Relocating Aston to EU - options?
Discussion
Can anyone help with understanding risks/options with taking cars to EU for extended periods post Brexit?
Its rambly - apologies. I've tried to learn as much as possible before asking for real-world advice from those with potential genuine experience.
The wife and I are moving to France this year, though (when it again becomes possible) I will still sometimes be flying back to UK or other northern EU states for work. Though moving to EU has now become trickier, Having a French wife does at least mean that getting residence should be a tad easier for me.
I'd like to take my little collection of AM with me. I've been researching how to do it and what the options are, it seems the challenges associated with exporting and reregistering nice stuff, or just running on UK plates is starting too look more onerous or risky in this post Brexit era. I'm certainly learning about what no longer having freedom of movement means in other ways - we cant even take the wife's garden plants in pots without paying for lab testing of the soil in each etc. The beaurocracy is staggering, but ho hum. Theres no point in any Brit complaining about it - the rules for people coming into the EU were all argued for and agreed by the UK when we were members of the club that we then decided to leave
I didn't vote for Brexit, however, others did, it happened and we now have to live with it. Can anyone help me navigate the difficulties of taking high performance or classic cars to France, and running them there in summer for at least a couple of years post Brexit?
It seems I have two options:
1. leave the car/s UK registered and try to navigate staying within both UK and French law and remaining meaningfully insured
2. export the vehicles, re-register in France, pay all the extortionate import fees and environmental taxes and start again with zero insurance NCB (I've over 30 years NCB across various policies).
It seems that there are key risks with option 1 and severe drawbacks with option 2 - if any of you guys can speak from experience on the genuine risks of option 1 it would be extremely helpful.
Option 1 - Leaving them registered in the UK
License - OK, can still use UK license as will remain valid in EU until expiry. DVSA do not update UK license with foreign address, so perversely (and these are typical confusions) - I comply with both UK and French law while driving in France, however if I return to UK and drive, I will technically be breaking the law for not having a current and valid UK address on the licence
MOT/Control Technique
All vehicles must have a valid MOT if on UK plates to comply with UK law. Without it, UK insurance would take dim view and in event of accident would look very closely at compliance with other requirements of a UK policy (time limited visit etc). Of my three AM, one is a classic and doesn't need UK MOT (ie a return UK visit every year) if left UK registered, also free tax, but would need CT if reregistered. Its possible for me to return to UK every year with the other two cars for an MOT though
Tax/RFL
To be legal, a UK registered car should have UK RFL, however not having it (and indeed why should anyone pay for UK roads if not using them?) does not invalidate UK insurance, but it would make a UK insurance company scrutinise closely in event of claim. I could live with that. Interestingly - I once broke down in my camper in France when SORN, and the breakdown cover in UK (RAC) refused to attend on the basis that the van wasn't legal. I had to online tax the van from France and then call again, which then worked. I note I'd need to tax a UK registered car in UK for the month that it returned to UK for MOT, again no problem
Insurance
Little more complex - UK issued cover is 3rd party only if driving in EU, default max 90 days. Specialists may be able to provide unlimited EU cover, and make it comprehensive, at some cost - maybe I can sort this? Can anyone recommend a broker or company?
Registration
UK law has always said that if taking a vehicle out of UK for more than 6 months we have to declare export (and then go through the process of import and reregistration in destination country. However, with free movement, this was often ignored by individuals and generally never enforced by authorities, and thus happy advantage was taken by thousands of Brits having UK-registered cars at their 2nd or holiday homes and just leaving then there for years. Vice versa with EU nationals bringing cars to the UK. I knew a Spanish girl who drove around in the UK in her Majorca-registered 206 for 10 years before it went back (too many unpaid parking tickets..). I could also live with that. Bringing cars back to UK once a year for a UK MOT would prove that the stay in France was not unbroken, and I can retain a UK address for the registration and DVSA.
Brexit changes
Because free movement for unrestricted time (with or without your car) is no longer possible, and UK nationals can now only stay in EU 3m at a time, I suspect that there will be fewer Brits bringing their UK cars to their holiday homes and leaving them in EU. This is because it has just become harder for those who do have full time residence rights to get away with leaving their cars UK registered, and not bother with UK tax, MOT etc (many may not be aware that this may well mean big problems if there is ever an accident). Its harder to pretend you are a driving holiday tourist when the stamp in the blue passport makes it clear when you last crossed the border. Even the people who took a UK car to the continent for the summer, bringing it back after the season cant easily do it anymore because they can only stay a max of 90 days out of each 180.
