Nationwide can WFA
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56510574
This is pretty huge for members of my family. My sis in law travels from Surrey to Swindon 4 days a week, involving overnight stays, hours of driving, CO2 emissions etc. All that will be gone. This is great news. I understand the company will save a boatload from closing the offices they won't need also.
This is pretty huge for members of my family. My sis in law travels from Surrey to Swindon 4 days a week, involving overnight stays, hours of driving, CO2 emissions etc. All that will be gone. This is great news. I understand the company will save a boatload from closing the offices they won't need also.
Snap! I was going to post this in the WFH thread.
Certainly a bold move for the UK, where WFH has been traditionally shunned.
I believe this is a positive thing, as long as it’s optional as not everyone is well equipped for long term home working.
This will certainly reduce congestion, and as you’ve said reduce CO2 emissions.
Certainly a bold move for the UK, where WFH has been traditionally shunned.
I believe this is a positive thing, as long as it’s optional as not everyone is well equipped for long term home working.
This will certainly reduce congestion, and as you’ve said reduce CO2 emissions.
Edited by anxious_ant on Thursday 25th March 09:54
ReallyReallyGood said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56510574
This is pretty huge for members of my family. My sis in law travels from Surrey to Swindon 4 days a week, involving overnight stays, hours of driving, CO2 emissions etc. All that will be gone. This is great news. I understand the company will save a boatload from closing the offices they won't need also.
I listened to the interview. It was very interesting. Apparently staff were making better decisions. This is pretty huge for members of my family. My sis in law travels from Surrey to Swindon 4 days a week, involving overnight stays, hours of driving, CO2 emissions etc. All that will be gone. This is great news. I understand the company will save a boatload from closing the offices they won't need also.
Not compulsory though and i will not work for everyone.
anxious_ant said:
Snap! I was going to post this in the WFH thread.
Certainly a bold move for the UK, where WFH has been traditionally shunned.
I believe this is a positive thing, as long as it’s optional as not everyone is well equipped for long term home working.
This will certainly reduce congestion, and as you’ve said reduce CO2 emissions.
Question though... depending on where you look, some say 1 GB of data produces 3kg of CO2 (that was the US), Certainly a bold move for the UK, where WFH has been traditionally shunned.
I believe this is a positive thing, as long as it’s optional as not everyone is well equipped for long term home working.
This will certainly reduce congestion, and as you’ve said reduce CO2 emissions.
Edited by anxious_ant on Thursday 25th March 09:54
This site: https://observablehq.com/@mrchrisadams/carbon-foot...
Suggests its 1.2 kg, so its not black and white of course, but if we are going to say not travelling will reduce CO2, we need to be sure that the additional usage of services like the internet isn't actually undoing it all. As well, at work the office is one or a handful of heated spaces. Everyone back home now turns that into 10s, maybe 100s of individually heated homes.
Okay, I have had a baby as well in the last year so the washing machine, dishwasher and dryer are on much more regularly, but my utility bills have doubled. We use more gas and more electric now we are WFH.
ETA: my Netgear router keeps tabs on the data used...last month I DL 605 GB and UL 46 GB
(of course I think a lot of that will be Netflix streaming which has shot up because lockdown and WFH)
But if we go with 1.2 kg per GB that is 780 kg of CO2 for the month.
My car is a Prius and I know it does about 5L per round trip to work. 1 litre makes 2.3 kg of CO2. So 1 trip is 4.6 kg. I could do 169 round trips before I produced as much CO2 as my internet connection in a month. That is about 2/3rds of the trips to work in a normal year (say 47 weeks, 5 days a week, 235 days commuting to work).
I wish it kept logs of data use going back to 2019 so I could see how much my monthly data has gone up. Its hard to say otherwise how much data is saved by being at work vs being at home.
ETA2: More: https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/do-i...
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 25th March 10:36
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 25th March 10:38
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 25th March 10:38
Otispunkmeyer said:
Question though... depending on where you look, some say 1 GB of data produces 3kg of CO2 (that was the US),
This site: https://observablehq.com/@mrchrisadams/carbon-foot...
Suggests its 1.2 kg, so its not black and white of course, but if we are going to say not travelling will reduce CO2, we need to be sure that the additional usage of services like the internet isn't actually undoing it all. As well, at work the office is one or a handful of heated spaces. Everyone back home now turns that into 10s, maybe 100s of individually heated homes.
Okay, I have had a baby as well in the last year so the washing machine, dishwasher and dryer are on much more regularly, but my utility bills have doubled. We use more gas and more electric now we are WFH.
