BAR to run car at Bonneville to test top speed of an F1 car
Discussion
Wow, interesting stuff.
[quote=GP.com]
BAR-Honda is to send a car to the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah in October to see what the top speed of an F1 car can be in an out-and-out burst of speed. The BAR-Honda 007 is expected to be driven by James Rossiter and will probably feature no wings and perhaps a cockpit canopy. The car will also be fitted with a rear parachutee to slow it down after the run, which are being staged as a promotion for Lucky Strike.
The Bonneville Flats are famous for their record-breaking, which began in 1914 when Teddy Tezlaff drove a Blitzen Benz to set an unofficial land speed record of 141.73mph in 1914. In 1935 Malcolm Campbell took his Bluebird to a new record of 301.129mph and the record came down at Bonneville six more times before Craig Breedlove broke 400mph at Bonneville in 1963 in his Spirit of America. In 1964 Breedlove broke the 500mph barrier at Bonneville and a year later he took the record up to 600.601mph. That record would stand for five years before Gary Gabelich's 622.407mph run. This was the last outright land speed record set at Bonneville with the Thrust programmes of the 1980s and 1990s taking place in the Black Rock Desert.[/quote]
[quote=GP.com]
BAR-Honda is to send a car to the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah in October to see what the top speed of an F1 car can be in an out-and-out burst of speed. The BAR-Honda 007 is expected to be driven by James Rossiter and will probably feature no wings and perhaps a cockpit canopy. The car will also be fitted with a rear parachutee to slow it down after the run, which are being staged as a promotion for Lucky Strike.
The Bonneville Flats are famous for their record-breaking, which began in 1914 when Teddy Tezlaff drove a Blitzen Benz to set an unofficial land speed record of 141.73mph in 1914. In 1935 Malcolm Campbell took his Bluebird to a new record of 301.129mph and the record came down at Bonneville six more times before Craig Breedlove broke 400mph at Bonneville in 1963 in his Spirit of America. In 1964 Breedlove broke the 500mph barrier at Bonneville and a year later he took the record up to 600.601mph. That record would stand for five years before Gary Gabelich's 622.407mph run. This was the last outright land speed record set at Bonneville with the Thrust programmes of the 1980s and 1990s taking place in the Black Rock Desert.[/quote]
Malcolm Campbell's 1935 Bluebird weighed 4000kg and had a 2300bhp engine, it did 301mph.
A Formula One car weighs 600kg and has an 800-900bhp engine.
So it weighs around six times less than Bluebird, will have better aerodynamics/smaller profile and is only 2.5 times less the power of Bluebird.
I think without wings and geared properly it'll go over 300mph. Only revs and gearing will slow it, I'd say 330mph.
A Formula One car weighs 600kg and has an 800-900bhp engine.
So it weighs around six times less than Bluebird, will have better aerodynamics/smaller profile and is only 2.5 times less the power of Bluebird.
I think without wings and geared properly it'll go over 300mph. Only revs and gearing will slow it, I'd say 330mph.
remember, with the right gearing and a long enough run up, a fiesta is theoretically capable of 300mph!
IMHO, it will probably run our of puff around 240 mph. Be interesting to see what would happen if they did the same experiment with an IRL/CART type car as well, being somewhat heavier.
Mind you, none of them will hit 300mph in under five seconds, LOL
IMHO, it will probably run our of puff around 240 mph. Be interesting to see what would happen if they did the same experiment with an IRL/CART type car as well, being somewhat heavier.
Mind you, none of them will hit 300mph in under five seconds, LOL
Total tosh from start to finish.
Although the absolute Land Speed Record has not been won at Bonneville since 1970, the venue is used EVERY YEAR for speed runs. And quite a few of the cars that run there could EASILY beat an F1 car. Of course, the cars that run regularly at Booneville are specialist "lake bed" cars but many can touch 300 mph, which is way beyond an F1 car.
If an F1 car was to make a realistic "fast" run at Bonneville over (say) a flying kilomtere or a flying mile, it would need to be seriously modified. For a start, I wouldn't even sit in an F1 car for an attempt like this without the suspension being substantially beefed up. Also, I would expect that most of the aerodynamic downforce would need to be removed. Modern F1 cars have a bad drag co-efficient which seriously hamper straight line speed - the be all and end all of speed runs on the lake bed.
Although the absolute Land Speed Record has not been won at Bonneville since 1970, the venue is used EVERY YEAR for speed runs. And quite a few of the cars that run there could EASILY beat an F1 car. Of course, the cars that run regularly at Booneville are specialist "lake bed" cars but many can touch 300 mph, which is way beyond an F1 car.
If an F1 car was to make a realistic "fast" run at Bonneville over (say) a flying kilomtere or a flying mile, it would need to be seriously modified. For a start, I wouldn't even sit in an F1 car for an attempt like this without the suspension being substantially beefed up. Also, I would expect that most of the aerodynamic downforce would need to be removed. Modern F1 cars have a bad drag co-efficient which seriously hamper straight line speed - the be all and end all of speed runs on the lake bed.