Option 2 - Exporting and Importing
Just a beaurocratic process, no real problem for my other stuff. I do plan to re-register my bikes, camper and Rangie. While drawn out it seem easy enough and costs are fairly low. There's a list of Brit-car friendly CT where stickers on lights are enough - not even any changing headlights.
The summer use-only Astons are the issue. I don't want to register them in France unless I really have to. Too many drawbacks. The one-off import taxes are high, the DB11 alone means an import ecotax of over 10k euro. Then theres losing all the 25 years of UK insurance no claims and starting again with zero NCB on each Aston in France, the damage of export to provenance/saleability and residuals - cant easily sell a RHD Aston in EU or foreign registered car in UK if ever circumstance dictates I have to, and anything that has been out of UK then re-imported will be viewed with suspicion.
My assessment is that the right thing to do, if relocating to another country, is to properly import and re-register any car/s you want to take with you. I will do that with my bikes, my Rangie and my camper.
The alternative, if I want to drive one of my AM (summer only) is to pretend to all (Insurance, Gendarmes) that I'm a perennial tourist and only every arrived in France a max of 90days before the a) random check b) speeding pull c) accident. While this already risky strategy may have been at least possible in the past with free movement, no passport stamps/visas etc, it seems to me to now be much higher risk because everyone will now have a visa stamp when they cross UK-EU mainland border. All anyone (Gendarmes, EU prosecution, UK Insurance, DVSA) has to do is ask to see your passport - or to check the border records.
1st world problem yes I know, and I expect I will be advised to not take any risks and do it properly - its just that its a very high hassle/cost for a car collection that wont get driven much (summer only), would sometimes return to UK anyway, and I'd have to do it all again if I return to UK in a few years. Perhaps a recommendation will be to store them in UK all winter and bring them over for the summer to reduce risks - I looked at this, but I want my cars with me, in my own barn, where I can work on them, do my own servicing etc. Also, like many of you I suspect, half the pleasure of owing AM is just looking at them, wandering to the garage without any real reason. What should it matter if they are safely locked up in my own barn in France or in some barn in the UK...?
Has anyone taken their high performance car with them to EU for the summer? Are you expecting change? Experience/thoughts?
Many many thanks for making it to the end of what I know is a very waffly and purely self-interested post comments, jokes, mickey taking or otherwise is all welcome 
Its rambly - apologies. I've tried to learn as much as possible before asking for real-world advice from those with potential genuine experience.
The wife and I are moving to France this year, though (when it again becomes possible) I will still sometimes be flying back to UK or other northern EU states for work. Though moving to EU has now become trickier, Having a French wife does at least mean that getting residence should be a tad easier for me.
I'd like to take my little collection of AM with me. I've been researching how to do it and what the options are, it seems the challenges associated with exporting and reregistering nice stuff, or just running on UK plates is starting too look more onerous or risky in this post Brexit era. I'm certainly learning about what no longer having freedom of movement means in other ways - we cant even take the wife's garden plants in pots without paying for lab testing of the soil in each etc. The beaurocracy is staggering, but ho hum. Theres no point in any Brit complaining about it - the rules for people coming into the EU were all argued for and agreed by the UK when we were members of the club that we then decided to leave
I didn't vote for Brexit, however, others did, it happened and we now have to live with it. Can anyone help me navigate the difficulties of taking high performance or classic cars to France, and running them there in summer for at least a couple of years post Brexit?
It seems I have two options:
1. leave the car/s UK registered and try to navigate staying within both UK and French law and remaining meaningfully insured
2. export the vehicles, re-register in France, pay all the extortionate import fees and environmental taxes and start again with zero insurance NCB (I've over 30 years NCB across various policies).
It seems that there are key risks with option 1 and severe drawbacks with option 2 - if any of you guys can speak from experience on the genuine risks of option 1 it would be extremely helpful.
