I'm sorry. Please explain home charging costs again!
Discussion
One of my taxis got written off and I'm seriously considering an EV to replace it.
Yesterday was a typical day for me and I did 250 miles. I did about 100 miles and was then stopped at home for about an hour and a half. Then I drove 150 miles and finished up at my office.
I'd need a charge point at home and at the office and am wondering how much they cost to install and confirmation they charge more quickly than a three pin plug on an extension lead
I also assume that 100 miles would use quite a bit of charge, how much could I expect to regain over 90 minutes home charging?
All depends on the vehicle, but let's go with a Hyundai Ioniq (current model, circa 180 range?) Or a Nissan Leaf (of similar range). Unless some of you knowledgeable chaps know of a similarly priced car with a longer range?
Yesterday was a typical day for me and I did 250 miles. I did about 100 miles and was then stopped at home for about an hour and a half. Then I drove 150 miles and finished up at my office.
I'd need a charge point at home and at the office and am wondering how much they cost to install and confirmation they charge more quickly than a three pin plug on an extension lead
I also assume that 100 miles would use quite a bit of charge, how much could I expect to regain over 90 minutes home charging?
All depends on the vehicle, but let's go with a Hyundai Ioniq (current model, circa 180 range?) Or a Nissan Leaf (of similar range). Unless some of you knowledgeable chaps know of a similarly priced car with a longer range?
This is going to sound hopelessly vague and woolly, but it depends...
Charge point, somewhere between £400 and £1000 depending on model, complexity of install etc (there’s a chap on here somewhere who does installs so he’ll give a much better estimate, I’m sure).
Charging, in 90 minutes you’ll probably put around 10kWh back into the battery, assuming the car has the right charger in it (my Leaf only does 3.6kW, not 6.6kW). Faster than a 3 pin plug either way.
In terms of how many miles that is, it depends on how fast you’re driving and the outside temperate, wind etc. I get anything between 2.5 miles per kWh and 5 miles per kWh, so the variation can be quite large - in your example anything between 25 and 50 miles of range added in the 90 minutes.
Probably not enough either way for the mileage you mentioned - is there a rapid charger near where you live which you can use?
Charge point, somewhere between £400 and £1000 depending on model, complexity of install etc (there’s a chap on here somewhere who does installs so he’ll give a much better estimate, I’m sure).
Charging, in 90 minutes you’ll probably put around 10kWh back into the battery, assuming the car has the right charger in it (my Leaf only does 3.6kW, not 6.6kW). Faster than a 3 pin plug either way.
In terms of how many miles that is, it depends on how fast you’re driving and the outside temperate, wind etc. I get anything between 2.5 miles per kWh and 5 miles per kWh, so the variation can be quite large - in your example anything between 25 and 50 miles of range added in the 90 minutes.
Probably not enough either way for the mileage you mentioned - is there a rapid charger near where you live which you can use?
Say 18p per KwH of electricity. Times that by battery capacity.
Hyundai is 38 KwH so approx £7 quid to charge.
Depends on electricity cost obvs, and then size of battery.
Home charger, as above is between 500 and 800, there is a grant available. This will charge at 7kw on normal wiring.
Divide battery capacity (38kwh) by charge rate (7kw). Add a bit of time for rate drop off so 6ish hours to full charge.
Hyundai is 38 KwH so approx £7 quid to charge.
Depends on electricity cost obvs, and then size of battery.
Home charger, as above is between 500 and 800, there is a grant available. This will charge at 7kw on normal wiring.
Divide battery capacity (38kwh) by charge rate (7kw). Add a bit of time for rate drop off so 6ish hours to full charge.
Tyre Smoke said:
Yes, but it wouldn't be convenient or cost effective. So home charging is not much better than a three pin plug?
3 pin plug charges around 2.3kw per hour. Home chargers typically charge at 7 kw per hour, so about 3 times faster, but only if the car can take it. There are faster options but they aren’t always available for lots of reasons If you wanted to faster home charging, there are a few cars that can utilise 3-phase charging upto 11kW. But that would be dependent on having a 3 phase supply readily available and the additional cost of the charger.
Your daily mileage is quite high, even in taxi terms. I would expect you're better off with a car that would be full after an overnight charge (10 hours at 7kw) plus a rapid charge at lunch for 20 minutes when the highest charge rates are usually achievable (low state of charge).
Your daily mileage is quite high, even in taxi terms. I would expect you're better off with a car that would be full after an overnight charge (10 hours at 7kw) plus a rapid charge at lunch for 20 minutes when the highest charge rates are usually achievable (low state of charge).
