Career in a trade
Discussion
All,
This may be a long post..... But it has been causing me considerable distress for a long time, and figured it was now the time to get some advice, from what I have seen to be a very well informed community.
A quick run down of where I am at the moment, graduated 2011 with a 2:1 in an engineering discipline, had an amazing job for a while (total 4 years) doing something pretty unique and very exciting. Following that role, this went a little downhill, with a brief stint in the movie industry (our company folded due to losing a large investment in a movie caused by a fatal accident on the set) and several other jobs including teaching (automotive tech), stacking lumber, construction and finally managing a mattress factory.
I went back to University to study Computer Science. Fast forward to today, and I am doing really well in my CS degree, I won a scholarship in my foundation year and have averaged a 1st for the subsequent 2 years until today, where I am currently on an internship year. Unfortunately, the internship year hasn't quite gone to plan (covid has not helped at all!) and I am working at the moment in a factory, which I really enjoy.
Anyway, I am considering what I may want to do after University, I have had excellent feedback from my internship assessment centres / interviews however, they all come down to questioning my ultimate motivations for the role applied for. I am not arguing with their assessment and agree that for the roles I have applied, I don't 'love' any of them. I am a very people orientated person and frequently receive feedback that I would be excellent in a 'front end' position over back end operations.
I have been speaking with my parents about this, as they can see the distress that it is causing me - trying to establish what I will do. I am putting myself under huge amounts of pressure, for obvious reasons and in all honesty, I want to be able to stand on my own two feet, I believe my parents deserve that at the very least and I am confident that I have it in me to achieve this goal.
Of course, there is the sensitive subject, as to why I went back to University etc. but that's too long to cover in this post and involves a divorce and crushing mental health issues that saw me in a very dark place. Applying myself at University has been (and continues) to be hugely rewarding, and I have won awards for my volunteering and started a small photography business on the side.
I am considering a career in a trade (HVAC really appeals to me along with building services) for several reasons, first and foremost, I find huge satisfaction working with my hands and enjoy working on a project by project basis. Furthermore, although I am not afforded the security of a large company, I am able to satisfy the mental anguish of determining what it is that I do. There are many, many other reasons, but simple the fact is, this appeals to me.
At this point in life, I will return to University for my final year in September of this year, I had spoken about a masters in something, but honestly, I would rather get into some form of job based training etc.
With all this said, does any pointers / guidance on how I can go about this?
Thanks guys - feeling a little (very) lost at the moment
This may be a long post..... But it has been causing me considerable distress for a long time, and figured it was now the time to get some advice, from what I have seen to be a very well informed community.
A quick run down of where I am at the moment, graduated 2011 with a 2:1 in an engineering discipline, had an amazing job for a while (total 4 years) doing something pretty unique and very exciting. Following that role, this went a little downhill, with a brief stint in the movie industry (our company folded due to losing a large investment in a movie caused by a fatal accident on the set) and several other jobs including teaching (automotive tech), stacking lumber, construction and finally managing a mattress factory.
I went back to University to study Computer Science. Fast forward to today, and I am doing really well in my CS degree, I won a scholarship in my foundation year and have averaged a 1st for the subsequent 2 years until today, where I am currently on an internship year. Unfortunately, the internship year hasn't quite gone to plan (covid has not helped at all!) and I am working at the moment in a factory, which I really enjoy.
Anyway, I am considering what I may want to do after University, I have had excellent feedback from my internship assessment centres / interviews however, they all come down to questioning my ultimate motivations for the role applied for. I am not arguing with their assessment and agree that for the roles I have applied, I don't 'love' any of them. I am a very people orientated person and frequently receive feedback that I would be excellent in a 'front end' position over back end operations.
I have been speaking with my parents about this, as they can see the distress that it is causing me - trying to establish what I will do. I am putting myself under huge amounts of pressure, for obvious reasons and in all honesty, I want to be able to stand on my own two feet, I believe my parents deserve that at the very least and I am confident that I have it in me to achieve this goal.