Option 1 - Leaving them registered in the UK
License - OK, can still use UK license as will remain valid in EU until expiry. DVSA do not update UK license with foreign address, so perversely (and these are typical confusions) - I comply with both UK and French law while driving in France, however if I return to UK and drive, I will technically be breaking the law for not having a current and valid UK address on the licence
MOT/Control Technique
All vehicles must have a valid MOT if on UK plates to comply with UK law. Without it, UK insurance would take dim view and in event of accident would look very closely at compliance with other requirements of a UK policy (time limited visit etc). Of my three AM, one is a classic and doesn't need UK MOT (ie a return UK visit every year) if left UK registered, also free tax, but would need CT if reregistered. Its possible for me to return to UK every year with the other two cars for an MOT though
Tax/RFL
To be legal, a UK registered car should have UK RFL, however not having it (and indeed why should anyone pay for UK roads if not using them?) does not invalidate UK insurance, but it would make a UK insurance company scrutinise closely in event of claim. I could live with that. Interestingly - I once broke down in my camper in France when SORN, and the breakdown cover in UK (RAC) refused to attend on the basis that the van wasn't legal. I had to online tax the van from France and then call again, which then worked. I note I'd need to tax a UK registered car in UK for the month that it returned to UK for MOT, again no problem
Insurance
Little more complex - UK issued cover is 3rd party only if driving in EU, default max 90 days. Specialists may be able to provide unlimited EU cover, and make it comprehensive, at some cost - maybe I can sort this? Can anyone recommend a broker or company?
Registration
UK law has always said that if taking a vehicle out of UK for more than 6 months we have to declare export (and then go through the process of import and reregistration in destination country. However, with free movement, this was often ignored by individuals and generally never enforced by authorities, and thus happy advantage was taken by thousands of Brits having UK-registered cars at their 2nd or holiday homes and just leaving then there for years. Vice versa with EU nationals bringing cars to the UK. I knew a Spanish girl who drove around in the UK in her Majorca-registered 206 for 10 years before it went back (too many unpaid parking tickets..). I could also live with that. Bringing cars back to UK once a year for a UK MOT would prove that the stay in France was not unbroken, and I can retain a UK address for the registration and DVSA.
Brexit changes
Because free movement for unrestricted time (with or without your car) is no longer possible, and UK nationals can now only stay in EU 3m at a time, I suspect that there will be fewer Brits bringing their UK cars to their holiday homes and leaving them in EU. This is because it has just become harder for those who do have full time residence rights to get away with leaving their cars UK registered, and not bother with UK tax, MOT etc (many may not be aware that this may well mean big problems if there is ever an accident). Its harder to pretend you are a driving holiday tourist when the stamp in the blue passport makes it clear when you last crossed the border. Even the people who took a UK car to the continent for the summer, bringing it back after the season cant easily do it anymore because they can only stay a max of 90 days out of each 180.
Option 2 - Exporting and Importing
Just a beaurocratic process, no real problem for my other stuff. I do plan to re-register my bikes, camper and Rangie. While drawn out it seem easy enough and costs are fairly low. There's a list of Brit-car friendly CT where stickers on lights are enough - not even any changing headlights.
The summer use-only Astons are the issue. I don't want to register them in France unless I really have to. Too many drawbacks. The one-off import taxes are high, the DB11 alone means an import ecotax of over 10k euro. Then theres losing all the 25 years of UK insurance no claims and starting again with zero NCB on each Aston in France, the damage of export to provenance/saleability and residuals - cant easily sell a RHD Aston in EU or foreign registered car in UK if ever circumstance dictates I have to, and anything that has been out of UK then re-imported will be viewed with suspicion.
My assessment is that the right thing to do, if relocating to another country, is to properly import and re-register any car/s you want to take with you. I will do that with my bikes, my Rangie and my camper.
The alternative, if I want to drive one of my AM (summer only) is to pretend to all (Insurance, Gendarmes) that I'm a perennial tourist and only every arrived in France a max of 90days before the a) random check b) speeding pull c) accident. While this already risky strategy may have been at least possible in the past with free movement, no passport stamps/visas etc, it seems to me to now be much higher risk because everyone will now have a visa stamp when they cross UK-EU mainland border. All anyone (Gendarmes, EU prosecution, UK Insurance, DVSA) has to do is ask to see your passport - or to check the border records.
1st world problem yes I know, and I expect I will be advised to not take any risks and do it properly - its just that its a very high hassle/cost for a car collection that wont get driven much (summer only), would sometimes return to UK anyway, and I'd have to do it all again if I return to UK in a few years. Perhaps a recommendation will be to store them in UK all winter and bring them over for the summer to reduce risks - I looked at this, but I want my cars with me, in my own barn, where I can work on them, do my own servicing etc. Also, like many of you I suspect, half the pleasure of owing AM is just looking at them, wandering to the garage without any real reason. What should it matter if they are safely locked up in my own barn in France or in some barn in the UK...?
Has anyone taken their high performance car with them to EU for the summer? Are you expecting change? Experience/thoughts?
