UK 'heading towards digital skills shortage disaster'
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UK 'heading towards digital skills shortage disaster'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56479304
The UK is heading towards a "catastrophic" digital skills shortage "disaster", a think tank has warned.
The Learning & Work Institute says the number of young people taking IT subjects at GCSE has dropped 40% since 2015.
Meanwhile, consulting giant Accenture says demand for AI, cloud and robotics skills is soaring.
Experts say digital skills are vital to economic recovery following the pandemic.
The Learning & Work Institute's research reveals that 70% of young people expect employers to invest in teaching them digital skills on the job, but only half of the employers surveyed in the study are able to provide that training...................continues
This is what even eventually happens when you close down the industries of a country, degrade learning at schools, and turn the country into a service supplier. Step forward M.Thatcher. When I was at school, my education was aimed directly at getting a job, almost certainly an apprenticeship. A 5yr apprenticeship, college evening classes, and then, for me, a lifetime career in engineering. I think 90% of the boys in my class went into industry. Today, youngsters think of appearing on a bloody reality TV show, win a TV talent show, or get a bloody useless (not worth much) degree in something.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56479304
The UK is heading towards a "catastrophic" digital skills shortage "disaster", a think tank has warned.
The Learning & Work Institute says the number of young people taking IT subjects at GCSE has dropped 40% since 2015.
Meanwhile, consulting giant Accenture says demand for AI, cloud and robotics skills is soaring.
Experts say digital skills are vital to economic recovery following the pandemic.
The Learning & Work Institute's research reveals that 70% of young people expect employers to invest in teaching them digital skills on the job, but only half of the employers surveyed in the study are able to provide that training...................continues
This is what even eventually happens when you close down the industries of a country, degrade learning at schools, and turn the country into a service supplier. Step forward M.Thatcher. When I was at school, my education was aimed directly at getting a job, almost certainly an apprenticeship. A 5yr apprenticeship, college evening classes, and then, for me, a lifetime career in engineering. I think 90% of the boys in my class went into industry. Today, youngsters think of appearing on a bloody reality TV show, win a TV talent show, or get a bloody useless (not worth much) degree in something.
markiii said:
The Learning & Work Institute says the number of young people taking IT subjects at GCSE has dropped 40% since 2015.
blaming maggie for that s somewhat of a stretch
She started it, it's taken this long before it turned out to be the disaster many predicted. blaming maggie for that s somewhat of a stretch
The decline of UK manufacturing is devastating - it’s time to change course
https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/decline-uk-manufactur...
"The article shows that, between 1960 and 2015, of all advanced economies, the UK saw a greater drop in manufacturing employment than any country apart from Switzerland. Manufacturing employment in the UK fell by more than 0.4 per cent per year over those 55 years, a rate twice as high as Italy and Spain, and higher than Germany, Norway, Sweden, France and the US, among others. This cannot be an accident. Instead, it was a matter of policy. A belief in the importance of services, especially financial services, convinced politicians that it was OK to allow manufacturing employment to decline. Coupled to this was the Thatcherite faith in free market economics, which led its practitioners to believe that new industries would emerge to fill the gaps. But in large swathes of our manufacturing heartlands, those new industries didn’t appear, leading to a dearth of quality jobs for working people. With those quality jobs went the dignity that meaningful work provides to the worker.".......continues
Always been the case sadly. - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
Britain doesn't like techy people...
Britain doesn't like techy people...
robinessex said:
UK 'heading towards digital skills shortage disaster'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56479304
The UK is heading towards a "catastrophic" digital skills shortage "disaster", a think tank has warned.
The Learning & Work Institute says the number of young people taking IT subjects at GCSE has dropped 40% since 2015.
Meanwhile, consulting giant Accenture says demand for AI, cloud and robotics skills is soaring.
Experts say digital skills are vital to economic recovery following the pandemic.
The Learning & Work Institute's research reveals that 70% of young people expect employers to invest in teaching them digital skills on the job, but only half of the employers surveyed in the study are able to provide that training...................continues
This is what even eventually happens when you close down the industries of a country, degrade learning at schools, and turn the country into a service supplier. Step forward M.Thatcher. When I was at school, my education was aimed directly at getting a job, almost certainly an apprenticeship. A 5yr apprenticeship, college evening classes, and then, for me, a lifetime career in engineering. I think 90% of the boys in my class went into industry. Today, youngsters think of appearing on a bloody reality TV show, win a TV talent show, or get a bloody useless (not worth much) degree in something.