Of course, there is the sensitive subject, as to why I went back to University etc. but that's too long to cover in this post and involves a divorce and crushing mental health issues that saw me in a very dark place. Applying myself at University has been (and continues) to be hugely rewarding, and I have won awards for my volunteering and started a small photography business on the side.
I am considering a career in a trade (HVAC really appeals to me along with building services) for several reasons, first and foremost, I find huge satisfaction working with my hands and enjoy working on a project by project basis. Furthermore, although I am not afforded the security of a large company, I am able to satisfy the mental anguish of determining what it is that I do. There are many, many other reasons, but simple the fact is, this appeals to me.
At this point in life, I will return to University for my final year in September of this year, I had spoken about a masters in something, but honestly, I would rather get into some form of job based training etc.
With all this said, does any pointers / guidance on how I can go about this?
Thanks guys - feeling a little (very) lost at the moment
Happy to offer some thoughts. I once had a boss who said work out what your goal is and then recognize there will be all sorts of concrete blocks to work around on the way. Work round them one at a time and don't lose sight of the end goal. I see you are doing computer science now, there is a huge shortage of skills in IT. Consider using your IT skills to get into and learn about the HVAC market, then having done that for a few years you can consider your next move. Like most markets HVAC relies on technology with smart homes, alternative fuels and regulation all driving constant change and opportunities. Hope this helps and good luck.
I’d agree with with the poster above.
Finish your degree as you’re nearly there and it seems you’ll come out with a cracking result.
Then seek a role in the HVAC/ systems field, ideally using your computing skills - by doing this you are being paid to “upskill”.
Once you feel you understand the industry and have some experience you might be able to set up on your own/ move to connected industries - Smart home and tech will only increase and if you are able to advise/ work on system integration then that will be hugely useful.
It doesn’t matter if you don’t have a watertight plan now - just ensure you are learning more / gaining more experience.
- give yourself a bit of a break as well- seems you are exceptionally harsh on yourself - your parents can obviously see how hard you are working and seem very supportive. Best of luck
Finish your degree as you’re nearly there and it seems you’ll come out with a cracking result.
Then seek a role in the HVAC/ systems field, ideally using your computing skills - by doing this you are being paid to “upskill”.
Once you feel you understand the industry and have some experience you might be able to set up on your own/ move to connected industries - Smart home and tech will only increase and if you are able to advise/ work on system integration then that will be hugely useful.
It doesn’t matter if you don’t have a watertight plan now - just ensure you are learning more / gaining more experience.
- give yourself a bit of a break as well- seems you are exceptionally harsh on yourself - your parents can obviously see how hard you are working and seem very supportive. Best of luck
Let me give you sector to keep an eye on that might enable you to forward focus a little and one that I think you might find interesting - compost!
Over the coming years, commercial compost plants will be moving more towards something called Dry Anaerobic Digestion. This is driven by legislation as well as need. These systems need huge amounts of heat to kick start the process and some serious air management applied, not least of which is the purification of emissions to eliminate odours. It sounds dull but I'm currently working with one company that's in the early stages of introducing this at their site and being non-technical myself, I find the whole thing compellingly fascinating.
The reason I mention this is as a means to widen your field of view to sectors, not just a singular profession. Working towards becoming an expert in a particularly field emboldens you beyond normal levels - so, in this example, become the leading HVAC expert in Organic Waste Management. If not that sector, them another. You have an opportunity to add learning to your University course to jump start the process.
If not, well....
Over the coming years, commercial compost plants will be moving more towards something called Dry Anaerobic Digestion. This is driven by legislation as well as need. These systems need huge amounts of heat to kick start the process and some serious air management applied, not least of which is the purification of emissions to eliminate odours. It sounds dull but I'm currently working with one company that's in the early stages of introducing this at their site and being non-technical myself, I find the whole thing compellingly fascinating.
The reason I mention this is as a means to widen your field of view to sectors, not just a singular profession. Working towards becoming an expert in a particularly field emboldens you beyond normal levels - so, in this example, become the leading HVAC expert in Organic Waste Management. If not that sector, them another. You have an opportunity to add learning to your University course to jump start the process.