Many many thanks for making it to the end of what I know is a very waffly and purely self-interested post
comments, jokes, mickey taking or otherwise is all welcome A friend was also very concerned about the UK leaving the
After eventually managing to negotiate intense EU bureaucracy, including an awkward EU official cheekily telling him the gentleman was not born in Ireland, but Northern Ireland (there was not a Northern Ireland at the time of the birth), a European Passport was issued to my friend. He is now both an EU state citizen and also a UK citizen.
Would that now make it easier for him to take an Aston Martin to live in France ?
As your wife is already an EU state citizen, would it make your plan any simpler, if you transferred ownership of all your Aston Martins to her ?
If all else fails, I have a long running and very good record of maintaining a lightly used Aston Martin in perfect condition, so you could always leave one or two in my care while you are away. Only expenses, no storage fees. -
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 25th March 14:33
I came across this the other day when pondering a similar future move to France. You probably already know the procedures but they may be some useful nuggets on here:
https://www.eurococ.eu/en/blog/importing-a-vehicle...
https://www.eurococ.eu/en/blog/importing-a-vehicle...
I brought my Vanquish in Switzerland and paid the taxes (ouch) and she now is resplendent with a french number plate (06 region).
I also did the same about 6 years ago with a BMW from Germany.
We are hoping to join them semi permanently in a year or two once I kick this work habit.
I also have a UK registered motorbike which returns annually for it's MOT to keep it legal - I tried to import it - but that's another story...
On the subject of insurance - i managed to transfer my NCB from HK without too much hassle - i suspect this will also apply to the UK and I have also reduced my rates by having a policy with limited mileage (8k klms per annum) which also helps..
I'm very interested in the input/advice on this subject as I will be following your shirt tails...
I also did the same about 6 years ago with a BMW from Germany.
We are hoping to join them semi permanently in a year or two once I kick this work habit.
I also have a UK registered motorbike which returns annually for it's MOT to keep it legal - I tried to import it - but that's another story...
On the subject of insurance - i managed to transfer my NCB from HK without too much hassle - i suspect this will also apply to the UK and I have also reduced my rates by having a policy with limited mileage (8k klms per annum) which also helps..
I'm very interested in the input/advice on this subject as I will be following your shirt tails...
So, let's see if I can help.
That Italian-registered Range Rover I sold in France has been pretty much a breeze and not very costly to be registered in France for the buyers. Just a Certificat de Conformité (COC) from Jaguar/Land Rover (around 80€) that could be obtainable online or at any dealer, a fresh French Contrôle Technique (the MOT) done anywhere in France, all the original car papers, a couple of French forms you can get online and... that's it. You then pay all the normal plates and registration fees, bonus/malus based on CO2 etc.
Before buying my Aston in Normandy, I also went down the route of buying in Germany or Netherlands; a good friend of mine works at Mercedes in Stuttgart and went to see a car for me. He then took note of all what was needed to register it in France and it was pretty easy and not costly. But then I found the car I was looking for already in France (had to be an N420).
When I moved from Switzerland to Paris and I bought a Maserati there (French plate), I had to change my Italian license to a French one, the insurer asked me to. Also, I kept the same company (Generali) so I kept all my history/bonuses; try to see if your current insurer has a partner in France.
That Italian-registered Range Rover I sold in France has been pretty much a breeze and not very costly to be registered in France for the buyers. Just a Certificat de Conformité (COC) from Jaguar/Land Rover (around 80€) that could be obtainable online or at any dealer, a fresh French Contrôle Technique (the MOT) done anywhere in France, all the original car papers, a couple of French forms you can get online and... that's it. You then pay all the normal plates and registration fees, bonus/malus based on CO2 etc.
Before buying my Aston in Normandy, I also went down the route of buying in Germany or Netherlands; a good friend of mine works at Mercedes in Stuttgart and went to see a car for me. He then took note of all what was needed to register it in France and it was pretty easy and not costly. But then I found the car I was looking for already in France (had to be an N420).
When I moved from Switzerland to Paris and I bought a Maserati there (French plate), I had to change my Italian license to a French one, the insurer asked me to. Also, I kept the same company (Generali) so I kept all my history/bonuses; try to see if your current insurer has a partner in France.
andyduncan said:
...and she now is resplendent with a french number plate (06 region).
