Settle an argument...PCP and ownership in event engine pops
Discussion
Chaps -
hoping for some advice.
On the cusp of pulling the trigger on a disco 5..
Various scare stories oniine about the 2.0 litre diesel having a high failure rate, 3.0 snapping cranks etc. - usual internet scaremongering
however - an engine rebuild to the tune of 10k-15k would not be at all pallatable to me if it were to let go at some time over the coming few years.
This is the argumant that I would like to settle..... - Pal of mine say that if a car financed by PCP, and the engine goes bang through manufacture defect, it can effectively be returned, and be the issue becomes one for the finance co and the dealer/manufacturer to sort out.
without delving into the small print of an contracts - wouldnt mind a view from the PH massive as to whether this is generally tha case?
I'm broadly aware of the 50% hand back (though i guess chronalogically this is more than 50% of the term)... but have never heard of this being an benefit of a PCP type deal? surely it would be better know if it were the case (which was why I called bulls
t.... 
)
Anyhows - thta my conundrum - whats the view?
hoping for some advice.
On the cusp of pulling the trigger on a disco 5..
Various scare stories oniine about the 2.0 litre diesel having a high failure rate, 3.0 snapping cranks etc. - usual internet scaremongering
however - an engine rebuild to the tune of 10k-15k would not be at all pallatable to me if it were to let go at some time over the coming few years.
This is the argumant that I would like to settle..... - Pal of mine say that if a car financed by PCP, and the engine goes bang through manufacture defect, it can effectively be returned, and be the issue becomes one for the finance co and the dealer/manufacturer to sort out.
without delving into the small print of an contracts - wouldnt mind a view from the PH massive as to whether this is generally tha case?
I'm broadly aware of the 50% hand back (though i guess chronalogically this is more than 50% of the term)... but have never heard of this being an benefit of a PCP type deal? surely it would be better know if it were the case (which was why I called bulls
t.... )Anyhows - thta my conundrum - whats the view?
Not sure what the exact rules are for failures outside of warranty.
With warranty failures, if the dealer does not sort things, technically the finance company is the supplier of the car and you can go after them.
The 50% thing is generally meant to mean your right to "Voluntary Terminate" under the consumer credit act. If you've paid more than 50% of the total amount, you can basically hand the car back and walk away.
However you have to be careful as its supposed to be returned in "reasonable condition". I doubt that a blown engine would constitute that. So you may get damage charges. Also a lot of PCP contracts have quite strict rules on mileage, servicing damage etc too.
With warranty failures, if the dealer does not sort things, technically the finance company is the supplier of the car and you can go after them.
The 50% thing is generally meant to mean your right to "Voluntary Terminate" under the consumer credit act. If you've paid more than 50% of the total amount, you can basically hand the car back and walk away.
However you have to be careful as its supposed to be returned in "reasonable condition". I doubt that a blown engine would constitute that. So you may get damage charges. Also a lot of PCP contracts have quite strict rules on mileage, servicing damage etc too.
I don't think you could "return" it, unless it came within the usual window of rejecting it. Six months, something like that?
If it does go bang I'm sure JLR would replace the engine without any cost to you, but I don't think they would let you just say "well I don't want that anymore, give me my money back".
If it does go bang I'm sure JLR would replace the engine without any cost to you, but I don't think they would let you just say "well I don't want that anymore, give me my money back".
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
If it does go bang I'm sure JLR would replace the engine without any cost to you
would this not neccesitate an extended warrenty or similar?I remember a few horror stories on the porsche forums year ago about the IMS/RMS failures and owners (the unlucky 2%/5%/10% dependant on how paranoid you are/who's stats you believe), being saddled with the huge rebuild bill, as the cars were outside warrenty.
Are JLR any different when it come to engine failure through regular use?
And dont forget the 6 month protection under the sales of goods act is split into 2 parts.
The first 3 months it is assumed the fault existed at point of sale unless able to prove otherwise
The last 3 months you have to prove the fault existed.
Sounds like a play on words but is very important if you are trying to reject a car or get it fixed as "unfit for purpose" under consumer rights.