If not, well....
toohuge said:
managing a mattress factory
It's always good to have something to fall back on! As you’re IT biased maybe look into “controls”. Our sister arm is struggling like mad at the moment in trying to recruit people.
Failing the above and you really do fancy HVAC I’d be looking at understanding Absorption chillers over most else. They way of the world now has the high GWP refrigerants on the way out.
Failing the above and you really do fancy HVAC I’d be looking at understanding Absorption chillers over most else. They way of the world now has the high GWP refrigerants on the way out.
With your background, why don't you want to become a software engineer in a hi tech firm?
If it is because you see yourself as more of a people person rather than an out and out softie, then I'd be thinking about becoming a Sales Engineer in a high tech firm.
Here you will get the best of both worlds, tech, complicated, interesting, decent career progression and you get to pick the industry / segment a bit as well.
If it is because you see yourself as more of a people person rather than an out and out softie, then I'd be thinking about becoming a Sales Engineer in a high tech firm.
Here you will get the best of both worlds, tech, complicated, interesting, decent career progression and you get to pick the industry / segment a bit as well.
I've worked in the HVAC/Facilities Management industry most of my life, including transitioning into IT. My full career was:
RN Weapons Engineer
HVAC/FM (Supervisor then Manager)
IT Application Support (Real Estate Asset Management Systems)
Business Analyst (Corporate Real Estate)
Unless you genuinely like getting your hands dirt for not much money avoid HVAC on the tools. If you want to learn a trade do something like plumbing and work for yourself. Good tradesmen are never short of work.
Why not consider a career in corporate real estate on the IT side? Plenty of opportunities to work on projects implementing stuff and working with people. If you like tinkering then do support/development. If you're a people person then business analysis/project management.
My last project was implementing an Enterprise Asset Management system for a large government organisation. I was working directly with the clients engineers and my engineering HVAC experience was invaluable.
RN Weapons Engineer
HVAC/FM (Supervisor then Manager)
IT Application Support (Real Estate Asset Management Systems)
Business Analyst (Corporate Real Estate)
Unless you genuinely like getting your hands dirt for not much money avoid HVAC on the tools. If you want to learn a trade do something like plumbing and work for yourself. Good tradesmen are never short of work.
Why not consider a career in corporate real estate on the IT side? Plenty of opportunities to work on projects implementing stuff and working with people. If you like tinkering then do support/development. If you're a people person then business analysis/project management.
My last project was implementing an Enterprise Asset Management system for a large government organisation. I was working directly with the clients engineers and my engineering HVAC experience was invaluable.
98elise said:
I've worked in the HVAC/Facilities Management industry most of my life, including transitioning into IT. My full career was:
RN Weapons Engineer
HVAC/FM (Supervisor then Manager)
IT Application Support (Real Estate Asset Management Systems)
Business Analyst (Corporate Real Estate)
Unless you genuinely like getting your hands dirt for not much money avoid HVAC on the tools. If you want to learn a trade do something like plumbing and work for yourself. Good tradesmen are never short of work.
Why not consider a career in corporate real estate on the IT side? Plenty of opportunities to work on projects implementing stuff and working with people. If you like tinkering then do support/development. If you're a people person then business analysis/project management.
My last project was implementing an Enterprise Asset Management system for a large government organisation. I was working directly with the clients engineers and my engineering HVAC experience was invaluable.
Out of interest, what do class as “not much money” for being on the tools?.RN Weapons Engineer
HVAC/FM (Supervisor then Manager)
IT Application Support (Real Estate Asset Management Systems)
Business Analyst (Corporate Real Estate)
Unless you genuinely like getting your hands dirt for not much money avoid HVAC on the tools. If you want to learn a trade do something like plumbing and work for yourself. Good tradesmen are never short of work.
Why not consider a career in corporate real estate on the IT side? Plenty of opportunities to work on projects implementing stuff and working with people. If you like tinkering then do support/development. If you're a people person then business analysis/project management.
