza Stale-o-Spresso beans...
I have been buying my beans from Redber for the past 7 years and these beans deliver a consistent grind, and shot.
It is important that you clean out your grinder (as per the instructions in the user manual), since the coffee oil (particularly in dark beans) will block the grinder, and the chute. We get through 1.5kg beans a month and it gets a bi-monthly disassembly and clean. Weekly clean using Cafiza tablets for the portafilter, and if you live in a hard-water area, a monthly descale is also required.
I'll give those a try.Try them out for a change from the Lavazza Stale-o-Spresso beans...
I have been buying my beans from Redber for the past 7 years and these beans deliver a consistent grind, and shot.
It is important that you clean out your grinder (as per the instructions in the user manual), since the coffee oil (particularly in dark beans) will block the grinder, and the chute. We get through 1.5kg beans a month and it gets a bi-monthly disassembly and clean. Weekly clean using Cafiza tablets for the portafilter, and if you live in a hard-water area, a monthly descale is also required.
We use those Cafiza tablets in the portafilter. Much cheaper than the sage ones.
I've had a play around with the grinder. I've taken it apart and adjusted the internal adjustment from 6 down to 4. It grinds finer now and I'm getting more pressure on the gauge but I'm still having difficulty getting it to pour for more than 17 seconds. If I put the double walled basket in, it goes for abour 23 seconds and produces between 1.75 - 2oz which I believe is correct. So I guess I need to get grind/amount correct using the single wall basket to replicate that.
I watched more videos and did some more dialling in... unsuccessfully.
The aim is 18g of coffee in, and around 36g out in a time between 20-30 seconds. I'm tamping with around 5lb of pressure
The problem is, from the start of the espresso coming out, to the time it takes to get to 36g, it takes 10 seconds. This would suggest I need a finer ground, but the pressure gauge on the machine is already near the top. I could apply a little more pressure when tamping, but that may choke the machine.
I'm at a total loss as to what how I get 18g in, 36g out within 20-30 seconds. It seems impossible. I've gone through almost a full 1kg bag trying to get this to work.
The aim is 18g of coffee in, and around 36g out in a time between 20-30 seconds. I'm tamping with around 5lb of pressure
The problem is, from the start of the espresso coming out, to the time it takes to get to 36g, it takes 10 seconds. This would suggest I need a finer ground, but the pressure gauge on the machine is already near the top. I could apply a little more pressure when tamping, but that may choke the machine.
I'm at a total loss as to what how I get 18g in, 36g out within 20-30 seconds. It seems impossible. I've gone through almost a full 1kg bag trying to get this to work.
TheBinarySheep said:
I watched more videos and did some more dialling in... unsuccessfully.
The aim is 18g of coffee in, and around 36g out in a time between 20-30 seconds. I'm tamping with around 5lb of pressure
The problem is, from the start of the espresso coming out, to the time it takes to get to 36g, it takes 10 seconds. This would suggest I need a finer ground, but the pressure gauge on the machine is already near the top. I could apply a little more pressure when tamping, but that may choke the machine.
I'm at a total loss as to what how I get 18g in, 36g out within 20-30 seconds. It seems impossible. I've gone through almost a full 1kg bag trying to get this to work.
The Sage grinder isn't the best, so it can be a bit of a struggle to dial in I believe.The aim is 18g of coffee in, and around 36g out in a time between 20-30 seconds. I'm tamping with around 5lb of pressure
The problem is, from the start of the espresso coming out, to the time it takes to get to 36g, it takes 10 seconds. This would suggest I need a finer ground, but the pressure gauge on the machine is already near the top. I could apply a little more pressure when tamping, but that may choke the machine.
I'm at a total loss as to what how I get 18g in, 36g out within 20-30 seconds. It seems impossible. I've gone through almost a full 1kg bag trying to get this to work.
A 10 second shot won't really be worth drinking.
It's more the grind that the tamper pressure. Just lkeep going finer. Don't worry too much about choking the machine.
For a 30 second shot, you'll see the pressure go up but no coffee will come through until about the 7 second mark, so don't panic.