Best plate if you ask me! Edited by EVR on Friday 26th March 11:41
Thanks for the replies guys - for those who have mentioned about reregistering, I know it can be done, its just that I'd rather not. French insurance seems to to be very expensive on high performance cars due to inflexible French laws creating an inflexible French car insurance market. In France the car is insured not the driver, the car must be 100% insured even if never driven, anyone can drive the car therefore insurers must price the risk of an 18yo driving it etc etc, cant restrict drivers, limit miles etc. No surprise theres nowhere near as many high performance cars on the road in France as say Germany or UK. Also, import and eco taxes are relatively high for high power cars. Practically - the only place a RHD car belongs/should be registered/insured is the UK/Ireland, cant easily sell RHD on in mainland EU, cant easily sell foreign plated RHD car in UK (why would someone buy unless way under market value?).
Assuming I'd ideally prefer to keep all my cars and not just flog them and buy others, importing and reregistering, while the 'right' thing to do seems incredibly bothersome and expensive - so what I really want to know is whether its feasible to live in France and drive around permanently in my UK registered cars, and remain, sort of, legal. I know that pre-brexit others have done this for years, I'd just like to understand the risks as much as possible so I can minimise them.
My AM would only see daylight in the summer, and we'd have french registered euroboxes for dailies. I dont mind an annual trip back to blighty for MOT for the 2 AM that would need it, and I've found a UK insurer who will cover UK registered cars that live permanently in EU - its roughly twice the price of my UK insurance, but less than half the cost of French insurance.
All in all - leaving UK registered at a UK address (mates or family) but properly (full disclosure) insuring, annual trip for MOT but otherwise leaving SORN would be the most flexible solution for me. If something went horribly wrong and I needed cash it would be straightforward to return to UK and sell. I have to travel back to UK a dozen times a year anyway, so taking an Aston once or twice would hardly be a chore.. I could also get them serviced/stamped in UK at the same time. Looking at the latest on gov.UK - despite Brexit, if the car is outside UK for less than 12m it seems we are not required to export - so that seems clear enough,
The only problems I have found with keeping the cars on UK plates:
1. French law appears to state that a foreign registered vehicle can only be 'temporarily imported' for up to 6 months in any 12 months period - it seems there's no way around this one - but, if the cars are only being 'driven' for 6 months, and spend rest of time hidden in a barn, possibly the only time they could be detected as becoming 'illegal overstayers' is when they are heading back to UK for the MOT.. but then the 6 in 12 thing means they would technically be illegal as soon as they cross back to France after a few days. But will the UK and French ports record car registrations? It is after all I who will have the stamp, not the car, ne c'est pas ?
On balance - if, whatever the penalties are, are not extreme, this looks low risk. As long as one is 100% honest with the insurer - and some of the brokers seem very understanding, and the proper premium is paid and the car is insured, all else seems low risk?
2. It seems I must remain a 'UK resident' to drive and be insured on a UK registered car in France (French law requirement) - this is also where the UK insurers seem to draw the line. I'm not sure how to get around this - it would be OK for 1st year while I was making application for residency, but once granted things would get more complex - however, if I find a willing UK insurer, again all else looks low risk?
Anyone else done this? Other than Brexit making it easier to get 'caught' or fall foul of these arcane vehicular import/export regs that were ignored by everyone including the authorities for many years, and were after all designed to prevent smuggling, most of the rules on import export and driving foreign registered cars in EU/UK don't seem to have changed?
Cheers
Calinours
Assuming I'd ideally prefer to keep all my cars and not just flog them and buy others, importing and reregistering, while the 'right' thing to do seems incredibly bothersome and expensive - so what I really want to know is whether its feasible to live in France and drive around permanently in my UK registered cars, and remain, sort of, legal. I know that pre-brexit others have done this for years, I'd just like to understand the risks as much as possible so I can minimise them.
My AM would only see daylight in the summer, and we'd have french registered euroboxes for dailies. I dont mind an annual trip back to blighty for MOT for the 2 AM that would need it, and I've found a UK insurer who will cover UK registered cars that live permanently in EU - its roughly twice the price of my UK insurance, but less than half the cost of French insurance.
All in all - leaving UK registered at a UK address (mates or family) but properly (full disclosure) insuring, annual trip for MOT but otherwise leaving SORN would be the most flexible solution for me. If something went horribly wrong and I needed cash it would be straightforward to return to UK and sell. I have to travel back to UK a dozen times a year anyway, so taking an Aston once or twice would hardly be a chore..