Agree that utility bills will increase to an extent, however this is offset by less costs associated by commuting (fuel, servicing (consumables), insurance etc). This site: https://observablehq.com/@mrchrisadams/carbon-foot...
Suggests its 1.2 kg, so its not black and white of course, but if we are going to say not travelling will reduce CO2, we need to be sure that the additional usage of services like the internet isn't actually undoing it all. As well, at work the office is one or a handful of heated spaces. Everyone back home now turns that into 10s, maybe 100s of individually heated homes.
Okay, I have had a baby as well in the last year so the washing machine, dishwasher and dryer are on much more regularly, but my utility bills have doubled. We use more gas and more electric now we are WFH.
CO2 generated by cars being stuck in traffic (vehicles are generally more efficient when they are moving) would, hopefully with flexi working arrangments, reduce. Perhaps this resonates more with me as I have a very traffic heavy commute.
Heating individual homes vs. heating+cooling a big office building? I don't have the numbers for this, but would be interested if someone has.
I think it's great - the amount of traffic on the roads now is making a lot of commutes by road unrealistic and - for me - hugely stressful.
I've been working in IT - usually as a contractor - and for some reason the majority of my working life since 1991 has been in either south Manchester or Leeds. I live north of Rochdale. It's gone from leave at 7,30 am and fly into work on an empty motorway to leaving at 6am and you still get pinchpoints. Basically if I change jobs again I will have to say that I can't do a commute like that anymore. (Train isn't viable from here - well over two hours each way).
My employer is a big gaming company and they're really good on the old "work life balance" so I used to work from home more and more before Covid, and obviously all the time for over a year now. No way I want to go back to commuting. They've announced that it's been so successful that people can do 4 days a week from home - and my manager just said all the time - when Covid restrictions are dropped.
One thing I have noticed in my career - big companies are MILES better, I've only twice come across companies that don't allow flexible working, and they've both been privately owned, smaller places. The owner wants bums on seats. They usually are the places offering poor holiday allowances too. Pound to a penny they won't like WFH. Bad managers don't like it either - a few years ago I had a line manager who was in Poland. He didn't like me WFH and insisted on my travelling 80 miles round trip to sit on my own in the office. WTF? I just stayed at home and never told him where I was.
I've been schlepping backwards and forwards on the M62 now for so long I've had enough, it's hugely stressful and I see the same cars doing the same pointless thing, week in, week out. What a waste! Hopefully I never have to go back to doing that again.
(I don't buy all that CO2 per gigabyte nonsense either.)
I've been working in IT - usually as a contractor - and for some reason the majority of my working life since 1991 has been in either south Manchester or Leeds. I live north of Rochdale. It's gone from leave at 7,30 am and fly into work on an empty motorway to leaving at 6am and you still get pinchpoints. Basically if I change jobs again I will have to say that I can't do a commute like that anymore. (Train isn't viable from here - well over two hours each way).
My employer is a big gaming company and they're really good on the old "work life balance" so I used to work from home more and more before Covid, and obviously all the time for over a year now. No way I want to go back to commuting. They've announced that it's been so successful that people can do 4 days a week from home - and my manager just said all the time - when Covid restrictions are dropped.
One thing I have noticed in my career - big companies are MILES better, I've only twice come across companies that don't allow flexible working, and they've both been privately owned, smaller places. The owner wants bums on seats. They usually are the places offering poor holiday allowances too. Pound to a penny they won't like WFH. Bad managers don't like it either - a few years ago I had a line manager who was in Poland. He didn't like me WFH and insisted on my travelling 80 miles round trip to sit on my own in the office. WTF? I just stayed at home and never told him where I was.
I've been schlepping backwards and forwards on the M62 now for so long I've had enough, it's hugely stressful and I see the same cars doing the same pointless thing, week in, week out. What a waste! Hopefully I never have to go back to doing that again.
(I don't buy all that CO2 per gigabyte nonsense either.)
Lots of firms tried outsourcing/off shoring but realised it wasn't cost effective due to the decline in quality and constant training that was needed compared to local workers.
One worry with a firm like Nationwide is data security, the potential for fraud or compromised networks must be greater when working from home as people will be more blasé especially when it comes to overhearing conversations.
One worry with a firm like Nationwide is data security, the potential for fraud or compromised networks must be greater when working from home as people will be more blasé especially when it comes to overhearing conversations.
Liokault said:
Just out of interest, if you can work from anywhere, what stops them just hiring from low cost countries?
Timezones. Language. Culture. Ongoing requirements for face-to-face workshops and occasional days in the office.Offshoring and near-shoring can work for certain jobs but there has been a noticeable shift towards bringing many roles back in-country in recent years.