The first 3 months it is assumed the fault existed at point of sale unless able to prove otherwise
The last 3 months you have to prove the fault existed.
Sounds like a play on words but is very important if you are trying to reject a car or get it fixed as "unfit for purpose" under consumer rights.
BERGS2 said:
would this not neccesitate an extended warrenty or similar?
I remember a few horror stories on the porsche forums year ago about the IMS/RMS failures and owners (the unlucky 2%/5%/10% dependant on how paranoid you are/who's stats you believe), being saddled with the huge rebuild bill, as the cars were outside warrenty.
Are JLR any different when it come to engine failure through regular use?
I don't mean this to be as flippant as it probably sounds, but if you're going into JLR ownership, especially a new(ish) one, I presumed the warranty was a given. I would not be inclined to own one without the warranty. Then again that applies to any premium brand. I remember a few horror stories on the porsche forums year ago about the IMS/RMS failures and owners (the unlucky 2%/5%/10% dependant on how paranoid you are/who's stats you believe), being saddled with the huge rebuild bill, as the cars were outside warrenty.
Are JLR any different when it come to engine failure through regular use?
Yes it'll need to be in warranty. If not then it'll be up to you to fork out, unless you can prove very conclusively that the failure was down to manufacturer error rather than wear and tear.
Well, two things occur to me that may or may not be useful to your decision-making.
1) JLR’s reliability and breakdown scores are mostly not good. If you ignore internet discussion boards
;) and look at reputable sources such as the warranty stats and JD Power, Which etc. - they all seem to wave some warning flags. Add that to your hesitation, would you feel relaxed if you pulled the trigger? Maybe JLR products are best enjoyed from new, on a lease with a JLR warranty.
2) Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
But, what do I know? I have leased 2 new JLR cars in the last 15 years - never again. Very troublesome. Glad I didn’t own them. But I am a sample size of ONE.
Good luck with whatever you go for.
1) JLR’s reliability and breakdown scores are mostly not good. If you ignore internet discussion boards
;) and look at reputable sources such as the warranty stats and JD Power, Which etc. - they all seem to wave some warning flags. Add that to your hesitation, would you feel relaxed if you pulled the trigger? Maybe JLR products are best enjoyed from new, on a lease with a JLR warranty. 2) Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
But, what do I know? I have leased 2 new JLR cars in the last 15 years - never again. Very troublesome. Glad I didn’t own them. But I am a sample size of ONE.
Good luck with whatever you go for.
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
I don't mean this to be as flippant as it probably sounds, but if you're going into JLR ownership, especially a new(ish) one, I presumed the warranty was a given. I would not be inclined to own one without the warranty. Then again that applies to any premium brand.
Yes it'll need to be in warranty. If not then it'll be up to you to fork out, unless you can prove very conclusively that the failure was down to manufacturer error rather than wear and tear.
My understanding is (happy to be corrected) that JLR exclude things like snapped cranks from the extended warranty because it's a design fault.Yes it'll need to be in warranty. If not then it'll be up to you to fork out, unless you can prove very conclusively that the failure was down to manufacturer error rather than wear and tear.
Can't make it up can you
SteveR1979 said:
Wheel_Turned_Out said:
I don't mean this to be as flippant as it probably sounds, but if you're going into JLR ownership, especially a new(ish) one, I presumed the warranty was a given. I would not be inclined to own one without the warranty. Then again that applies to any premium brand.
Yes it'll need to be in warranty. If not then it'll be up to you to fork out, unless you can prove very conclusively that the failure was down to manufacturer error rather than wear and tear.
My understanding is (happy to be corrected) that JLR exclude things like snapped cranks from the extended warranty because it's a design fault.Yes it'll need to be in warranty. If not then it'll be up to you to fork out, unless you can prove very conclusively that the failure was down to manufacturer error rather than wear and tear.
Can't make it up can you
I guess the only options really are to either avoid altogether, or keep a ferocious slush fund at the ready.
SteveR1979 said:
My understanding is (happy to be corrected) that JLR exclude things like snapped cranks from the extended warranty because it's a design fault.