What should kids do? Bin off GCSE English/History/Maths for Robotics or AI...Not many schools have them on the curriculum. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56479304
The UK is heading towards a "catastrophic" digital skills shortage "disaster", a think tank has warned.
The Learning & Work Institute says the number of young people taking IT subjects at GCSE has dropped 40% since 2015.
Meanwhile, consulting giant Accenture says demand for AI, cloud and robotics skills is soaring.
Experts say digital skills are vital to economic recovery following the pandemic.
The Learning & Work Institute's research reveals that 70% of young people expect employers to invest in teaching them digital skills on the job, but only half of the employers surveyed in the study are able to provide that training...................continues
This is what even eventually happens when you close down the industries of a country, degrade learning at schools, and turn the country into a service supplier. Step forward M.Thatcher. When I was at school, my education was aimed directly at getting a job, almost certainly an apprenticeship. A 5yr apprenticeship, college evening classes, and then, for me, a lifetime career in engineering. I think 90% of the boys in my class went into industry. Today, youngsters think of appearing on a bloody reality TV show, win a TV talent show, or get a bloody useless (not worth much) degree in something.
What are digital skills? I guess i am a smidge younger than you but left high school in 1994 and at best i['d farted around with a 386DX2 a couple of times. Despite my "disasterous" lack of digital skills i've done alright in a digital world, worked for two pre IPO start ups through acquisition and witnessed many others do the same.
Maybe we should rethink our assumptions from the sh*te spewed out experts/BBC/latest w*nk spouting institute and let the kids learn the old fashioned stuff and not mandate that they are all horse shoed into being AI gurus by their teens.
The above may come across as needlessly snarky. I don't mean it to be. I'm suggesting things aren't all that bad and we're unlikely to succumb to a digital disaster.
Edited by cavey76 on Monday 22 March 21:45
It seems this country is heading for a workforce mostly on minimum wage, zero hour contracts or gig economy work, with a tiny number of really wealthy investors or financiers creaming off the profits.
Have worked in various manufacturing industries through my career and massive job losses, takeovers by overseas companies and stagnant salaries are commonplace.
Have worked in various manufacturing industries through my career and massive job losses, takeovers by overseas companies and stagnant salaries are commonplace.
There was a lively discussion about this on my local FB group between some people who seemed to be in the know.
The consensus is that the IT GCSE is outdated and the kids know it so they avoid.
By definition the IT industry changes faster than a course curriculum can.
Or it could be Margaret Thatcher's fault of course, and the TUC could have the answers, as unlikely as that may seem.
The consensus is that the IT GCSE is outdated and the kids know it so they avoid.
By definition the IT industry changes faster than a course curriculum can.
Or it could be Margaret Thatcher's fault of course, and the TUC could have the answers, as unlikely as that may seem.
You can blame Thatcher for many things but it's been 30 years... and a a substantial part of that was a progressive high investment "education, education, education" Labour party in power.
Now one issue is they encouraged getting a degree but at the same time allowed the degrees to be devalued.
An alternative approach (as degrees aren't for everyone) would have been to push more foundation / HNDs, etc to bridge the gap from A-levels to a more technical entry to comp-sci, etc.The other issue is that "IT / digital tech" isn't widely supported by academics who prefer the purity of compsci / maths / etc as a first degree (which has merits but doesn't reflect what industry necessarily wants)
The world faces a shortage of "digital skills". Satya Nadalla of Microsoft estimates that 5% of GDP is spent on tech, and that will double by 2030.
Now one issue is they encouraged getting a degree but at the same time allowed the degrees to be devalued.
An alternative approach (as degrees aren't for everyone) would have been to push more foundation / HNDs, etc to bridge the gap from A-levels to a more technical entry to comp-sci, etc.The other issue is that "IT / digital tech" isn't widely supported by academics who prefer the purity of compsci / maths / etc as a first degree (which has merits but doesn't reflect what industry necessarily wants)
The world faces a shortage of "digital skills". Satya Nadalla of Microsoft estimates that 5% of GDP is spent on tech, and that will double by 2030.
I am the last person to stick up for Thatcher however.....
She was one of the architects of getting the then fledgling BBC Acorn computers into every school and sparking the interest that got thousands of children to buy and use home computers such as the sinclair spectrum.
This led to us being one of the world leaders in IT at the time
Staying on topic, we should be jumping on this, training the young and those with an interest, post Brexit these sort of industries are a no brainer for growth and employment.
She was one of the architects of getting the then fledgling BBC Acorn computers into every school and sparking the interest that got thousands of children to buy and use home computers such as the sinclair spectrum.