I could also get them serviced/stamped in UK at the same time. Looking at the latest on gov.UK - despite Brexit, if the car is outside UK for less than 12m it seems we are not required to export - so that seems clear enough, The only problems I have found with keeping the cars on UK plates:
1. French law appears to state that a foreign registered vehicle can only be 'temporarily imported' for up to 6 months in any 12 months period - it seems there's no way around this one - but, if the cars are only being 'driven' for 6 months, and spend rest of time hidden in a barn, possibly the only time they could be detected as becoming 'illegal overstayers' is when they are heading back to UK for the MOT.. but then the 6 in 12 thing means they would technically be illegal as soon as they cross back to France after a few days. But will the UK and French ports record car registrations? It is after all I who will have the stamp, not the car, ne c'est pas ?
On balance - if, whatever the penalties are, are not extreme, this looks low risk. As long as one is 100% honest with the insurer - and some of the brokers seem very understanding, and the proper premium is paid and the car is insured, all else seems low risk?
2. It seems I must remain a 'UK resident' to drive and be insured on a UK registered car in France (French law requirement) - this is also where the UK insurers seem to draw the line. I'm not sure how to get around this - it would be OK for 1st year while I was making application for residency, but once granted things would get more complex - however, if I find a willing UK insurer, again all else looks low risk?
Anyone else done this? Other than Brexit making it easier to get 'caught' or fall foul of these arcane vehicular import/export regs that were ignored by everyone including the authorities for many years, and were after all designed to prevent smuggling, most of the rules on import export and driving foreign registered cars in EU/UK don't seem to have changed?
Cheers
Calinours
I moved from the UK to Italy couple of years ago. I still have 3 UK registered cars on the Continent. They are all oldtimers so are used very sparingly and more importantly do not need MOT (so you don’t need to take them back to the UK for that). Insurance is in the UK and that is all agreed.
I would sell the UK registered cars. There are two major issues. RHD and the fact that as a French resident (applies to other EU countries as well) you need to register your car locally after 6 months. Otherwise you risk it being confiscated (Have never heard this happening but you never know). Your UK insurance will always be an issue as will the MOT. Also driving a RHD car in Europe is cumbersome with payage etc (you can get an electronic tag) but in italy for instance this is ok for the Telepass but with a foreign number it wont work with other automated payment services as you cannot attach a foreign numberplate to Telepass. Also, because Britain is an island and is now outside the EU you can’t just crisscross the borders without anyone registering. So the 90 day rule will probably be quite easy to enforce.
Transferring cars across borders has always be quite cumbersome with Brexit it has just gotten worse. Remember that this is not EU bashing. The rules for the EU have not changed, it is Britain that opted out.
I would sell the UK registered cars. There are two major issues. RHD and the fact that as a French resident (applies to other EU countries as well) you need to register your car locally after 6 months. Otherwise you risk it being confiscated (Have never heard this happening but you never know). Your UK insurance will always be an issue as will the MOT. Also driving a RHD car in Europe is cumbersome with payage etc (you can get an electronic tag) but in italy for instance this is ok for the Telepass but with a foreign number it wont work with other automated payment services as you cannot attach a foreign numberplate to Telepass. Also, because Britain is an island and is now outside the EU you can’t just crisscross the borders without anyone registering. So the 90 day rule will probably be quite easy to enforce.
Transferring cars across borders has always be quite cumbersome with Brexit it has just gotten worse. Remember that this is not EU bashing. The rules for the EU have not changed, it is Britain that opted out.
Thanks Hornbaek - this is exactly the kind of experience/advice I'm after. I know the advice is to sell to avoid hassle, but I really, really don't want to be forced to sell my Astons. I would hope I can make it work (as you have) with my classic (no MOT required), and I'm happy to French register my other stuff - so the challenge is really the two more modern AM. To give an indication why I wont sell.... I have continuously upgraded my V8VS into something quite special over 5 long years, its not easily replaceable and in any case wouldn't sell for much (Cat D early in its life, some here may remember the story of 'Purdey' - well, my V8VS is Purdey, all now properly repaired and restored, then returned to that original EVO featured spec. The best part of 90k was sunk into in that car... 
Driving back and forward one a year for the MOT doesn't bother me, and as you say, insurance can be found - but, once I become resident in approx 1 year, what you say about mandated local registration and possible confiscation is very troubling. I presume there has to be some sort of law permitting this? Is anyone aware of it happening (save for where someone is cause at 200+kph enroute to or from LeMans). Also, I think you are very correct about Brexit and easier enforcement of the import/export and registration rules thing. I suppose there will also be more of a desire to enforce on the part of the French authorities from national gov level down through the prefectures and the Gendermes.
I'm not Brexiteer bashing or remoaning (have passed that stage), but these extra challenges and no doubt costs presented by Brexit (to me and anyone wanting to do anything similar) are going to be the tiny tip of the iceberg when it comes to any future dealings with our closest neighbours
Please keep your experiences coming - all of this is really good info and helping me decide on whatever it is that I end up trying to do..