ExcitableBoy said:
I think pure EVs are still for people who want to either stop pollution at point of use, or want to benefit from BIK.
The answer for a taxi, espescially with your mileage, is probably still a diesel - as its running all day and efficient. Or a bloody Prius
Local Taxi firms have largely moved from Auris hybrids to Ioniq hybrids, but it's a small town with lots of rural work.The answer for a taxi, espescially with your mileage, is probably still a diesel - as its running all day and efficient. Or a bloody Prius
Several companies, including in Cornwall and Aberdeen, have made Leaf30 work for them, but there's certainly a some compromise with that range.
OP, you might want to look at an EV with a better range than the 2 examples you've mentioned....the KIA E-Niro as an example has a reputed range of 282 miles though in winter you can knock about 20-25% off dependent on ambient temperature etc. & it's the winter where the range can be a real issue.
There are more public rapid chargers appearing all over the place although they're normally more expensive than charging at your home/work - the likes of KFC, McDonalds, Tescos & Lidl are all getting in on installing charging points....I used an Instavolt at a KFC whilst out & about & the maximum charge was 50kW/35p per kWH although it depends what the charging capability is of your car as well?! Your car will also "learn"/adapt the range to driving conditions/style - my I3S is doing about 4 miles/kWH although I saw a post of one driver getting over 5 miles/kWH solely in the urban area & it depends also on how much regenerative braking the car does & how well you can predict the road conditions to harvest extra power through the regen cycle.
There's a good EV community on Facebook including model specific ones to have a look at if you need more research.
There are more public rapid chargers appearing all over the place although they're normally more expensive than charging at your home/work - the likes of KFC, McDonalds, Tescos & Lidl are all getting in on installing charging points....I used an Instavolt at a KFC whilst out & about & the maximum charge was 50kW/35p per kWH although it depends what the charging capability is of your car as well?! Your car will also "learn"/adapt the range to driving conditions/style - my I3S is doing about 4 miles/kWH although I saw a post of one driver getting over 5 miles/kWH solely in the urban area & it depends also on how much regenerative braking the car does & how well you can predict the road conditions to harvest extra power through the regen cycle.
There's a good EV community on Facebook including model specific ones to have a look at if you need more research.
ExcitableBoy said:
Ioniq is basically a modern, phev, prius isn't it? Looks decent.
Probably this generation of cars is always going to mean a bit more cabbie downtime compared to a splash and dash.
Ioniq is very much in the stamp of the Prius with a shared hybrid, phev and BEV platform. It's very energy efficient in all forms.Probably this generation of cars is always going to mean a bit more cabbie downtime compared to a splash and dash.
This was back in 2014, so much smaller battery.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/5/8/nissan-l...
Checkout cabbie007 on youtube, he's been documenting his EV taxi journey.
He does about 250miles a day on one charge.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CabbieOO7/videos
He does about 250miles a day on one charge.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CabbieOO7/videos
A number of interesting points there. We already have Prius and Auris hybrids. But because we are doing long journeys (typically 20-30.miles) up and down the North Devon link road or the M5, they are effectively petrol cars. Both average about 45mpg. We don't do enough city driving to really get the benefit of the hybrid system.
It feels like the range vs cost to buy are not quite there yet. The first EV we get would be 'my' car so it would be me doing the charging at every opportunity thing. I need to look into this a bit more. There's a new Ioniq coming out with a claimed range of 292 miles, but a) it's going to start at 45k and b) that's not really the range as you've already explained - air temp, aircon, lights, wipers, driving style, etc.
I know it sounds picky, but I want the car to look like a car. I refused to have any Berlingo things because they look awful, the Niro looks like some sort of 'soft roader' for the yummy mummy on the green school run. The model S Tesla looks the part, but the price is just too high for a new one, and second hand would be very brave at these daily mileages. Compare all the above against my i40 estate that is returning 44mpg and is on 176,000 miles and it's difficult at the moment to argue against another diesel.
It feels like the range vs cost to buy are not quite there yet. The first EV we get would be 'my' car so it would be me doing the charging at every opportunity thing. I need to look into this a bit more. There's a new Ioniq coming out with a claimed range of 292 miles, but a) it's going to start at 45k and b) that's not really the range as you've already explained - air temp, aircon, lights, wipers, driving style, etc.
I know it sounds picky, but I want the car to look like a car. I refused to have any Berlingo things because they look awful, the Niro looks like some sort of 'soft roader' for the yummy mummy on the green school run. The model S Tesla looks the part, but the price is just too high for a new one, and second hand would be very brave at these daily mileages. Compare all the above against my i40 estate that is returning 44mpg and is on 176,000 miles and it's difficult at the moment to argue against another diesel.
