Cash cow low traffic fines £500million

[saaby93]

6000 fines £0.5 million collected in fines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56419277
edited to update figures

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 17th March 15:53

[Greg_D]

So what’s the motivation, reduce traffic or reduce emissions?

What about if you live there, is your car exempt from the fines, what about your visitors?

What if the road is blocked and there’s a fire? Or the ambulance needs to get through.

These sorts of problems are never a straightforward fix.

[Four Litre]

Sold as something its not.

Nobody in London thinks "yeah ,I will jump in my car and go for a drive for fun". All that happens is that people see a blocked road and take the long way round, sitting in more congestion, creating more emissions, wasting more energy and losing the country money via lost productivity.

But the council get to make up their shortfall as a result. That's really all that matters.

[Type R Tom]

Four Litre said:

Nobody in London thinks "yeah ,I will jump in my car and go for a drive for fun". All that happens is that people see a blocked road and take the long way round, sitting in more congestion, creating more emissions, wasting more energy and losing the country money via lost productivity.

Maybe not but a massive chunk are lazy. While there will always people that need a car, 1/3 of car trips are less 2km and another 1/3 between 2 & 5km. Some of these could be walked/cycled.

The way people go on about LTN's, you'd think London was some free flowing driving eutopia before LTN's were introduced.

It's really not about making money, if people are paying fines then the scheme isn't working!

[CraigyMc]

saaby93 said:

£5 million collected in fines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56419277

Why does the thread title refer to £500m?

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

CraigyMc said:

saaby93 said:

£5 million collected in fines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56419277

Why does the thread title refer to £500m?

I've told you a 100 times not to exaggerate

[CraigyMc]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

CraigyMc said:

saaby93 said:

£5 million collected in fines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56419277

Why does the thread title refer to £500m?

I've told you a 100 times not to exaggerate

[Liokault]

And the actual news guy says it’s £500k

[saaby93]

Liokault said:

And the actual news guy says it’s £500k

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

By half past eight it will be a fiver at this rate

[SCEtoAUX]

Should be called "Low traffic in wealthy neighbourhoods".

[Type R Tom]

SCEtoAUX said:

Should be called "Low traffic in wealthy neighbourhoods".

Not necessarily

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349639064...

[Ian Geary]

Four Litre said:

Sold as something its not.

Nobody in London thinks "yeah ,I will jump in my car and go for a drive for fun". All that happens is that people see a blocked road and take the long way round, sitting in more congestion, creating more emissions, wasting more energy and losing the country money via lost productivity.

But the council get to make up their shortfall as a result. That's really all that matters.

£500k (if it hasn't dropped further?) is peanuts in terms of London boroughs' budgets.

Councillors generally don't like a bad headline for anything less than £100k..if this is across multiple Councils then I am sure the fine income is not the driver (pun intended) just ancillary to the necessary enforcement to make them work.

No, they are about something far more powerful than money...they are about principles.

I think a lot of drivers wish they were about cash, because that would be easier to fight against.

I read about school streets, and play streets. It brings to light the fundamental point about why the nation has spent billions of pounds linking up houses and towns with big grey strips of reinforced surface.

Was it to play on? Or enable personal and business transport to take place effectively.

Cyclists love them, but the cyclists crowd is not exactly representative.

Given societies don't generally deal with extremes well, i think more effort is needed to understand and engage with opponents of these schemes, especially as those opponents are at the sharp end and understand the impact much more clearly.

[Jasandjules]

Ian Geary said:

No, they are about something far more powerful than money...they are about principles.
.

To be clear you are suggesting the the Govt and Politicians value principles over money?

[Type R Tom]

Ian Geary said:

£500k (if it hasn't dropped further?) is peanuts in terms of London boroughs' budgets.

Councillors generally don't like a bad headline for anything less than £100k..if this is across multiple Councils then I am sure the fine income is not the driver (pun intended) just ancillary to the necessary enforcement to make them work.

No, they are about something far more powerful than money...they are about principles.

I think a lot of drivers wish they were about cash, because that would be easier to fight against.

I read about school streets, and play streets. It brings to light the fundamental point about why the nation has spent billions of pounds linking up houses and towns with big grey strips of reinforced surface.

Was it to play on? Or enable personal and business transport to take place effectively.

Cyclists love them, but the cyclists crowd is not exactly representative.