This led to us being one of the world leaders in IT at the time
Staying on topic, we should be jumping on this, training the young and those with an interest, post Brexit these sort of industries are a no brainer for growth and employment.
My experience of school IT teaching is helping a friends kids do their IT GCSE homework. Despite 27 years in the business, I find the questions vague, difficult to answer correctly and frequently impossible to answer if you have more than a superficial knowledge of the subject. Most of them can only be answered with “er, it depends, would you like 16 options....”.
I find it really difficult to learn stuff with abstract problems. I thought computers were utterly useless things at school (BBC B era), then I discovered that calculus was quite hard at Uni (3rd year thermodynamics still brings back nightmares, especially with the realisation that there was 4th year thermodynamics to come), I learned FORTRAN in a week and never looked back.
Am I worried that no kids are doing “computer” GCSEs - not in the slightest. Or A level for that matter. A solid Maths grounding will get them doing Comp Sci or Engineering quite happily. Am I worried that more of them aren’t doing STEM subjects at Uni - sure.
I find it really difficult to learn stuff with abstract problems. I thought computers were utterly useless things at school (BBC B era), then I discovered that calculus was quite hard at Uni (3rd year thermodynamics still brings back nightmares, especially with the realisation that there was 4th year thermodynamics to come), I learned FORTRAN in a week and never looked back.
Am I worried that no kids are doing “computer” GCSEs - not in the slightest. Or A level for that matter. A solid Maths grounding will get them doing Comp Sci or Engineering quite happily. Am I worried that more of them aren’t doing STEM subjects at Uni - sure.
My belief is things aren't as bad as think tanks like to portray. if their headline was,"m'eh,we could do better but we are fair to middling as a nation" it would grab less headlines and by consequence less funding for them from the myriad groups they lobby. I had a quick look at their website.
So "Age Concern" and "Centre for Ageing Better" are funders along with the British Army. I get the latter. I can see the Forces wanting to ensure there are opportunities on Civvy St. Age Concern though? Whats that all about?
I've just resigned from a large American blue chip, (named after its home city) because the lack of dynamism kills me. Apart from my delusions of grandeur thinking i am better than i probably am, they are a damn good employer. They take on technical grads and apprentices in the UK every year. There are no complaints about the standards. Reality is the majority of SW & Product is developed in the US with smaller pockets of specialism or localisation overseas.
One noticeable thing is the amount of employees in HQ (onshore in the US) from India. I believe H-1B visas, usually Indian kids who have come out of one of the many technical universities and decide to make their way to the US. My former employer is a great supporter of this structure and rightly so, they need a sh*tload of technical people and India spews them out. If these guys can improve their lot and are prepared to head to the US good on them, American dream and all that.
Back to the UK.
Are we broadly producing less qualified people? I doubt it very much. Are we producing less of them? Almost certainly!
Is secondary school IT up to much, probably not but it doesnt hold people back from getting "digital jobs"
I am wholly against getting 13,14 or 15 year olds to decide on a vocational subject at such a young age but if you did want to go that way you could do worse than allowing them to take industry standard certs. Cisco, Redhat, MSFT. I am not endorsing that BUT it could be a means to give real technie technical skills.
What does "digital" mean anyway? Someone can use the full suite of MS or Google Tools when they hit employment? I'd suggest we are well on the way to that and Covid has likely accelerated it.
Deep technical coding skills are lesser here? Well its possible that they are less well rewarded, the appetite for start up risk is less but thats cultural in the UK (and mostly everywhere) versus the US and latterly China.
Saying that we have a thriving Fintech sector (fusion of finance and technology)in the UK.
Apologies i am rambling but the TL:DR is, Its not that bad, the kids are all right!
So "Age Concern" and "Centre for Ageing Better" are funders along with the British Army. I get the latter. I can see the Forces wanting to ensure there are opportunities on Civvy St. Age Concern though? Whats that all about?
I've just resigned from a large American blue chip, (named after its home city) because the lack of dynamism kills me. Apart from my delusions of grandeur thinking i am better than i probably am, they are a damn good employer. They take on technical grads and apprentices in the UK every year. There are no complaints about the standards. Reality is the majority of SW & Product is developed in the US with smaller pockets of specialism or localisation overseas.
One noticeable thing is the amount of employees in HQ (onshore in the US) from India. I believe H-1B visas, usually Indian kids who have come out of one of the many technical universities and decide to make their way to the US. My former employer is a great supporter of this structure and rightly so, they need a sh*tload of technical people and India spews them out. If these guys can improve their lot and are prepared to head to the US good on them, American dream and all that.
Back to the UK.