Driving back and forward one a year for the MOT doesn't bother me, and as you say, insurance can be found - but, once I become resident in approx 1 year, what you say about mandated local registration and possible confiscation is very troubling. I presume there has to be some sort of law permitting this? Is anyone aware of it happening (save for where someone is cause at 200+kph enroute to or from LeMans). Also, I think you are very correct about Brexit and easier enforcement of the import/export and registration rules thing. I suppose there will also be more of a desire to enforce on the part of the French authorities from national gov level down through the prefectures and the Gendermes.
I'm not Brexiteer bashing or remoaning (have passed that stage), but these extra challenges and no doubt costs presented by Brexit (to me and anyone wanting to do anything similar) are going to be the tiny tip of the iceberg when it comes to any future dealings with our closest neighbours
Please keep your experiences coming - all of this is really good info and helping me decide on whatever it is that I end up trying to do..
EVR said:
Is French insurance THAT bad? I pay 80€/month with 8000 km/year with said Generali.
I don't know for sure, but when researching the stuff about the car being insured in France (for anyone, as opposed to a defined driver in UK) and the potential to not acknowledge UK NCB, and the perceived combined risks of RHD high performance cars, I came back with some pretty eye watering potential numbers.EUR 960 a year? If you don't mind the question EVR, which car is that, Is it imported from UK and RHD? Any NCB?
Calinours said:
...... I have continuously upgraded my V8VS into something quite special over 5 long years, its not easily replaceable and in any case wouldn't sell for much (Cat D early in its life, some here may remember the story of 'Purdey' - well, my V8VS is Purdey, all now properly repaired and restored, then returned to that original EVO featured spec. The best part of 90k was sunk into in that car...
Yes, I can remember. Son-in laws, Aston Martins and weddings. Never let them mix.
Until today, I think the last we heard anything, were photos of front damage and questions (not answered) about repairing.
The father of the bride was very keen for Aston Martin to produce a road version of the racing Vantage. He had left for Porsche though, before the GT12 model was announced.
Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 27th March 08:58
I'd be sceptical of leaving myself open to that one about possible confiscation. Even if its rare in the past, so was raiding vaccine plants. As the EU economy tanks over the next few years there will be plenty of excuses for the French to make it difficult for you, if the cars are obviously UK owned. Just ask the shellfish exporters how buearocratic (?) they can be when they want to ....
As you've already sunk loads of money in, have you considered even more E. G. LHD conversions?
As you've already sunk loads of money in, have you considered even more E. G. LHD conversions?
Calinours said:
...... I have continuously upgraded my V8VS into something quite special over 5 long years, its not easily replaceable and in any case wouldn't sell for much (Cat D early in its life, some here may remember the story of 'Purdey' - well, my V8VS is Purdey, all now properly repaired and restored, then returned to that original EVO featured spec. The best part of 90k was sunk into in that car...
It’s good to hear that Purdey is back on the road after all the work Rob and Molly had done to it. I don’t know if they had another Aston after the accident.
Yep - that one sure has a mixed history, from new it was significantly uprated by a keen owner as you say, then crashed, goodies removed, written off and later returned to road with some 'questionable' repairs including stilt-like DB9 suspension, broken light clusters glued together, missing bits, poor composite repairs and not really good enough paint. It spent time at one of the 'Aston for hire' places before finding its way into my hands in neglected state in 2016. Bad decision at the time - going for a cheap but dodgy 'S' over a really good 4.3 or a straight 4.7. It took four years, loads of wasted money and head scratching, entirely new front panels inc bonnet, both wings and bumper, total respray, all new light clusters, then all the same BR switchable Bilstein/twin plate clutch, exhaust manifold and cat upgrades that were previously done to get it back to the spec as featured in Evo and Vantage magazines. I didn't stop there, it sits on Michelin PS4, has all glass switches & a fully bypass-able V12 AMR back box, with the valves open it is absolutely epic. It is genuinely quick, the balance and steering was always excellent on V8 Vantage, but with the super rapid shifts, rev hungry reduced inertia tuned motor and Bilsteins in hard mode, the Michelins permit extreme and very flat cornering speed with sublime feedback. It's so much more fun than my DB11 when hustling through twisties, at least on par with the 911 sweet spot 997.2 (I owned one or two 911 enroute to contracting Aston-itus)
It took years, and much more money that I'd care to admit to (especially to the wife), but this particular car, despite being on VCAR as a Cat D is now perfect, not a mark on her, drives sublimely, not a hint of looseness, rattle or noise from anywhere. The oil comes out every year pretty much the same colour it went in. Purdey is a survivor all right, and, touch wood, wont ever be sold, this special little resurrected Aston is a keeper. This is why I'd like to genuinely understand if, running her out only in summer, where she wont stand out too much among the throngs of other UK tourists in nice motors, keeping her locked away for 6 months through winter, making sure she was properly insured, and nipping back to UK once a year for service, MOT and length of stay 'reset' - that I could get away, at least for a couple of years with not re-registering her. I'm not bothered about toll booths - I wouldn't be driving her on the Autoroutes.