Given societies don't generally deal with extremes well, i think more effort is needed to understand and engage with opponents of these schemes, especially as those opponents are at the sharp end and understand the impact much more clearly.

Money is never the motivator, well not at an officer level at least. If tickets are being issued even after a period of bed in, there is probably something wrong.

The problem with your comment about building roads, most in London pre-date the car by a long time. Cars have taken over the space with millions of square m taken up with the storage of personal property.

Driving in London has increased in recent years but not on the main roads that have stayed consistent. Millions of miles are now down residential streets, most likely due to sat nav.

For public health and congestion (for those who need to drive) we need to get those who can out of their cars in our cities. Walking and cycling is the best option and that needs to be done on quiet back roads where they feel safe. The hardcore bike commuter will stay on the main ones.

[handpaper]

According to the news piece, the power to do this kind of thing has been granted to councils in order to 'fight Covid'.
So what happens when Covid is over (for whatever value of 'over')? Do the councils remove the blockages, signage, and cameras and we all go back to how it was before? Or do they, now illegally, continue to block roads and issue fines, until forced to stop?

[z4RRSchris]

i have two cars, and do drive every week in london. i’ve also moved to an LTN area, one way in and out for a community of maybe 15 streets. call it 300 houses maybe.

i love it,

but lots don’t because they can’t drive the 1.2km to muswell hill now quickly and it takes them 5 mins longer. they pretend it’s about disabled people, women’s safety, ambulances, fires, poor minorities on main roads etc etc etc, but it’s really just because they want to drive places quicker in their car.

i know it’s a car forum but years in london i really couldn’t care less about enjoying a car anymore, just cycle, walk, get the tube / bus, it’s not enjoyable driving, and it will be banned soon enough,

[saaby93]

z4RRSchris said:

i have two cars, and do drive every week in london. i’ve also moved to an LTN area, one way in and out for a community of maybe 15 streets. call it 300 houses maybe.

i love it,

but lots don’t because they can’t drive the 1.2km to muswell hill now quickly and it takes them 5 mins longer. they pretend it’s about disabled people, women’s safety, ambulances, fires, poor minorities on main roads etc etc etc, but it’s really just because they want to drive places quicker in their car.

i know it’s a car forum but years in london i really couldn’t care less about enjoying a car anymore, just cycle, walk, get the tube / bus, it’s not enjoyable driving, and it will be banned soon enough,

Doesnt it shift the traffic that would have gone through there onto other neighbourhoods - are they happy with that?
Suppose the places at the ends of those two roads decided they wanted to stop them up?

[neilr]

I dont live in London but when a 'quietway' (the equivelant of a LTN in London) was put in the local people reacted as if the council had mined their driveways and attached car bombs to all their cars.

It was ridiculous, grown adults behaving like selfish greedy narcisistic children. THis is in spite of no fines and none planned, and being able to still drive to and from their homes.

It was slightly disruptive as it effectively created a one way system if you lived in the roads affected. Despite this they complained s much to the council with things such as " how will ambulances get through or get to the next town along?" The answer to which was' the same as they always have' as the roads affected werent through routes for traffic. One overly entitled woman complained she " had to drive down a residentail road to get to school to pick up my son" So, you had to drive down a road then.

Again despte protestations of 'I never see anyone using it" people did use it, my self included. I always saw others on it for the short time it was there. The council capitulated and removed it after 3 weeks.

There isn't an easy answer. Pollution is a problem. After all, its not like we have to breathe the air is it. Oh wait, we do. However, folks still do need to use their cars. People who arent OAPs or disabled should be encourged to walk and cycle for local journeys less thena couple of miles.. This country is too fking fat by half, THe NHS facing an obesity crisis a bit of walking and cycling might help.

If these zones are used as cash cows though then the public will never be convinced, and i dont blame them, cynical money grabbing from corrupt scum in westminster and local councils

[Type R Tom]

The weaponization of the elderly, disabled, and now minority groups by the pro-car lobby in LTNs has been absolutely disgusting. Most of these people (including cab drivers) could not give a toss about the average disabled person but they have all of a sudden turned into a white knight defending the weak.

In the decades I have worked in this area I have never once been approached by a member of the public that does not have a direct link with someone with mobility issues raising concern on their behalf. Now every person out there is worried about how someone in a wheelchair gets to the shops.

Anyone who uses these groups to defend their desire to drive anywhere and everywhere unhindered should be ashamed of themselves.