What is a ‘Modification’?
Discussion
Evening all,
I’m just about to get my car back from BR after upgrades but are these modifications for insurance purposes?
Swapping standard dampers for Bilsteins is just a change of shock absorber not a modification. Same for thicker under plates. I guess you could argue the addition of a rear anti roll bar is a modification.
Removing primary cars is an engine protection measure. Fast flow secondaries is, IMO, on the line.
I guess I’ll notify the insurance company of all the changes anyway but I wondered what your opinions are?
J
I’m just about to get my car back from BR after upgrades but are these modifications for insurance purposes?
Swapping standard dampers for Bilsteins is just a change of shock absorber not a modification. Same for thicker under plates. I guess you could argue the addition of a rear anti roll bar is a modification.
Removing primary cars is an engine protection measure. Fast flow secondaries is, IMO, on the line.
I guess I’ll notify the insurance company of all the changes anyway but I wondered what your opinions are?
J
I think that anything that wasn't available from the manufacturer for a car of your model year counts as a modification. So the change in dampers to Bilsteins is a modification whereas the clutch upgrade to twin plate on a V8 Vantage no longer is because AML now offer that part to all V8 Vantages.
Anyway - I just tell them about anything and everything they could possibly use as a way to try to get out of a claim so that they can't if it ever comes to that. Mine are perfectly ok with it all and charge me a very small premium for the trouble.
Anyway - I just tell them about anything and everything they could possibly use as a way to try to get out of a claim so that they can't if it ever comes to that. Mine are perfectly ok with it all and charge me a very small premium for the trouble.
I disagree that the Bilsteins are a modification, they are a replacement part otherwise fitting non-OEM tyres or NGK spark plugs could also be considered a mod.
Removing primary cats is definately a mod unless they are being replaced, whereas I suspect you have removed yours and installed new secondary cats. Theoretically, this was discussed earlier and is actually against MOT regulations and such a modified system would not be considered roadworthy, however, I dont see a problem there unless the emissions are excessive causing further investigation.
It was only a couple of weeks ago a guy crashed his Vauxhall doing 150mph and the insurers, police and press had a field day with his cat removal and remap making the car illegal and unroadworthy.
Removing primary cats is definately a mod unless they are being replaced, whereas I suspect you have removed yours and installed new secondary cats. Theoretically, this was discussed earlier and is actually against MOT regulations and such a modified system would not be considered roadworthy, however, I dont see a problem there unless the emissions are excessive causing further investigation.
It was only a couple of weeks ago a guy crashed his Vauxhall doing 150mph and the insurers, police and press had a field day with his cat removal and remap making the car illegal and unroadworthy.
Edited by 8Tech on Monday 29th March 20:42
Hi Jonanthank56, I did a full-house BR modification programme on my 2018 Vantage V8S over a year ago, and then shipped to my home in Auckland, New Zealand.
As with you, access to full, unlimited insurance cover was a pre-condition of the extensive modification programme. Once I had the full quote from Bamford Rose, I discussed this in total transparency with my usual general insurer (been with them for 30 years with houses, contents and various interesting cars).
The purchase and importation of the Aston from the UK, and the subsequent modification, didn't concern them at all, although they did point out a near-as-dammit NZD$200,000 (UK Pound 100,000) thoroughly modified Aston was a little out of their league!
As an alternate, I approached a specialist insurance broker in Auckland, who was first rate. He introduced me to a specialist classic car insurer in NZ who specialized in exotics, performance and classic cars. Again, total transparency including tabling proposed vehicle in the UK at an Aston dealer, the BR modifications lists and costing, and my proposed use - better always to learn of any potential insurance issue at the beginning of the insurance relationship, rather than once a claim is on the table - particularly for a reasonably heavily modified car.
The specialist insurer was only too happy to provide cover - although did initially suggest an annual mileage cap of 10,000 kms. I baulked at that, as I'd most likely clock up twice that rate annually. No problem, and the quote landed - an annual premium of NZD$2,087 (c. UK Pound1,000) for cover of NZD$190,000 (UK Pound 95,000), with excess for any claim of 1% of amount covered, or NZD$1,900 (UK Pound 850), no annual mileage limitation, and by the way, full cover while on UK plates in storage at my Auckland home for 2 months prior to NZ registration and NZ customs clearance, as a result of the pandemic.
