Long gearing... Is it just me, or...?
Discussion
Evening all,
Now, I can hear the ‘shoulda left it’ klaxon blaring already, but I’ve done 600 miles in my GT4 now, and I would really like someone to explain what the ‘the manual’s gearing is too long’ actually means, logically. I get that the red line in second is at 86mph, which is unusually high, etc etc, but as long as you’re not in first, if you think the gear you’re in is too long... don’t you have the option of a downshift? I also get that the torque curve of the manual is very different from the PDK’s, but if that’s the complaint, talking about long gearing doesn’t really describe your problem, does it?
Enlighten me, thankyouplease...
TH
Now, I can hear the ‘shoulda left it’ klaxon blaring already, but I’ve done 600 miles in my GT4 now, and I would really like someone to explain what the ‘the manual’s gearing is too long’ actually means, logically. I get that the red line in second is at 86mph, which is unusually high, etc etc, but as long as you’re not in first, if you think the gear you’re in is too long... don’t you have the option of a downshift? I also get that the torque curve of the manual is very different from the PDK’s, but if that’s the complaint, talking about long gearing doesn’t really describe your problem, does it?
Enlighten me, thankyouplease...
TH
86mph in 2nd gear is ridiculous when the speed limit is only 70,. How often do you find yourself coming off a roundabout onto a dual carriage way/motorway where you only get to pull 2nd gear then what change to 6th??
Having much shorter gears would at least give you the opportunity to use 3rd/4th.
Not everyone enjoys waiting for long gears and find it more fun using more gears. One of the most fun cars I've driven has a close ratio 6speed box ,54mph in 2nd at 8600rpm so on track between 40-120 is mostly all 3rd/4th/5th.i rarely need to change down the 2nd which used to cost me time/speed previously with the standard final drive.
Best mod on one of my cars that comes with a 3.3final drive and theoretical top speed of 170mph was fit a 3.9fd to bring speed down to 147mph , it's feels like the car has gained 50+hp
Having much shorter gears would at least give you the opportunity to use 3rd/4th.
Not everyone enjoys waiting for long gears and find it more fun using more gears. One of the most fun cars I've driven has a close ratio 6speed box ,54mph in 2nd at 8600rpm so on track between 40-120 is mostly all 3rd/4th/5th.i rarely need to change down the 2nd which used to cost me time/speed previously with the standard final drive.
Best mod on one of my cars that comes with a 3.3final drive and theoretical top speed of 170mph was fit a 3.9fd to bring speed down to 147mph , it's feels like the car has gained 50+hp
A gearbox is a torque multiplier, it converts the high speed, low torque output of the engine crankshaft(s) into low speed, high torque at the prop shaft, final drive shafts and wheels. If the gearing has long ratios this results in the engine speed translating to a greater range of vehicle speed in each gear, slowing acceleration.
But the main reason this is undesirable in a sports car, is you don’t have to change gear as often, so on a section of typical British B road, only one gear might be necessary and it’s like driving around in an automatic.
You also don’t get to appreciate the ferocious acceleration and aural intensity typical at the top end of the rev range, where you spend most of the time in a race car, for instance.
But the main reason this is undesirable in a sports car, is you don’t have to change gear as often, so on a section of typical British B road, only one gear might be necessary and it’s like driving around in an automatic.
You also don’t get to appreciate the ferocious acceleration and aural intensity typical at the top end of the rev range, where you spend most of the time in a race car, for instance.
thr32 said:
I would really like someone to explain what the ‘the manual’s gearing is too long’ actually means, logically.
It means there's a bandwagon for fools to jump on. The car's got 6 gears - if you don't like the gear you're in just change to one of the others, it's not difficult. My personal favourites are the people who complain about gear ratios in the 7-speed PDK automatic. Virtually every car on sale today is capable of being driven from standstill to well over all the speed limits in one gear - the Porsche is no exception. To say they're all like automatics is plum daft.
Yes, it feels as thought here's a bit of a step from 1st to 2nd but then many drivers will be skipping intermediate gears in normal driving. And seriously, who changes down to 1st unless they're stationary?
MiseryStreak said:
You also don’t get to appreciate the ferocious acceleration and aural intensity typical at the top end of the rev range, where you spend most of the time in a race car, for instance.
This better explains what I was getting at, on typical British A an B roads i love engines that have a good top end an when the mood suits firing through 2 gears is more fun than watching the rev counter creeping along in 100rpm steps or as you say being able to leave the car in 1 gear to cover all.Speed in 1st 4 years (man)
45 80, 110, and 150...
To give you an idea what performance is sacrificed... if my Cay 2.7 had gearing in these 1st 4 years lowered by 15%, its performance would be very near that of the 3.4S... both from standing start and in-gear.
Frankly, this would suit me... long gears like this don't make much sense on the road.
45 80, 110, and 150...
To give you an idea what performance is sacrificed... if my Cay 2.7 had gearing in these 1st 4 years lowered by 15%, its performance would be very near that of the 3.4S... both from standing start and in-gear.
Frankly, this would suit me... long gears like this don't make much sense on the road.
I find the longer gearing less of an issue in the PDK, purely because 1st gear is easily accessible when braking into a bend. The ease of changing gears in the PDK also means you can more often dip into 3rd (unless you do all of your road driving above 6k rpm).