Are we broadly producing less qualified people? I doubt it very much. Are we producing less of them? Almost certainly!
Is secondary school IT up to much, probably not but it doesnt hold people back from getting "digital jobs"
I am wholly against getting 13,14 or 15 year olds to decide on a vocational subject at such a young age but if you did want to go that way you could do worse than allowing them to take industry standard certs. Cisco, Redhat, MSFT. I am not endorsing that BUT it could be a means to give real technie technical skills.
What does "digital" mean anyway? Someone can use the full suite of MS or Google Tools when they hit employment? I'd suggest we are well on the way to that and Covid has likely accelerated it.
Deep technical coding skills are lesser here? Well its possible that they are less well rewarded, the appetite for start up risk is less but thats cultural in the UK (and mostly everywhere) versus the US and latterly China.
Saying that we have a thriving Fintech sector (fusion of finance and technology)in the UK.
Apologies i am rambling but the TL:DR is, Its not that bad, the kids are all right!
There's a whole generation of middle aged workers in this country with skills that are becoming obsolete but are too young to retire. Many of them would happily re-train - I know because I'm one of them. Try getting through the ageist firewall that surrounds the digital sector though! How about some kind of "second start" initiative for people half way through their working life instead of being obsessed with the young?
robinessex said:
Meanwhile, consulting giant Accenture says demand for AI, cloud and robotics skills is soaring.
Bloke with 25yrs under his belt at the IT coalface said:
UK IT recruitment for raw trainees is pathetic, because rather than invest in young homegrown talent, UK blue chips are all heavily invested with the likes of Accenture, who farm all the Dev work out to bodyshops in India
Slightly unrelated perhaps but back when I had to pick my subjects for GCSE (which was around 2003/4)...
I obviously had the Maths/English/Science standard stuff. Then with my career path I took Art, and Design & Technology.
Being a bit techy/geeky I wanted to take IT too as it would keep my future open but I couldn't. However I had to take Religious Education, French or German (I took German), and Welsh. None of which has been any use to me since.
If my current career (which is very niche with very few jobs available) went tits up, I would be interested in pursuing an IT career, but although I know the basics pretty well, I would have to completely retrain and start from scratch.
I obviously had the Maths/English/Science standard stuff. Then with my career path I took Art, and Design & Technology.
Being a bit techy/geeky I wanted to take IT too as it would keep my future open but I couldn't. However I had to take Religious Education, French or German (I took German), and Welsh. None of which has been any use to me since.
If my current career (which is very niche with very few jobs available) went tits up, I would be interested in pursuing an IT career, but although I know the basics pretty well, I would have to completely retrain and start from scratch.
Edited by BenRichards89 on Wednesday 24th March 01:55
It's been over 20 years since I did a GCSE in IT , I also did CLAIT an and there were compulsory IT classes at uni in the first year to make sure everyone has a basic level. I'd still estimate over 90% of what I know about computers is self taught.
Unless things have changed drastically I wouldn't be at all surprised if kids still get taught how to type a letter ,make a database an spreadsheet in MS works and maybe some html editing in wordpad which is enough to consider them IT literate
Unless things have changed drastically I wouldn't be at all surprised if kids still get taught how to type a letter ,make a database an spreadsheet in MS works and maybe some html editing in wordpad which is enough to consider them IT literate
MitchT said:
There's a whole generation of middle aged workers in this country with skills that are becoming obsolete but are too young poor to retire. Many of them would happily re-train - I know because I'm one of them. Try getting through the ageist firewall that surrounds the digital sector though! How about some kind of "second start" initiative for people half way through their working life instead of being obsessed with the young?
EFA35 years ago when i did GCSE Computer Studies. Most people had no idea about tech. So as a means to get basically computer literate it was useful to some.
However content was outdated by the time i had any use for it.
These days i would consider most of the population basically computer literate and the tech moves so fast I'd say an IT based GCSE is almost pointless
However content was outdated by the time i had any use for it.
These days i would consider most of the population basically computer literate and the tech moves so fast I'd say an IT based GCSE is almost pointless
markiii said:
35 years ago when i did GCSE Computer Studies. Most people had no idea about tech. So as a means to get basically computer literate it was useful to some.
However content was outdated by the time i had any use for it.
These days i would consider most of the population basically computer literate and the tech moves so fast I'd say an IT based GCSE is almost pointless
I agree. In the 1960s and 70s none of were taught TV, radio, record player or tape recording skills as part of the school curriculum.However content was outdated by the time i had any use for it.
These days i would consider most of the population basically computer literate and the tech moves so fast I'd say an IT based GCSE is almost pointless
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