I appreciate these numbers are likely very different from the UK insurance experience, but what is very similar is the up-front decision to be fully transparent about the extent and purpose of the BR modification programme, and openly discuss proposed use, and your relationship with the insurer.
Most importantly, I have always found my explicit acknowledgement of my "duty of care" to the insurer will always pay handsome dividends.
Those three words tell the underwriter all he needs to know about your risk profile - as the potential insured you understand his insurance risk, you understand your obligations to mitigate the insurer's risk, you confirm will be fully transparent, and will communicate effectively at all times. That translates to surety in insurance terms, which (usually) translates to acceptance and price (and a likely more forgiving stance when an unfortunate claim is on the table).
Hope that helps.
As with you, access to full, unlimited insurance cover was a pre-condition of the extensive modification programme. Once I had the full quote from Bamford Rose, I discussed this in total transparency with my usual general insurer (been with them for 30 years with houses, contents and various interesting cars).
The purchase and importation of the Aston from the UK, and the subsequent modification, didn't concern them at all, although they did point out a near-as-dammit NZD$200,000 (UK Pound 100,000) thoroughly modified Aston was a little out of their league!
As an alternate, I approached a specialist insurance broker in Auckland, who was first rate. He introduced me to a specialist classic car insurer in NZ who specialized in exotics, performance and classic cars. Again, total transparency including tabling proposed vehicle in the UK at an Aston dealer, the BR modifications lists and costing, and my proposed use - better always to learn of any potential insurance issue at the beginning of the insurance relationship, rather than once a claim is on the table - particularly for a reasonably heavily modified car.
The specialist insurer was only too happy to provide cover - although did initially suggest an annual mileage cap of 10,000 kms. I baulked at that, as I'd most likely clock up twice that rate annually. No problem, and the quote landed - an annual premium of NZD$2,087 (c. UK Pound1,000) for cover of NZD$190,000 (UK Pound 95,000), with excess for any claim of 1% of amount covered, or NZD$1,900 (UK Pound 850), no annual mileage limitation, and by the way, full cover while on UK plates in storage at my Auckland home for 2 months prior to NZ registration and NZ customs clearance, as a result of the pandemic.
I appreciate these numbers are likely very different from the UK insurance experience, but what is very similar is the up-front decision to be fully transparent about the extent and purpose of the BR modification programme, and openly discuss proposed use, and your relationship with the insurer.
Most importantly, I have always found my explicit acknowledgement of my "duty of care" to the insurer will always pay handsome dividends.
Those three words tell the underwriter all he needs to know about your risk profile - as the potential insured you understand his insurance risk, you understand your obligations to mitigate the insurer's risk, you confirm will be fully transparent, and will communicate effectively at all times. That translates to surety in insurance terms, which (usually) translates to acceptance and price (and a likely more forgiving stance when an unfortunate claim is on the table).
Hope that helps.
Jonathank56 said:
Swapping standard dampers for Bilsteins is just a change of shock absorber not a modification.
Same for thicker under plates.
I guess you could argue the addition of a rear anti roll bar is a modification.
Removing primary cars is an engine protection measure.
Fast flow secondaries is, IMO, on the line.
I think ALL of those would almost certainly be a modification in the eyes of you insurer, except perhaps the Bilsteins. If they are identical specification to the OEM parts then it would not be, if however they offer any level of improvement (which is presumably why you fitted them), then they would be a modification.Same for thicker under plates.
I guess you could argue the addition of a rear anti roll bar is a modification.
Removing primary cars is an engine protection measure.
Fast flow secondaries is, IMO, on the line.
As said above - anything that changes the spec of how it left the factory is a mod really. Changing the make of tyres is about as far as you can go really, but if you change the size or profile then it is again a modification.
Utmost good faith is the term used when an underwriter takes a risk on. So the insured party has to give full disclosure.
I've priced up insurance for modifications before - from a simple exhaust change to a rebuild to 700bhp 7.0litre V12.