Also - you're using Lavazza which is dark, stale and brittle - water can travel through burnt, dry beans a bit quicker. I'd go and get another bag, keep practicing until you get to around the 30 second shot point. Then get yourself a nice bag from somewhere to enjoy. The nice coffee shops should sell a 250g for between £7 - £10, or go online to a nice roaster.
You might find you'll need to go a touch finer again for your next bean.
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 13:52
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 13:54
RobbieTheTruth said:
The Sage grinder isn't the best, so it can be a bit of a struggle to dial in I believe.
A 10 second shot won't really be worth drinking.
It's more the grind that the tamper pressure. Just lkeep going finer. Don't worry too much about choking the machine.
For a 30 second shot, you'll see the pressure go up but no coffee will come through until about the 7 second mark, so don't panic.
Also - you're using Lavazza which is dark, stale and brittle - water can travel through burnt, dry beans a bit quicker. I'd go and get another bag, keep practicing until you get to around the 30 second shot point. Then get yourself a nice bag from somewhere to enjoy. The nice coffee shops should sell a 250g for between £7 - £10, or go online to a nice roaster.
You might find you'll need to go a touch finer again for your next bean.
Thanks.A 10 second shot won't really be worth drinking.
It's more the grind that the tamper pressure. Just lkeep going finer. Don't worry too much about choking the machine.
For a 30 second shot, you'll see the pressure go up but no coffee will come through until about the 7 second mark, so don't panic.
Also - you're using Lavazza which is dark, stale and brittle - water can travel through burnt, dry beans a bit quicker. I'd go and get another bag, keep practicing until you get to around the 30 second shot point. Then get yourself a nice bag from somewhere to enjoy. The nice coffee shops should sell a 250g for between £7 - £10, or go online to a nice roaster.
You might find you'll need to go a touch finer again for your next bean.
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 13:52
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 13:54
I found this https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51039-sage-beprod... which suggests that these machines work best with fresh beans, so I've ordered some from Black Cat. Like you say, if the beans are not fresh then the water can get through it more easily.
TheBinarySheep said:
RobbieTheTruth said:
The Sage grinder isn't the best, so it can be a bit of a struggle to dial in I believe.
A 10 second shot won't really be worth drinking.
It's more the grind that the tamper pressure. Just lkeep going finer. Don't worry too much about choking the machine.
For a 30 second shot, you'll see the pressure go up but no coffee will come through until about the 7 second mark, so don't panic.
Also - you're using Lavazza which is dark, stale and brittle - water can travel through burnt, dry beans a bit quicker. I'd go and get another bag, keep practicing until you get to around the 30 second shot point. Then get yourself a nice bag from somewhere to enjoy. The nice coffee shops should sell a 250g for between £7 - £10, or go online to a nice roaster.
You might find you'll need to go a touch finer again for your next bean.
Thanks.A 10 second shot won't really be worth drinking.
It's more the grind that the tamper pressure. Just lkeep going finer. Don't worry too much about choking the machine.
For a 30 second shot, you'll see the pressure go up but no coffee will come through until about the 7 second mark, so don't panic.
Also - you're using Lavazza which is dark, stale and brittle - water can travel through burnt, dry beans a bit quicker. I'd go and get another bag, keep practicing until you get to around the 30 second shot point. Then get yourself a nice bag from somewhere to enjoy. The nice coffee shops should sell a 250g for between £7 - £10, or go online to a nice roaster.
You might find you'll need to go a touch finer again for your next bean.
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 13:52
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 13:54
I found this https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51039-sage-beprod... which suggests that these machines work best with fresh beans, so I've ordered some from Black Cat. Like you say, if the beans are not fresh then the water can get through it more easily.
You still might need to go finer though. I imagine with a 10 second shot, you see coffee as soon as you start the shot? You want about a 7 second pause as the water hits the puck and starts trying to push it's way though.
Basically, the shot should take 30 seconds with the first visible drip around 5-7 seconds.
And sorry - I made a little mistake in my other post. Once you're getting close to a 30 second shot on Lavazza, you might be able to go a little courser on a fresh bean (not finer as originally stated)
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Tuesday 16th March 15:26
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