My last project was implementing an Enterprise Asset Management system for a large government organisation. I was working directly with the clients engineers and my engineering HVAC experience was invaluable.
Matt p said:
98elise said:
I've worked in the HVAC/Facilities Management industry most of my life, including transitioning into IT. My full career was:
RN Weapons Engineer
HVAC/FM (Supervisor then Manager)
IT Application Support (Real Estate Asset Management Systems)
Business Analyst (Corporate Real Estate)
Unless you genuinely like getting your hands dirt for not much money avoid HVAC on the tools. If you want to learn a trade do something like plumbing and work for yourself. Good tradesmen are never short of work.
Why not consider a career in corporate real estate on the IT side? Plenty of opportunities to work on projects implementing stuff and working with people. If you like tinkering then do support/development. If you're a people person then business analysis/project management.
My last project was implementing an Enterprise Asset Management system for a large government organisation. I was working directly with the clients engineers and my engineering HVAC experience was invaluable.
Out of interest, what do class as “not much money” for being on the tools?.RN Weapons Engineer
HVAC/FM (Supervisor then Manager)
IT Application Support (Real Estate Asset Management Systems)
Business Analyst (Corporate Real Estate)
Unless you genuinely like getting your hands dirt for not much money avoid HVAC on the tools. If you want to learn a trade do something like plumbing and work for yourself. Good tradesmen are never short of work.
Why not consider a career in corporate real estate on the IT side? Plenty of opportunities to work on projects implementing stuff and working with people. If you like tinkering then do support/development. If you're a people person then business analysis/project management.
My last project was implementing an Enterprise Asset Management system for a large government organisation. I was working directly with the clients engineers and my engineering HVAC experience was invaluable.
When I moved into IT I had zero experience yet my wages jumped 10% for what was an entry level job. Within 3 months they jumped 10% again as my boss believed I was underpaid and would move on. When I left full time work to go contracting 10 years ago I was on 60k + bonus + car etc (total package of 80k). Contracting I was easily surpassing 100k.
Bear in mind my Engineering training took 4 years. My IT training was probably less than 4 months in total!
Edited by 98elise on Friday 19th March 14:49
98elise said:
Certainly in London/SE it wasn't that much better than the average wage, which these days translates to low 30's today (feel free to correct that assumption though). Most of the industry is run by the big outsource companies (Mitie etc) so wages at the coal face are low than they should be for a skilled tradesman. As a Manager I was only just hitting high rate tax. To be fair specialists like Combustion/Fridge/Controls can earn a good wage.
When I moved into IT I had zero experience yet my wages jumped 10% for what was an entry level job. Within 3 months they jumped 10% again as my boss believed I was underpaid and would move on. When I left full time work to go contracting 10 years ago I was on 60k + bonus + car etc (total package of 80k). Contracting I was easily surpassing 100k.
Bear in mind my Engineering training took 4 years. My IT training was probably less than 4 months in total!
I wouldn’t touch Mitie, kier, integral, cbre, optimum etc with a barge pole. It’s a race to the bottom with those. When I moved into IT I had zero experience yet my wages jumped 10% for what was an entry level job. Within 3 months they jumped 10% again as my boss believed I was underpaid and would move on. When I left full time work to go contracting 10 years ago I was on 60k + bonus + car etc (total package of 80k). Contracting I was easily surpassing 100k.
Bear in mind my Engineering training took 4 years. My IT training was probably less than 4 months in total!
Edited by 98elise on Friday 19th March 14:49
Centrifugal guy here. I’d be politely declining that sort of salary rather swiftly. As per things with me I did it completely arse about face and did my fridge apprenticeship at a small m+e outfit. Then went on a joined one of the four main companies in the HVAC/building automation field. Which funnily enough has worked out quite lucrative financially for me.
Matt p said:
98elise said:
Certainly in London/SE it wasn't that much better than the average wage, which these days translates to low 30's today (feel free to correct that assumption though). Most of the industry is run by the big outsource companies (Mitie etc) so wages at the coal face are low than they should be for a skilled tradesman. As a Manager I was only just hitting high rate tax. To be fair specialists like Combustion/Fridge/Controls can earn a good wage.