Liokault said:
Just out of interest, if you can work from anywhere, what stops them just hiring from low cost countries?
Bingo.I think a lot of companies will be thinking "if a role can be done remotely, why does it have to be in the UK?"
Some roles will be protected - either through regulation, time zone overlap etc. But IMHO an awful lot of roles are going to be up for grabs globally, and I am not sure that people have fully realised that.
Still a lot to consider before it becomes the norm though.
Will employers demand proof that you have a proper workspace at home? It’s all well and good working from the kitchen table or the end of your bed when it’s a national emergency but in normal times? Not everyone has dedicated offices and studies at home and will that hinder some who cannot afford to move? Employers still have a responsibility to ensure the workplace environment is kosher health&safety wise if nothing to mitigate against possible future claims for bad backs, etc so will their future employee requirements demand a suitable workspace at home?
Travel is another obstacle, especially if you have to commute via public transport. You’re not making any significant savings buying 2 day return tickets a week over an annual gold travel card. If you’re not really saving, you may as well come into the office as normal. Just checked on my route in and a annual season ticket return is roughly £28 per trip compared to over £50 for an anytime peak return. Carnets don’t seem to over much of a saving either.
It seems that there is an awful to consider and a lot change before it becomes the norm for the average office worker.
Will employers demand proof that you have a proper workspace at home? It’s all well and good working from the kitchen table or the end of your bed when it’s a national emergency but in normal times? Not everyone has dedicated offices and studies at home and will that hinder some who cannot afford to move? Employers still have a responsibility to ensure the workplace environment is kosher health&safety wise if nothing to mitigate against possible future claims for bad backs, etc so will their future employee requirements demand a suitable workspace at home?
Travel is another obstacle, especially if you have to commute via public transport. You’re not making any significant savings buying 2 day return tickets a week over an annual gold travel card. If you’re not really saving, you may as well come into the office as normal. Just checked on my route in and a annual season ticket return is roughly £28 per trip compared to over £50 for an anytime peak return. Carnets don’t seem to over much of a saving either.
It seems that there is an awful to consider and a lot change before it becomes the norm for the average office worker.
AmitG said:
Liokault said:
Just out of interest, if you can work from anywhere, what stops them just hiring from low cost countries?
Bingo.I think a lot of companies will be thinking "if a role can be done remotely, why does it have to be in the UK?"
Some roles will be protected - either through regulation, time zone overlap etc. But IMHO an awful lot of roles are going to be up for grabs globally, and I am not sure that people have fully realised that.
Interestingly, my boss is based in Germany, the customer is going to initially be Japanese, production will be in Asia and the design team is in California.
deckster said:
Liokault said:
Just out of interest, if you can work from anywhere, what stops them just hiring from low cost countries?
Timezones. Language. Culture. Ongoing requirements for face-to-face workshops and occasional days in the office.Offshoring and near-shoring can work for certain jobs but there has been a noticeable shift towards bringing many roles back in-country in recent years.
The WFH over the last year forced them to setup systems that supported remote working, this has had the side effect that those systems now support offshore working.
valiant said:
You’re not making any significant savings buying 2 day return tickets a week over an annual gold travel card. If you’re not really saving, you may as well come into the office as normal.
Hard disagree. There are numerous other benefits due to WFH (from an employee's point of view) beyond cost-savings.The time saving alone from lack of commute is huge in most cases. That is time better served doing pretty much anything else whether that be additional work or personal activities. The roads as well become clearer for unavoidable travel.
Liokault said:
AmitG said:
Liokault said:
Just out of interest, if you can work from anywhere, what stops them just hiring from low cost countries?
Bingo.I think a lot of companies will be thinking "if a role can be done remotely, why does it have to be in the UK?"
Some roles will be protected - either through regulation, time zone overlap etc. But IMHO an awful lot of roles are going to be up for grabs globally, and I am not sure that people have fully realised that.
Interestingly, my boss is based in Germany, the customer is going to initially be Japanese, production will be in Asia and the design team is in California.
Companies who persistently hire based on cost is on the race to the bottom.
For me personally it's worked out great as I had a 90 mile round trip a day commute to work, having to get up at 6.30 then be out the door for 7.15 just to make it to the office for 9 and that's on a good day, going along the m62 at peak time is a nightmare.
I've saved about £250 a month in petrol and my insurance has halved since I lowered my mileage.
Also get the £6 tax relief to help with the additional utility bills increase
Agree with the poster above who said big companies are a lot better, since day one my company have been great, need a phone and IT equipment, here you go.