Can't make it up can you
Really??Can't make it up can you
I would have though - ethically - that the presence of a known design fault would mean that failures if FULLY MAINTAINED & serviced, there would be coverage in some way, irrespective of warrenty?
(i'm not saying there is a known design fault, but if an engine in a car thats designed for a service life of x hundred thousand miles, lets go on a fraction of that, is it fairly evident)
Is it possible to actually abuse these these days? (ie run low on oil, thrash from cold, mechanical sympathy etc. its all logged in the black box, no?)
If what you are saying is correct - the logical flow would be this this:
- Punter buys a car supposbly reputed to be tough - (lets ignore JD survey data for now...)
- Punter buy a warranty for a grand a year, primarily to cover the risk of major mechanical failure
- Punter suffer one of the aforementioned mechanical failures
& has no recourse when the engine lets go??? surely not?!?
Straying from the core thread point here - but the economic of warranties on a three year old car are interesting - would love to see the stats on risk vs. coverage.
side note - this makes quite interesting reading
Anecdotally, LR are covering the cost of replacement engines, provided you’ve kept up with the servicing using their dealer network and not outside at an indie.
I have you tried quoting for PCP on a brand new car (without the worries of warranties)? In every case I tried it worked out cheaper than PCP on one a couple of years old.
I have you tried quoting for PCP on a brand new car (without the worries of warranties)? In every case I tried it worked out cheaper than PCP on one a couple of years old.
HTP99 said:
essayer said:
PCP is just a hire purchase agreement with an optional final instalment. There'll be a clause about keeping the vehicle "properly maintained and in good condition". Engine failing outside warranty is a you problem.
This. Psycho Warren said:
And dont forget the 6 month protection under the sales of goods act is split into 2 parts.
The first 3 months it is assumed the fault existed at point of sale unless able to prove otherwise
The last 3 months you have to prove the fault existed.
Sounds like a play on words but is very important if you are trying to reject a car or get it fixed as "unfit for purpose" under consumer rights.
Sale of goods act is no more. Under the Consumer Rights Act (2015) if a product develops a fault within the first six months after purchase, it's assumed it has been present since the time of purchase.The first 3 months it is assumed the fault existed at point of sale unless able to prove otherwise
The last 3 months you have to prove the fault existed.
Sounds like a play on words but is very important if you are trying to reject a car or get it fixed as "unfit for purpose" under consumer rights.
So - done a bit more digging - here is the policy wording: & yes, black & white on P11:
https://landrover-extendedwarranty-extend-open.mot...
“Engine
Failure of the following internal mechanical parts only: Starter ring gear, flywheel, oil pump, crankshaft and bearings, timing gears, Variable Valve Timing control unit (VVT), timing chain and cam belt, camshafts, cam followers, tappet gear, valves and guides, pistons and rings, cylinder bores, con rods, cylinder head, cylinder head gaskets and all internal bushings (excluding lacquered valves or failures due to carbon deposits).”
Assumably cranks dont just ‘snap’ though? One would imagine a mechanical failure would be a precursor to this?
The garage I’m looking to buy from is a landrover specialist, but offers warranties from Autoprotect.
There doesnt seem to be an awful lot in the way of positives about warranty companies out there!
https://landrover-extendedwarranty-extend-open.mot...
“Engine
Failure of the following internal mechanical parts only: Starter ring gear, flywheel, oil pump, crankshaft and bearings, timing gears, Variable Valve Timing control unit (VVT), timing chain and cam belt, camshafts, cam followers, tappet gear, valves and guides, pistons and rings, cylinder bores, con rods, cylinder head, cylinder head gaskets and all internal bushings (excluding lacquered valves or failures due to carbon deposits).”
Assumably cranks dont just ‘snap’ though? One would imagine a mechanical failure would be a precursor to this?
The garage I’m looking to buy from is a landrover specialist, but offers warranties from Autoprotect.
There doesnt seem to be an awful lot in the way of positives about warranty companies out there!
BERGS2 said:
So - done a bit more digging - here is the policy wording: & yes, black & white on P11:
https://landrover-extendedwarranty-extend-open.mot...