I would say in the region of 250-260mph as well.
There are IMHO several factors to be taken into consideration - the first is how long the engine can sustain maximum revs. I would guess that this would be less than 60 secs at vmax, which would put a limit on how long of a run-up the car will have in top gear. Then the gearing - will they do some "special" gears or just go with the longest they have? Also, there is the rolling resistance of the tyres to consider.
Then there is the aero - unless they shroud those tyres, they will have massive drag-induging parts open to the airstream, and which have a substantial cross-sectional area. IIRC, about 25-35% of an F1 car's drag comes from the tyres, so unless they do something with them, the run might not be that quick. Plus, when you consider the whole aero package is designed around generating downforce, it might not actually be that slippery, even if you started taking off wings and airboxes. Doing that could also introduce instability.
Given that in low-downforce trim, a current F1 car tops out at about 220mph, I don't think 250-260 is out of the question if they make some slightly-illegal-for-f1 tweaks.
[k]
There are IMHO several factors to be taken into consideration - the first is how long the engine can sustain maximum revs. I would guess that this would be less than 60 secs at vmax, which would put a limit on how long of a run-up the car will have in top gear. Then the gearing - will they do some "special" gears or just go with the longest they have? Also, there is the rolling resistance of the tyres to consider.
Then there is the aero - unless they shroud those tyres, they will have massive drag-induging parts open to the airstream, and which have a substantial cross-sectional area. IIRC, about 25-35% of an F1 car's drag comes from the tyres, so unless they do something with them, the run might not be that quick. Plus, when you consider the whole aero package is designed around generating downforce, it might not actually be that slippery, even if you started taking off wings and airboxes. Doing that could also introduce instability.
Given that in low-downforce trim, a current F1 car tops out at about 220mph, I don't think 250-260 is out of the question if they make some slightly-illegal-for-f1 tweaks.
[k]
Same as if they took the wings off and add a canopy, as per the OP 
. In retrospect, as this is a marketing gimmick, they may just whack on a low-downforce aero kit and fit the longest gearing they have. I doubt BAR themselves would divert research time and resources to something like this, in which case I doubt we would see much above 220-230mph. Of course, Honda may have done some work themselves, in which case the higher figure may be possible.
[k]
. In retrospect, as this is a marketing gimmick, they may just whack on a low-downforce aero kit and fit the longest gearing they have. I doubt BAR themselves would divert research time and resources to something like this, in which case I doubt we would see much above 220-230mph. Of course, Honda may have done some work themselves, in which case the higher figure may be possible. [k]
FourWheelDrift said:
Wow, interesting stuff.
GP.com said:
BAR-Honda is to send a car to the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah in October to see what the top speed of an F1 car can be in an out-and-out burst of speed. The BAR-Honda 007 is expected to be driven by James Rossiter and will probably feature no wings and perhaps a cockpit canopy. The car will also be fitted with a rear parachutee to slow it down after the run, which are being staged as a promotion for Lucky Strike.
The Bonneville Flats are famous for their record-breaking, which began in 1914 when Teddy Tezlaff drove a Blitzen Benz to set an unofficial land speed record of 141.73mph in 1914. In 1935 Malcolm Campbell took his Bluebird to a new record of 301.129mph and the record came down at Bonneville six more times before Craig Breedlove broke 400mph at Bonneville in 1963 in his Spirit of America. In 1964 Breedlove broke the 500mph barrier at Bonneville and a year later he took the record up to 600.601mph. That record would stand for five years before Gary Gabelich's 622.407mph run. This was the last outright land speed record set at Bonneville with the Thrust programmes of the 1980s and 1990s taking place in the Black Rock Desert.
Im going to be there on Sept 14th for Bonneville speed week, unfortunateley not for the october meeting. If anyone is interested I will post some pictures when I get back.
Hey it's worked already - we're all talking about it and we'll not be the only ones...and I bet it'll be on Top Gear too.
FWIW, the lake surface is not Magny Cours smooth - how can they engineer in enough suspension travel to cope with the bumps?....how about they stick the body on a modified Range Rover chassis for a start?
I hear that they approached Peter Dumbreck and Mark Webber to drive the car but they both turned thhe drive down ;-)
FWIW, the lake surface is not Magny Cours smooth - how can they engineer in enough suspension travel to cope with the bumps?....how about they stick the body on a modified Range Rover chassis for a start?
I hear that they approached Peter Dumbreck and Mark Webber to drive the car but they both turned thhe drive down ;-)
from what i have read, a BAR chap said the car would run in a configuration that was possible at a GP circuit. Thus Monza or Hockeniem (Pre course reduction) style wings and gearing.
The idea of their participation being to see how fast the car could go in existing configurations rather than running tiny wings and a heavily modified set up.
The idea of their participation being to see how fast the car could go in existing configurations rather than running tiny wings and a heavily modified set up.
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