In a manual box where 2nd goes over 80mph you're kinda stuck with 1 gear in the real world of british B roads.
In a manual box where 2nd goes over 80mph you're kinda stuck with 1 gear in the real world of british B roads.
jayxx83 said:
Sounds like a 10 pc final drive reduction is in order!
It’s not quite that easy. On a decent fast bit of road, say the ring, or Spa the gearing isn’t bad and the closely stacked intermediate gears are right on the money. It’s in more “normal” driving that the high lower gears are a bit of a pain and the car does suffer. The PDK has the same torque curve but lower intermediate gears and one extra ratio. Looking forwards to getting mine in May. I don’t like the gearing on the road in the manual.Schmed said:
Is yet another nonsense bandwagon for lazy journalists to jump on.
Just like anyone who drives a Porsche but only goes under 70...
I think there is some truth to this comment to be honesty with you. Just like anyone who drives a Porsche but only goes under 70...
Not saying the gearing isn’t long, but I don’t think it detracts too much from the experience.
Emperors clothes syndrome here, the journos and YouTubers just say what the last guy said for fear of looking odd. Not a real world review or owner.
Edited by diffstar on Monday 15th March 06:46
The problem with longer gearing is interactivity, lack thereof, assuming, that is, you want the interactivity.
With shorter gearing, you are changing gear more often to reach a given range of speeds. Simple, objective fact. Whether this is a good or bad thing is another matter, of course, and is subjective. If you are happy changing gear less often, the longer gearing is fine. If not, it's not fine.
If someone has chosen the manual option specifically to ensure a certain kind of interactivity, it's not a terribly huge leap of deductive reasoning to grasp why the long gearing might be a bit disappointing / an impediment to enjoyment and engagement.
It's also one of those things where it's easy to drive the car and think, 'this isn't so bad, what's the problem', given the cars in question tend to be bloody good for the most part. When in fact were you given the opportunity to try shorter gearing it might be a penny-drop moment of realisation as it becomes obvious just how much more engaging and vivid the experience is zapping up and down the 'box rather than being largely stuck in one or at best two gears most of the time down a good B road.
With shorter gearing, you are changing gear more often to reach a given range of speeds. Simple, objective fact. Whether this is a good or bad thing is another matter, of course, and is subjective. If you are happy changing gear less often, the longer gearing is fine. If not, it's not fine.
If someone has chosen the manual option specifically to ensure a certain kind of interactivity, it's not a terribly huge leap of deductive reasoning to grasp why the long gearing might be a bit disappointing / an impediment to enjoyment and engagement.
It's also one of those things where it's easy to drive the car and think, 'this isn't so bad, what's the problem', given the cars in question tend to be bloody good for the most part. When in fact were you given the opportunity to try shorter gearing it might be a penny-drop moment of realisation as it becomes obvious just how much more engaging and vivid the experience is zapping up and down the 'box rather than being largely stuck in one or at best two gears most of the time down a good B road.
diffstar said:
I think there is some truth to this comment to be honesty with you.
Not saying the gearing isn’t long, but I don’t think it detracts too much from the experience.
Emperors clothes syndrome here, the journos and YouTubers just what the last guy said for fear of looking odd. Not a real world review or owner.
Probably true that many or even most of the comments about the gearing are essentially just people jumping on the bandwagon / trying to look discerning and well informed. But that doesn't mean the point they're all parroting isn't right.Not saying the gearing isn’t long, but I don’t think it detracts too much from the experience.
Emperors clothes syndrome here, the journos and YouTubers just what the last guy said for fear of looking odd. Not a real world review or owner.
Popular opinions are certainly at least as often wrong as right. In this case, personally think the sheeple view has got it right for once. The gearing is a pity. Doesn't ruin the car, but it would be lots more fun with shorter ratios 1-4.
I haven’t got my Spyder yet, so purely me watching other people’s opinions on YouTube, but doesn’t the longer gearing mean you can use 1st as a driving gear? i’ve never had a car where i’d change down to 1st at 15mph for example, you’d just sit in 2nd normally, so is that possibly a nice thing to be able to do?
The gearing is long if you think you have live at 6000RPM+ ON THE ROAD the whole time..... which of course you don't.
You do need some range in the gearing even on a tight and twisty back road and as has been said you have the option to use all 6 gears - including 1st!.
I can't comprehend this notion, that you have to be able to redline in every gear in order to have fun or say that the car has proper ratios?
Porsche need to balance a lot of things... and 8/10 their judgement is totally correct and works for pretty much all of the people that actually own and drive the cars.
You do need some range in the gearing even on a tight and twisty back road and as has been said you have the option to use all 6 gears - including 1st!.
I can't comprehend this notion, that you have to be able to redline in every gear in order to have fun or say that the car has proper ratios?
Porsche need to balance a lot of things... and 8/10 their judgement is totally correct and works for pretty much all of the people that actually own and drive the cars.
Edited by TDT on Monday 15th March 09:03
MG Ant said:
Frankly, this would suit me... long gears like this don't make much sense on the road.
They don't - but they make perfect sense on a fast-flowing track. I drive a 987S, which is also geared very long for the UK roads, but is geared perfectly for track driving. Also remember that the UK has quite low speed limits - in countries such as Germany with higher / no speed limits the gearing also works well.
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