ExcitableBoy said:
I think pure EVs are still for people who want to either stop pollution at point of use, or want to benefit from BIK.
nope. Just leased one as personal with same power output (200bhp), mainly local journeys and it will save me about £80 a month in fuel (two full refuels cost me about £115). I still want the power but prefer to save £1k a year (£500 for the 1st after wall charger) and have a new car.
OP - just getting my wall charger installed and still locked in to my current provider charging 14pkwh. I expect to charge it once a week for normal stuff (230 miles ish) at a cost of a full charge £8.50.
When i get my smart meter installed i will move to a provider with cheap night time fees and expect that cost to half (if not more).
Edited by TheDrownedApe on Friday 26th March 07:50
Tyre Smoke said:
A number of interesting points there. We already have Prius and Auris hybrids. But because we are doing long journeys (typically 20-30.miles) up and down the North Devon link road or the M5, they are effectively petrol cars. Both average about 45mpg. We don't do enough city driving to really get the benefit of the hybrid system.
It feels like the range vs cost to buy are not quite there yet. The first EV we get would be 'my' car so it would be me doing the charging at every opportunity thing. I need to look into this a bit more. There's a new Ioniq coming out with a claimed range of 292 miles, but a) it's going to start at 45k and b) that's not really the range as you've already explained - air temp, aircon, lights, wipers, driving style, etc.
I know it sounds picky, but I want the car to look like a car. I refused to have any Berlingo things because they look awful, the Niro looks like some sort of 'soft roader' for the yummy mummy on the green school run. The model S Tesla looks the part, but the price is just too high for a new one, and second hand would be very brave at these daily mileages. Compare all the above against my i40 estate that is returning 44mpg and is on 176,000 miles and it's difficult at the moment to argue against another diesel.
It's a shame both the Leaf40 and Ioniq 38 are disadvantaged by poor rapid charge rates. It feels like the range vs cost to buy are not quite there yet. The first EV we get would be 'my' car so it would be me doing the charging at every opportunity thing. I need to look into this a bit more. There's a new Ioniq coming out with a claimed range of 292 miles, but a) it's going to start at 45k and b) that's not really the range as you've already explained - air temp, aircon, lights, wipers, driving style, etc.
I know it sounds picky, but I want the car to look like a car. I refused to have any Berlingo things because they look awful, the Niro looks like some sort of 'soft roader' for the yummy mummy on the green school run. The model S Tesla looks the part, but the price is just too high for a new one, and second hand would be very brave at these daily mileages. Compare all the above against my i40 estate that is returning 44mpg and is on 176,000 miles and it's difficult at the moment to argue against another diesel.
That said, lease deals on Leaf60 are pretty good and get you a decent rate of charge on Chademo.
SimpleSimonSays said:
(there’s a chap on here somewhere who does installs so he’ll give a much better estimate, I’m sure).
From a charging viewpoint 7kW typically adds 20-25 miles of range but as said there are variables including outside temperature, the level of charge in the battery (battery charging slows down after 80& to protect the battery from being over charged), etc.22kW needs 3 phase power and usually only commercial premises have this. It's a lot of power and you would need to make sure the car can take that level of charging, many cannot. They are also more expensive, predictably.
Older style chargers are realistically from around £500 upwards. Beware the low install prices quoted online as they are mostly 'from' prices. I'd say £800 is the upper end with the only 7kW chargers above that being premium looking ones. The only reason prices go above this is if you have a long cabling run, typically over 10m, or need a secondary 'fuse box'.
The OZEV grant gives you £350 towards the cost of the installation (all taken into account with the prices above) and this closes at the end of March 2022. No rush but worth flagging up.
Hope that helps...
a used model S wouldn't be very risky, they are extremely reliable and have starship mileages in the US.
250 miles@ 44mpg = C.£33/day in fuel
recharging a 75kw EV is around £11 (not taking into account night time rates, so likely cheaper...) so £22/day cheaper just in fuel
that's over £600/month, so easily covering the lease on something like a brand new model 3 long range, if you so wished.
for your use case, an EV makes a lot of sense, just don't be small minded on the purchase price. the tax, servicing and repair costs will certainly be smaller than an ICE car as well.
250 miles@ 44mpg = C.£33/day in fuel
recharging a 75kw EV is around £11 (not taking into account night time rates, so likely cheaper...) so £22/day cheaper just in fuel
that's over £600/month, so easily covering the lease on something like a brand new model 3 long range, if you so wished.
for your use case, an EV makes a lot of sense, just don't be small minded on the purchase price. the tax, servicing and repair costs will certainly be smaller than an ICE car as well.
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