The extra amount was trivial, I think it was £150 extra for 510bhp to 700bhp.
Just tell the insurer in writing, posted recorded delivery, keep a copy of the letter and the postal receipt.
Then you don't get the dreaded "underwriting at claims stage" ...
I've priced up insurance for modifications before - from a simple exhaust change to a rebuild to 700bhp 7.0litre V12.
The extra amount was trivial, I think it was £150 extra for 510bhp to 700bhp.
Just tell the insurer in writing, posted recorded delivery, keep a copy of the letter and the postal receipt.
Then you don't get the dreaded "underwriting at claims stage" ...
Yes, a big fan of full disclosure insurance, all my BR mods did cause a long telephone conversation going through them, and then an increase of £15 on a £400 policy. A cheap way to sleep easy.
I am no expert but the emphasis when informing the insurers was whether (and by how much) performance is enhanced - up to 25% more power was within the range of my particular policy. If in any doubt, tell them is my view. At least then you have a time and date of a conversation. Must send them my mod sheet.....
I am no expert but the emphasis when informing the insurers was whether (and by how much) performance is enhanced - up to 25% more power was within the range of my particular policy. If in any doubt, tell them is my view. At least then you have a time and date of a conversation. Must send them my mod sheet.....
Cold said:
Anything that is not to the same specification when the car was manufactured is a modification.
Whether or not your insurance company would consider them to influence the cost of your premium would be up to them to decide.
Different insurance companies take different views, as might be expected. Whether or not your insurance company would consider them to influence the cost of your premium would be up to them to decide.
A friend changed from solid to cross-drilled front discs (not an AM), advised his insurance company (not a 'cheap' company, been with them for years, several cars); answer 'Sorry, we don't cover modified cars'. Counted as a modification, business had to be taken elsewhere.
AdamV12V said:
Jonathank56 said:
Swapping standard dampers for Bilsteins is just a change of shock absorber not a modification.
Same for thicker under plates.
I guess you could argue the addition of a rear anti roll bar is a modification.
Removing primary cars is an engine protection measure.
Fast flow secondaries is, IMO, on the line.
I think ALL of those would almost certainly be a modification in the eyes of you insurer, except perhaps the Bilsteins. If they are identical specification to the OEM parts then it would not be, if however they offer any level of improvement (which is presumably why you fitted them), then they would be a modification.Same for thicker under plates.
I guess you could argue the addition of a rear anti roll bar is a modification.
Removing primary cars is an engine protection measure.
Fast flow secondaries is, IMO, on the line.
As said above - anything that changes the spec of how it left the factory is a mod really. Changing the make of tyres is about as far as you can go really, but if you change the size or profile then it is again a modification.
8Tech said:
Then if this is the case, how about replacement brake pads that are not OEM? They should be quality approved (probably not ebay) but are still not OEM on something as safety critical as the brakes. This would be approaching the "type approved or illegal" situation of Switzerland or Japan's 7 year MOT. Also brings into question of Powerflex bushes etc (if they come available), LED external bulbs, non e-marked replacement bulbs etc, etc. A minefield the insurers are happy to use to their advantage.
I think these would be considered as 'consumables' and wouldn't fall under a modification (how far do you take it, different engine oil !?!). My car has lots of mods and I had to change insurer to ensure I would be fully covered (went from Footman James to Adrian Flux). I decided on full disclosure and its a painful conversation listing them all, but also piece of mind. For info, I got DBS 20" alloys, V12 side skirts, new carbon front and rear bumpers, clear rear lights, DAE performance upgrade, TUBI exhaust, lightweight seats (Cobra) and I've probably still missed some off. Each insurance company determines the modifications slightly differently, so definitely worth checking a few to get the best price. An insurer will increase their investigation of undeclared irregularities, in proportion to the monentary value of a claim.
If you ever face the awful choice of maiming an adult or a child, choose the adult. A permanently injured youngster needs financial support for a far longer time period. Insurers think about the aspects which increase claims payments.
Watch what happens now to the Suez container ship incident. If the cause was simply unexpected strong winds, the insurers can be more relaxed, however if the proximate cause involves any negligence, then there will be hundreds of claims submitted, including from ships stuck in the queues.
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