When I moved into IT I had zero experience yet my wages jumped 10% for what was an entry level job. Within 3 months they jumped 10% again as my boss believed I was underpaid and would move on. When I left full time work to go contracting 10 years ago I was on 60k + bonus + car etc (total package of 80k). Contracting I was easily surpassing 100k.
Bear in mind my Engineering training took 4 years. My IT training was probably less than 4 months in total!
I wouldn’t touch Mitie, kier, integral, cbre, optimum etc with a barge pole. It’s a race to the bottom with those. When I moved into IT I had zero experience yet my wages jumped 10% for what was an entry level job. Within 3 months they jumped 10% again as my boss believed I was underpaid and would move on. When I left full time work to go contracting 10 years ago I was on 60k + bonus + car etc (total package of 80k). Contracting I was easily surpassing 100k.
Bear in mind my Engineering training took 4 years. My IT training was probably less than 4 months in total!
Edited by 98elise on Friday 19th March 14:49
Centrifugal guy here. I’d be politely declining that sort of salary rather swiftly. As per things with me I did it completely arse about face and did my fridge apprenticeship at a small m+e outfit. Then went on a joined one of the four main companies in the HVAC/building automation field. Which funnily enough has worked out quite lucrative financially for me.
Thank you for all the replies!
It has been a busy week in the factory, worked yesterday, however I appreciate all of the replies.
To answer a few questions:
Software engineering in a high tech firm - it just isn't something I know I could do and stick with for the long term.
Technical sales / field engineer - this does really appeal to me, I like to think I have the ability to translate the customer requirements into technical solutions and the potential to travel and take on different projects is very important to keeping me sane!
Corporate real estate - I had not considered this avenue! Thank you for the heads up - that does sounds really interesting and something I can see myself being motivated at and consequently successful in doing so.
Building services / control systems - This is where I see myself ideally. I think with my skills in computer science and hands on capabilities, the changing environments and geographical locations would suit me well and the opportunity to work on implementation / design / upgrades would be really interesting!
Thank you all for your input and optimism! It is very much appreciated.
It has been a busy week in the factory, worked yesterday, however I appreciate all of the replies.
To answer a few questions:
Software engineering in a high tech firm - it just isn't something I know I could do and stick with for the long term.
Technical sales / field engineer - this does really appeal to me, I like to think I have the ability to translate the customer requirements into technical solutions and the potential to travel and take on different projects is very important to keeping me sane!
Corporate real estate - I had not considered this avenue! Thank you for the heads up - that does sounds really interesting and something I can see myself being motivated at and consequently successful in doing so.
Building services / control systems - This is where I see myself ideally. I think with my skills in computer science and hands on capabilities, the changing environments and geographical locations would suit me well and the opportunity to work on implementation / design / upgrades would be really interesting!
Thank you all for your input and optimism! It is very much appreciated.
Do whatever you think best now. You sound quite young and so bear in mind you'll have decades of work ahead of you.
Even if you love and have a passion for something now that does not mean it will be a lifelong passion, things change.
You do not need to worry about some life defining decision now. You can do something different every year for at least 10 years. It may feel like there's pressure to find your perfect job/career but it's your life and it'll be a long one.
Even if you love and have a passion for something now that does not mean it will be a lifelong passion, things change.
You do not need to worry about some life defining decision now. You can do something different every year for at least 10 years. It may feel like there's pressure to find your perfect job/career but it's your life and it'll be a long one.
Frimley111R said:
Do whatever you think best now. You sound quite young and so bear in mind you'll have decades of work ahead of you.
Even if you love and have a passion for something now that does not mean it will be a lifelong passion, things change.
You do not need to worry about some life defining decision now. You can do something different every year for at least 10 years. It may feel like there's pressure to find your perfect job/career but it's your life and it'll be a long one.