Chairs and desks, no probs we will ship it out to you.
Anything we need to do our jobs is provided right down to extension leads with surge protectors if needed.
I get up about 8 now and log off at 5, no more stressing out about traffic jams or accidents or bad weather and no more getting home at 7 in the evening so I get a lot of time to spend with the kids now when I finish work.
My work/life balance is much better.
Mental health in the workplace is a massive issue at the moment and a lot of progressive companies are bending over backwards to help out their employees.
The only thing I miss about it is the social aspect whereas before instead of sending a email to someone in the building I could just go over and chat to them and not seeing all my friends face to face.
I believe we aren't even discussing going back into the office till 2022 at least at which point it will be optional as they will have to reduce capacity of staff in the building.
I've saved about £250 a month in petrol and my insurance has halved since I lowered my mileage.
Also get the £6 tax relief to help with the additional utility bills increase
Agree with the poster above who said big companies are a lot better, since day one my company have been great, need a phone and IT equipment, here you go.
Chairs and desks, no probs we will ship it out to you.
Anything we need to do our jobs is provided right down to extension leads with surge protectors if needed.
I get up about 8 now and log off at 5, no more stressing out about traffic jams or accidents or bad weather and no more getting home at 7 in the evening so I get a lot of time to spend with the kids now when I finish work.
My work/life balance is much better.
Mental health in the workplace is a massive issue at the moment and a lot of progressive companies are bending over backwards to help out their employees.
The only thing I miss about it is the social aspect whereas before instead of sending a email to someone in the building I could just go over and chat to them and not seeing all my friends face to face.
I believe we aren't even discussing going back into the office till 2022 at least at which point it will be optional as they will have to reduce capacity of staff in the building.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Question though... depending on where you look, some say 1 GB of data produces 3kg of CO2 (that was the US),
This site: https://observablehq.com/@mrchrisadams/carbon-foot...
Suggests its 1.2 kg, so its not black and white of course, but if we are going to say not travelling will reduce CO2, we need to be sure that the additional usage of services like the internet isn't actually undoing it all. As well, at work the office is one or a handful of heated spaces. Everyone back home now turns that into 10s, maybe 100s of individually heated homes.
<snip>
ETA: my Netgear router keeps tabs on the data used...last month I DL 605 GB and UL 46 GB
(of course I think a lot of that will be Netflix streaming which has shot up because lockdown and WFH)
But if we go with 1.2 kg per GB that is 780 kg of CO2 for the month.
<snip>
ETA2: More: https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/do-i...
Servers, switches and routers that run the internet are on 24x7.This site: https://observablehq.com/@mrchrisadams/carbon-foot...
Suggests its 1.2 kg, so its not black and white of course, but if we are going to say not travelling will reduce CO2, we need to be sure that the additional usage of services like the internet isn't actually undoing it all. As well, at work the office is one or a handful of heated spaces. Everyone back home now turns that into 10s, maybe 100s of individually heated homes.
<snip>
ETA: my Netgear router keeps tabs on the data used...last month I DL 605 GB and UL 46 GB
(of course I think a lot of that will be Netflix streaming which has shot up because lockdown and WFH)
But if we go with 1.2 kg per GB that is 780 kg of CO2 for the month.
<snip>
ETA2: More: https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/do-i...
More traffic through switches and routers doesn't mean a significant rise in power consumption.
Server power usage rises when disks are accessed. For the most part, disks are generally the biggest power users in a typical file server.
Many companies operate servers in off premise data centres - so if their users are at home accessing these servers, or sat in the office accessing these servers - there is no difference.
I can't see that WFH internet usage is going to push CO2 usage up over and above normal work patterns (working from office).
Dromedary66 said:
valiant said:
You’re not making any significant savings buying 2 day return tickets a week over an annual gold travel card. If you’re not really saving, you may as well come into the office as normal.
Hard disagree. There are numerous other benefits due to WFH (from an employee's point of view) beyond cost-savings.The time saving alone from lack of commute is huge in most cases. That is time better served doing pretty much anything else whether that be additional work or personal activities. The roads as well become clearer for unavoidable travel.
There are plenty of benefits to wfh and I think the genie is out of the bottle in that I don’t think things will return totally to as before. My point is that the ‘infrastructure’ surrounding commuting and the office environment is still heavily geared towards the 5 day Mon-Fri week and there seems to be little thought on how this will change going forwards which it needs to if it is to support those that will be now only commuting 2 days a week.
I personally don’t see a complete, full-time WFH shift anytime soon and a hybrid work pattern will probably be the new normal.
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