“Engine
Failure of the following internal mechanical parts only: Starter ring gear, flywheel, oil pump, crankshaft and bearings, timing gears, Variable Valve Timing control unit (VVT), timing chain and cam belt, camshafts, cam followers, tappet gear, valves and guides, pistons and rings, cylinder bores, con rods, cylinder head, cylinder head gaskets and all internal bushings (excluding lacquered valves or failures due to carbon deposits).”
Assumably cranks dont just ‘snap’ though? One would imagine a mechanical failure would be a precursor to this?
The garage I’m looking to buy from is a landrover specialist, but offers warranties from Autoprotect.
There doesnt seem to be an awful lot in the way of positives about warranty companies out there!
You've quoted a LR warranty clause but the warranty in this case will be from Autoprotect. 3rd party warranties are notoriously shttps://landrover-extendedwarranty-extend-open.mot...
“Engine
Failure of the following internal mechanical parts only: Starter ring gear, flywheel, oil pump, crankshaft and bearings, timing gears, Variable Valve Timing control unit (VVT), timing chain and cam belt, camshafts, cam followers, tappet gear, valves and guides, pistons and rings, cylinder bores, con rods, cylinder head, cylinder head gaskets and all internal bushings (excluding lacquered valves or failures due to carbon deposits).”
Assumably cranks dont just ‘snap’ though? One would imagine a mechanical failure would be a precursor to this?
The garage I’m looking to buy from is a landrover specialist, but offers warranties from Autoprotect.
There doesnt seem to be an awful lot in the way of positives about warranty companies out there!
t and I wouldn't trust it.I would only buy a 2nd hand car like a D5 from a dealer, with a manufacturer warranty. You can generally extend these for a fee at the end of each year, if you keep the servicing up to date.
Sheepshanks said:
HTP99 said:
essayer said:
PCP is just a hire purchase agreement with an optional final instalment. There'll be a clause about keeping the vehicle "properly maintained and in good condition". Engine failing outside warranty is a you problem.
This. BERGS2 said:
Chaps -
hoping for some advice.
On the cusp of pulling the trigger on a disco 5..
Various scare stories oniine about the 2.0 litre diesel having a high failure rate, 3.0 snapping cranks etc. - usual internet scaremongering
however - an engine rebuild to the tune of 10k-15k would not be at all pallatable to me if it were to let go at some time over the coming few years.
This is the argumant that I would like to settle..... - Pal of mine say that if a car financed by PCP, and the engine goes bang through manufacture defect, it can effectively be returned, and be the issue becomes one for the finance co and the dealer/manufacturer to sort out.
without delving into the small print of an contracts - wouldnt mind a view from the PH massive as to whether this is generally tha case?
I'm broadly aware of the 50% hand back (though i guess chronalogically this is more than 50% of the term)... but have never heard of this being an benefit of a PCP type deal? surely it would be better know if it were the case (which was why I called bullst.... )
Anyhows - thta my conundrum - whats the view?
Given the situation, why buy a car with a reputation for unreliability?hoping for some advice.
On the cusp of pulling the trigger on a disco 5..
Various scare stories oniine about the 2.0 litre diesel having a high failure rate, 3.0 snapping cranks etc. - usual internet scaremongering
however - an engine rebuild to the tune of 10k-15k would not be at all pallatable to me if it were to let go at some time over the coming few years.
This is the argumant that I would like to settle..... - Pal of mine say that if a car financed by PCP, and the engine goes bang through manufacture defect, it can effectively be returned, and be the issue becomes one for the finance co and the dealer/manufacturer to sort out.
without delving into the small print of an contracts - wouldnt mind a view from the PH massive as to whether this is generally tha case?
I'm broadly aware of the 50% hand back (though i guess chronalogically this is more than 50% of the term)... but have never heard of this being an benefit of a PCP type deal? surely it would be better know if it were the case (which was why I called bulls
t.... )Anyhows - thta my conundrum - whats the view?
Why not buy a car with a reputation for reliability - say, a Toyota Landcruiser?
Is my logic sound - or not?
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