Thanks man - lovely words Even if you love and have a passion for something now that does not mean it will be a lifelong passion, things change.
You do not need to worry about some life defining decision now. You can do something different every year for at least 10 years. It may feel like there's pressure to find your perfect job/career but it's your life and it'll be a long one.
Assuming you're around 30, first question.. considered joining the military for a hands on, people-centric organisation?
Otherwise, and I can't speak from experience, I would be considering becoming an electrician and moving into the home automation industry. You could develop an interest in working with disabled people that have a new wealth of affordable options for supporting their needs, as well as making the bread and butter home security installation and smart devices.
When you start adding up the future home electrical load balancing (solar, car charger, electric heating, battery storage), you would have a wealth of knowledge from your 2 degrees to ensure this is done properly.
Otherwise, and I can't speak from experience, I would be considering becoming an electrician and moving into the home automation industry. You could develop an interest in working with disabled people that have a new wealth of affordable options for supporting their needs, as well as making the bread and butter home security installation and smart devices.
When you start adding up the future home electrical load balancing (solar, car charger, electric heating, battery storage), you would have a wealth of knowledge from your 2 degrees to ensure this is done properly.
Evanivitch said:
Assuming you're around 30, first question.. considered joining the military for a hands on, people-centric organisation?
Otherwise, and I can't speak from experience, I would be considering becoming an electrician and moving into the home automation industry. You could develop an interest in working with disabled people that have a new wealth of affordable options for supporting their needs, as well as making the bread and butter home security installation and smart devices.
When you start adding up the future home electrical load balancing (solar, car charger, electric heating, battery storage), you would have a wealth of knowledge from your 2 degrees to ensure this is done properly.
I'm 32 Otherwise, and I can't speak from experience, I would be considering becoming an electrician and moving into the home automation industry. You could develop an interest in working with disabled people that have a new wealth of affordable options for supporting their needs, as well as making the bread and butter home security installation and smart devices.
When you start adding up the future home electrical load balancing (solar, car charger, electric heating, battery storage), you would have a wealth of knowledge from your 2 degrees to ensure this is done properly.
Thanks Evanivitch, the military has been a quiet consideration of mine, not sure I am cut out for it to be honest! But it's not something I have totally ignored.
Just last week, I was researching HVAC design and controls etc. and came across building services, that encompasses a lot of the skills that have been mentioned here, as well as some of the things you have mentioned re. solar / environmental controls etc. Coincidently, there's an excellent masters course at my current University in low energy building services that is a hands on, conversion course designed to train engineers (and comp sci grads) for the building services industry. I wrote to the department and on Monday, the head of the department called and we had a great conversation about the course, my aspirations and how my skill set would integrate with their programme.
toohuge said:
I'm 32
Thanks Evanivitch, the military has been a quiet consideration of mine, not sure I am cut out for it to be honest! But it's not something I have totally ignored.
Just last week, I was researching HVAC design and controls etc. and came across building services, that encompasses a lot of the skills that have been mentioned here, as well as some of the things you have mentioned re. solar / environmental controls etc. Coincidently, there's an excellent masters course at my current University in low energy building services that is a hands on, conversion course designed to train engineers (and comp sci grads) for the building services industry. I wrote to the department and on Monday, the head of the department called and we had a great conversation about the course, my aspirations and how my skill set would integrate with their programme.
Consider the RAF. There's officer route or a very accelerated route in the trades. Once you're past basic where you'd be an older recruit, things become better.Thanks Evanivitch, the military has been a quiet consideration of mine, not sure I am cut out for it to be honest! But it's not something I have totally ignored.
Just last week, I was researching HVAC design and controls etc. and came across building services, that encompasses a lot of the skills that have been mentioned here, as well as some of the things you have mentioned re. solar / environmental controls etc. Coincidently, there's an excellent masters course at my current University in low energy building services that is a hands on, conversion course designed to train engineers (and comp sci grads) for the building services industry. I wrote to the department and on Monday, the head of the department called and we had a great conversation about the course, my aspirations and how my skill set would integrate with their programme.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff