Have we reached peak divide?
Discussion
Every day is seems that more division is being served out by the media and more worryingly endorsed by a lot of very vocal people, some in positions of influence. I thought as time went by more divisions would come down and we would look at people as ....people! Not by sexuality, sex, skin colour etc etc.
Its seems that we are now going into an era of real division, pretty much every day be it on here, social media, Television or the radio, I will read orr hear something along the lines of....
- Men are all perverted murderers
- If you support Labour your a left wing nut job
- If you support the conservatives your a right wing extremist
- If you voted for Trump your a racist dog who needs to be shot
- If you voted Biden your a left wing lunatic who wants to ruin America
- If you voted brexit your a xenophobe / racist / gammon
- White people are holding any person of colour back
- All white people are guilty of slavery
- Every historic statue is racist
- Endorse LGBT outwardly or your part of the problem
- Disagree with 2 sexes only and your a right wing maniac who should be ostracized by society
I've always strongly believed its peoples attitudes that matter most, something that I have taught my kids, far more than colour or sexual identify. My concerns are that we have some real assholes spouting further division everyday. My teenage daughter truly believed that racism was only possibly if directed at a black person, as I pointed out that mocking a portugese accent was technically racist.
I feel that we have gone back, way back as a nation over the last 2-3 years, with more division than ever being sewn. And more importantly the people doing this seem to be holding the microphone. Are we destined for a life of extremes, with no middle ground.
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Four Litre said:
Every day is seems that more division is being served out by the media and more worryingly endorsed by a lot of very vocal people, some in positions of influence. I thought as time went by more divisions would come down and we would look at people as ....people! Not by sexuality, sex, skin colour etc etc.
Its seems that we are now going into an era of real division, pretty much every day be it on here, social media, Television or the radio, I will read orr hear something along the lines of....
- Men are all perverted murderers
- If you support Labour your a left wing nut job
- If you support the conservatives your a right wing extremist
- If you voted for Trump your a racist dog who needs to be shot
- If you voted Biden your a left wing lunatic who wants to ruin America
- If you voted brexit your a xenophobe / racist / gammon
- White people are holding any person of colour back
- All white people are guilty of slavery
- Every historic statue is racist
- Endorse LGBT outwardly or your part of the problem
- Disagree with 2 sexes only and your a right wing maniac who should be ostracized by society
I've always strongly believed its peoples attitudes that matter most, something that I have taught my kids, far more than colour or sexual identify. My concerns are that we have some real assholes spouting further division everyday. My teenage daughter truly believed that racism was only possibly if directed at a black person, as I pointed out that mocking a portugese accent was technically racist.
I feel that we have gone back, way back as a nation over the last 2-3 years, with more division than ever being sewn. And more importantly the people doing this seem to be holding the microphone. Are we destined for a life of extremes, with no middle ground.
-
Agreed. We should unify against the only real enemy.Its seems that we are now going into an era of real division, pretty much every day be it on here, social media, Television or the radio, I will read orr hear something along the lines of....
- Men are all perverted murderers
- If you support Labour your a left wing nut job
- If you support the conservatives your a right wing extremist
- If you voted for Trump your a racist dog who needs to be shot
- If you voted Biden your a left wing lunatic who wants to ruin America
- If you voted brexit your a xenophobe / racist / gammon
- White people are holding any person of colour back
- All white people are guilty of slavery
- Every historic statue is racist
- Endorse LGBT outwardly or your part of the problem
- Disagree with 2 sexes only and your a right wing maniac who should be ostracized by society
I've always strongly believed its peoples attitudes that matter most, something that I have taught my kids, far more than colour or sexual identify. My concerns are that we have some real assholes spouting further division everyday. My teenage daughter truly believed that racism was only possibly if directed at a black person, as I pointed out that mocking a portugese accent was technically racist.
I feel that we have gone back, way back as a nation over the last 2-3 years, with more division than ever being sewn. And more importantly the people doing this seem to be holding the microphone. Are we destined for a life of extremes, with no middle ground.
-
Gingers.
“Have we reached peak divide?”
Worryingly, I’d say not. Not in the UK and not in America.
My predictions are likely to be mocked instead of debated, (yet further proving your points), but I think that the USA will divide into two separate countries. How peacefully that divorce happens remains to be seen, but history teaches us many times over that such separations are never truly peaceful.
As for the UK, I don’t think we’re there yet. Yes, there is extremism on both sides of the political isle, but it’s one side in particular that seems to be pushing the extremism over the other.
I think we’ve gone past the point of no return. However this works out, it isn’t going to be pretty.
Perhaps a more pertinent question should be, to whom does such division in the West benefit the most?
Worryingly, I’d say not. Not in the UK and not in America.
My predictions are likely to be mocked instead of debated, (yet further proving your points), but I think that the USA will divide into two separate countries. How peacefully that divorce happens remains to be seen, but history teaches us many times over that such separations are never truly peaceful.
As for the UK, I don’t think we’re there yet. Yes, there is extremism on both sides of the political isle, but it’s one side in particular that seems to be pushing the extremism over the other.
I think we’ve gone past the point of no return. However this works out, it isn’t going to be pretty.
Perhaps a more pertinent question should be, to whom does such division in the West benefit the most?
ks. I have to keep my opinions to myself so as not to jeopardise my earnings. Four Litre said:
Every day is seems that more division is being served out by the media and more worryingly endorsed by a lot of very vocal people, some in positions of influence. I thought as time went by more divisions would come down and we would look at people as ....people! Not by sexuality, sex, skin colour etc etc.
Its seems that we are now going into an era of real division, pretty much every day be it on here, social media, Television or the radio, I will read orr hear something along the lines of....
- Men are all perverted murderers
- If you support Labour your a left wing nut job
- If you support the conservatives your a right wing extremist
- If you voted for Trump your a racist dog who needs to be shot
- If you voted Biden your a left wing lunatic who wants to ruin America
- If you voted brexit your a xenophobe / racist / gammon
- White people are holding any person of colour back
- All white people are guilty of slavery
- Every historic statue is racist
- Endorse LGBT outwardly or your part of the problem
- Disagree with 2 sexes only and your a right wing maniac who should be ostracized by society
I've always strongly believed its peoples attitudes that matter most, something that I have taught my kids, far more than colour or sexual identify. My concerns are that we have some real assholes spouting further division everyday. My teenage daughter truly believed that racism was only possibly if directed at a black person, as I pointed out that mocking a portugese accent was technically racist.
I feel that we have gone back, way back as a nation over the last 2-3 years, with more division than ever being sewn. And more importantly the people doing this seem to be holding the microphone. Are we destined for a life of extremes, with no middle ground.
-
You can see as you go down your list, how division over the years has worked to create mindsets of victimhood, of otherness. The media has pushed the divisions to sell papers, get clicks and keep viewers. They find out what hits the buttons of their audience, and smash those buttons as hard as they can, again and again. Its seems that we are now going into an era of real division, pretty much every day be it on here, social media, Television or the radio, I will read orr hear something along the lines of....
- Men are all perverted murderers
- If you support Labour your a left wing nut job
- If you support the conservatives your a right wing extremist
- If you voted for Trump your a racist dog who needs to be shot
- If you voted Biden your a left wing lunatic who wants to ruin America
- If you voted brexit your a xenophobe / racist / gammon
- White people are holding any person of colour back
- All white people are guilty of slavery
- Every historic statue is racist
- Endorse LGBT outwardly or your part of the problem
- Disagree with 2 sexes only and your a right wing maniac who should be ostracized by society
I've always strongly believed its peoples attitudes that matter most, something that I have taught my kids, far more than colour or sexual identify. My concerns are that we have some real assholes spouting further division everyday. My teenage daughter truly believed that racism was only possibly if directed at a black person, as I pointed out that mocking a portugese accent was technically racist.
I feel that we have gone back, way back as a nation over the last 2-3 years, with more division than ever being sewn. And more importantly the people doing this seem to be holding the microphone. Are we destined for a life of extremes, with no middle ground.
-
On forums such as this, you see the people who love to cause division. Who'll deliberate inflame and attack others, instead of debating a point honestly and with an open mind. The people who'll troll and deliberately wind people up for their own gratification.
The "left" suffer from this obsession with ideological purity; the "Endorse LGBT outwardly or your part of the problem" thing; if you're not supporting the cause strongly or purely enough, you're the enemy. It is nasty and divisive. Compromise becomes impossible because it needs them to move away from their idealogical purity.
The right suffer from an obsession with faux-victimhood. Take the "Men are all perverted murderers" thing, since thats the hot topic. Surveys of women show that alot of them have experienced some kind of disturbing behaviour from a man. Some see the word "man", seem to think "I'm a man, they're accusing me!" and launch into this faux-victimisation of how they're being accused of all sorts of nasty things. And it makes compromise impossible because they don't want to engage with the real problem because it feels like an attack on them.
My observations on the whole thing. Take it as just that and not an academic deep dive.
What everyone should think about is who benefits from the seeds of tribalism and divide being sewn and perpetuated by e.g. opaque social media advertising campaigns and fringe group funding.
Nation states used to unite against common enemies and fight them, our adversaries have worked out its easier to get us to fight ourselves.
Nation states used to unite against common enemies and fight them, our adversaries have worked out its easier to get us to fight ourselves.
I don't agree that these divisions are caused by the media. In the 70s when I was kid there was P*** bashing and far greater fear of gay people coming out of the closet. In the 40s there was Nazism. Hundreds of years ago there was widespread slavery.
I'm suggesting the OP is trying to say that the people causing a fuss about prejudice are the ones that have actually started it.
I'm suggesting the OP is trying to say that the people causing a fuss about prejudice are the ones that have actually started it.
105.4 said:
“Have we reached peak divide?”
Worryingly, I’d say not. Not in the UK and not in America.
My predictions are likely to be mocked instead of debated, (yet further proving your points), but I think that the USA will divide into two separate countries. How peacefully that divorce happens remains to be seen, but history teaches us many times over that such separations are never truly peaceful.
As for the UK, I don’t think we’re there yet. Yes, there is extremism on both sides of the political isle, but it’s one side in particular that seems to be pushing the extremism over the other.
I think we’ve gone past the point of no return. However this works out, it isn’t going to be pretty.
Perhaps a more pertinent question should be, to whom does such division in the West benefit the most?
Not to be mocked at all. I predict the left and right divisions will get further apart and more extreme as well. Wars are more often that not the end result of this. Worryingly, I’d say not. Not in the UK and not in America.
My predictions are likely to be mocked instead of debated, (yet further proving your points), but I think that the USA will divide into two separate countries. How peacefully that divorce happens remains to be seen, but history teaches us many times over that such separations are never truly peaceful.
As for the UK, I don’t think we’re there yet. Yes, there is extremism on both sides of the political isle, but it’s one side in particular that seems to be pushing the extremism over the other.
I think we’ve gone past the point of no return. However this works out, it isn’t going to be pretty.
Perhaps a more pertinent question should be, to whom does such division in the West benefit the most?
It seems the central ground where I would of thought most reside seems to be lost. Probably because we have work to do and a family to support.
Randy Winkman said:
I don't agree that these divisions are caused by the media. In the 70s when I was kid there was P*** bashing and far greater fear of gay people coming out of the closet. In the 40s there was Nazism. Hundreds of years ago there was widespread slavery.
I'm suggesting the OP is trying to say that the people causing a fuss about prejudice are the ones that have actually started it.
When you put it that way - maybe we have gone full circle. Agree with your comments as when I speak to my FIL beating up anyone who didnt fit in was normal in the 60's / 70's.I'm suggesting the OP is trying to say that the people causing a fuss about prejudice are the ones that have actually started it.
I've said it on numerous threads now that the reason this is all boiling up is because there is a large push from the "progressives" in society (especially since 2008), to change the current way of things for the purpose of gaining more power, influence and votes.
What do I mean by "progressives"? These are people who want to constantly change society in to something that fits their world view. There are progressives on all sides of the political spectrum , take Brexit for example, this was a cross-spectrum progressive push. (Which the BBC were keen to label as "populist" politics).
But.... the main progressives are the ones that like to call themselves "revolutionists" and these firmly sit on the left wing. They usually oppose capitalist development and root back to socialism as their ideology.
These progressives also primarily sign up to the "cultural Marxist" ideology which came about when the traditional Marxist ideology based upon the economic class struggle fell apart when the Berlin wall came down. Ever since then the new "revolutionists" focus on "cultural marxism" as their bedrock to form arguments for change.
This bedrock that they sit up on is not based up on economic class struggle anymore, it is instead based up on group identity politics. And through group identity politics you can create all the narratives in the world for fabricating "inequality".
The "inequality" narrative has been quite effective for riling people up, making people quite angry, generating hate and divide and so on.
Its been unbelievably effective to be honest, playing on human nature to generate hate and division.
When you are able to place the thought in to people's minds that they are not a successful millionaire because they've been oppressed by another identity group within society, then it is easy for people to start blaming others for their own failures.
And that is what we have seen grow rapidly over the past decade. Many people have developed a grand sense of entitlement due to this.
The problem is that as marixst ideologies have been around for many decades there are well established techniques of argument and manipulation in play which fool many people who become suckered in to accepting their "inequalities" and "group identities".
The whole cancellation culture, silencing, media targeting, rioting and bricks through windows etc. etc. are nothing new, this is what used to happen in socialist/communist countries to break down society so that they can not fight back to a rational, sensible and self-determined way of life. The only new change to this is that some of the methods of targeting are now done online.
So, I think we may have reached peak divide as you put it, but I think the peak will be stretched out along a plateau before it recedes back to a position where society is mostly at peace with itself. The problem being that left wing progressives are very active in the background, plotting this that and the other with renta-mob riots at the drop of a pin, along with 'correct' mindset people in positions of education and government, along with endless lobby groups that keep a constant pressure on governments to change policies to their liking.
The only saviour we still have in the UK is our freedom of choice (to an extent) on who we can elect to run the country. We are always free to elect a party that rebuts all this left wing bullshine, and elect local leaders who have desires to see through the dirt and keep society on the straight and narrow.
As with many issues, its down to us.
What do I mean by "progressives"? These are people who want to constantly change society in to something that fits their world view. There are progressives on all sides of the political spectrum , take Brexit for example, this was a cross-spectrum progressive push. (Which the BBC were keen to label as "populist" politics).
But.... the main progressives are the ones that like to call themselves "revolutionists" and these firmly sit on the left wing. They usually oppose capitalist development and root back to socialism as their ideology.
These progressives also primarily sign up to the "cultural Marxist" ideology which came about when the traditional Marxist ideology based upon the economic class struggle fell apart when the Berlin wall came down. Ever since then the new "revolutionists" focus on "cultural marxism" as their bedrock to form arguments for change.
This bedrock that they sit up on is not based up on economic class struggle anymore, it is instead based up on group identity politics. And through group identity politics you can create all the narratives in the world for fabricating "inequality".
The "inequality" narrative has been quite effective for riling people up, making people quite angry, generating hate and divide and so on.
Its been unbelievably effective to be honest, playing on human nature to generate hate and division.
When you are able to place the thought in to people's minds that they are not a successful millionaire because they've been oppressed by another identity group within society, then it is easy for people to start blaming others for their own failures.
And that is what we have seen grow rapidly over the past decade. Many people have developed a grand sense of entitlement due to this.
The problem is that as marixst ideologies have been around for many decades there are well established techniques of argument and manipulation in play which fool many people who become suckered in to accepting their "inequalities" and "group identities".
The whole cancellation culture, silencing, media targeting, rioting and bricks through windows etc. etc. are nothing new, this is what used to happen in socialist/communist countries to break down society so that they can not fight back to a rational, sensible and self-determined way of life. The only new change to this is that some of the methods of targeting are now done online.
So, I think we may have reached peak divide as you put it, but I think the peak will be stretched out along a plateau before it recedes back to a position where society is mostly at peace with itself. The problem being that left wing progressives are very active in the background, plotting this that and the other with renta-mob riots at the drop of a pin, along with 'correct' mindset people in positions of education and government, along with endless lobby groups that keep a constant pressure on governments to change policies to their liking.
The only saviour we still have in the UK is our freedom of choice (to an extent) on who we can elect to run the country. We are always free to elect a party that rebuts all this left wing bullshine, and elect local leaders who have desires to see through the dirt and keep society on the straight and narrow.
As with many issues, its down to us.
Edited by GroundZero on Wednesday 17th March 15:52
So true - and can think of so many other examples. Huge infight in Scotland over independence currently for eg rather than a respectful debate.
I teach my kids that its OK to have opinions without prejudice even if someone else doesn't like that opinion or agree. Listen to them and always make up your own mind.
I've always loved a chat about politics and life stuff but often don't do it any more as so many judge you if they disagree and it isn't part of their echo chamber - that's pretty tragic. I'm not very keen on any but the genuinely needy bypassing our borders and immigration policies let alone our COVID checks but some of my more left mates would really judge me for thinking that and file me in the same category as Farage, despite it being a valid and moderate POV, and despite some of my views being well left and virtue signallingly altruistic! So yes, they shut me up and then all you hear is them. Unhealthy and creates tribalism.
One thing is for sure - it will get worse
I teach my kids that its OK to have opinions without prejudice even if someone else doesn't like that opinion or agree. Listen to them and always make up your own mind.
I've always loved a chat about politics and life stuff but often don't do it any more as so many judge you if they disagree and it isn't part of their echo chamber - that's pretty tragic. I'm not very keen on any but the genuinely needy bypassing our borders and immigration policies let alone our COVID checks but some of my more left mates would really judge me for thinking that and file me in the same category as Farage, despite it being a valid and moderate POV, and despite some of my views being well left and virtue signallingly altruistic! So yes, they shut me up and then all you hear is them. Unhealthy and creates tribalism.
One thing is for sure - it will get worse
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