Equally if I am advised/informed by the huge knowledge in the PH community not to worry about French bureaucracy (i.e what french insurers make of RHD modified sports and high performance cars, what their inspectors make of obviously non standard exhausts and motorsport catalysts..), and that it will be easy to re register and insure, then I might just import and re register as I intend to keep her. The DB11 I'd like to retain the option to sell in the UK if I need to (really want to keep that one UK registered) - same with the classic, don't want to export that one to avoid damaging a solid 40yrs of UK history/provenance.
Converting to LHD - hadn't thought of that. Its an even more permanent change than just re-registering, will probably cost an enormous amount to convert 2 modern AM? (though I'd not convert the classic). Values are higher for modern used AM in EU, huge market too. I guess only worth it to a) make a car easier/cheaper to insure, and b) easier to sell in EU if needs arise. The other reason is to make the vehicle easier to drive - but driving RHD on right or LHD on left has never bothered me much - and I think the toughest country to do that in is probably the UK with all the narrow hedge lined country roads.
Interesting comments about fish (I feel a Monty Python moment coming on... As a member, the UK was central to the definition of every trade rule applied to dealings with non-member states. As others have said, the EU hasn't changed any of those rules that the UK as a member helped draft in its own self interest. It is the UK that decided to leave the club, therefore no-one in UK can complain that those same rules are now applied to us.
I'm not complaining - I just want to see how bendy those rules might be - but don't want to be the 1st one learning the hard way
It took years, and much more money that I'd care to admit to (especially to the wife), but this particular car, despite being on VCAR as a Cat D is now perfect, not a mark on her, drives sublimely, not a hint of looseness, rattle or noise from anywhere. The oil comes out every year pretty much the same colour it went in. Purdey is a survivor all right, and, touch wood, wont ever be sold, this special little resurrected Aston is a keeper. This is why I'd like to genuinely understand if, running her out only in summer, where she wont stand out too much among the throngs of other UK tourists in nice motors, keeping her locked away for 6 months through winter, making sure she was properly insured, and nipping back to UK once a year for service, MOT and length of stay 'reset' - that I could get away, at least for a couple of years with not re-registering her. I'm not bothered about toll booths - I wouldn't be driving her on the Autoroutes.
Equally if I am advised/informed by the huge knowledge in the PH community not to worry about French bureaucracy (i.e what french insurers make of RHD modified sports and high performance cars, what their inspectors make of obviously non standard exhausts and motorsport catalysts..), and that it will be easy to re register and insure, then I might just import and re register as I intend to keep her. The DB11 I'd like to retain the option to sell in the UK if I need to (really want to keep that one UK registered) - same with the classic, don't want to export that one to avoid damaging a solid 40yrs of UK history/provenance.
Converting to LHD - hadn't thought of that. Its an even more permanent change than just re-registering, will probably cost an enormous amount to convert 2 modern AM? (though I'd not convert the classic). Values are higher for modern used AM in EU, huge market too. I guess only worth it to a) make a car easier/cheaper to insure, and b) easier to sell in EU if needs arise. The other reason is to make the vehicle easier to drive - but driving RHD on right or LHD on left has never bothered me much - and I think the toughest country to do that in is probably the UK with all the narrow hedge lined country roads.
Interesting comments about fish (I feel a Monty Python moment coming on...
As a member, the UK was central to the definition of every trade rule applied to dealings with non-member states. As others have said, the EU hasn't changed any of those rules that the UK as a member helped draft in its own self interest. It is the UK that decided to leave the club, therefore no-one in UK can complain that those same rules are now applied to us. I'm not complaining - I just want to see how bendy those rules might be
- but don't want to be the 1st one learning the hard way Hi gentlmen, a bit out of topic but we have a great AM club in France organising a lot of events , http://astonpassion.com/
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