The Army? For Defence or for "Eco"?
Discussion
"Electric tanks and vegetarian options in the mess are just some of the ways the Armed Forces will go greener, the Ministry of Defence has revealed. The MoD sets out in a new report how it will respond to “the threat posed by climate change”, "
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/29/challe...
Is it just me or should the top priority of the army to be the most effective fighting force it can be not worrying about climate change?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/29/challe...
Is it just me or should the top priority of the army to be the most effective fighting force it can be not worrying about climate change?
Are the two aims mutually exclusive?
The challenge of supplying fuel to expeditionary forces should not be underestimated. Both security of supply as well as the logistics involved in getting it to the front line consume a lot of resource and are a potential weakness.
A more secure supply of fuel and even self sufficient bases would be a huge increase in effectiveness.
The challenge of supplying fuel to expeditionary forces should not be underestimated. Both security of supply as well as the logistics involved in getting it to the front line consume a lot of resource and are a potential weakness.
A more secure supply of fuel and even self sufficient bases would be a huge increase in effectiveness.
Hybrid tanks might actually be a good idea - rather than idling for hours at a time, the ability to be “on, but silent and not hot” is attractive. Actual electric tanks - not with the sort of tanks they have today. A 60 tonne vehicle doing sub 1 mpg would need a battery the size of an articulated truck.
I suspect also that the army has realised that fighting “proper” opponents with tanks is liable to lead to a lot of casualties, For bashing 3rd world despots, tanks are great. Up against Russian and Chinese tech .... less so. So a future tank may be a lightly armoured, uncrewed “bomb carrier”, might be more suited to electric.
On the overall point I’d agree. When it comes to armies, the only metric should be effectiveness. Eco stuff needs to take a back seat.
I suspect also that the army has realised that fighting “proper” opponents with tanks is liable to lead to a lot of casualties, For bashing 3rd world despots, tanks are great. Up against Russian and Chinese tech .... less so. So a future tank may be a lightly armoured, uncrewed “bomb carrier”, might be more suited to electric.
On the overall point I’d agree. When it comes to armies, the only metric should be effectiveness. Eco stuff needs to take a back seat.
Vegetarian options and electric tanks? Sounds more like putting already in existence plans in to a press release for a bit of green washing. Does anyone think that there are not already vegetarian options in place or that the next generation of tanks would not be at least partly electrified?
Silent running without a huge IR signature seems like a major advantage for tanks regardless of the eco credentials and given the number of Hindus, Buddhists Sikhs and Muslims, along with just plain old vegetarians by choice, in the armed forces i can’t see how they would not have vegetarian options.
Silent running without a huge IR signature seems like a major advantage for tanks regardless of the eco credentials and given the number of Hindus, Buddhists Sikhs and Muslims, along with just plain old vegetarians by choice, in the armed forces i can’t see how they would not have vegetarian options.
Edited by Electro1980 on Tuesday 30th March 12:50
If and when electric vehicles have a military advantage then go for it. The article suggested that climate change should have any value when deciding what equipment to buy or the diet of our soldiers. I say it should have none.
At present when operating away from base I'd suggest a tanker is more mobile than an electricity system and car carry a far greater store of energy than batteries. Generators need a fuel supply so cut out the middle man and fuel the vehicles.
At present when operating away from base I'd suggest a tanker is more mobile than an electricity system and car carry a far greater store of energy than batteries. Generators need a fuel supply so cut out the middle man and fuel the vehicles.
I am sure it was Clarkson who pointed out the madness of tanks being eco friendly out the exhaust but firing depleted uranium rounds out the front.
Diet sure explore best nutrition for troops etc and electric tanks might have a future but when we are talking war, environmental issues seem a little dubious
Diet sure explore best nutrition for troops etc and electric tanks might have a future but when we are talking war, environmental issues seem a little dubious
Sounds like this bloke really drank the Kool-Aid with his ideas on diet and everything else.
As for electric / hybrid tanks they haven't exactly got a great history, all the way back to when Porsche tried to make them work and couldn't. Tech has moved on but you're still never going to get the performance you need.
The Chinese and Russians will say 'f
k the environment' and they'll win.
As for electric / hybrid tanks they haven't exactly got a great history, all the way back to when Porsche tried to make them work and couldn't. Tech has moved on but you're still never going to get the performance you need.
The Chinese and Russians will say 'f
k the environment' and they'll win. Battery-powered or hybrid tanks seem like a great idea if they can design one with a good enough range. No need for millions of barrels of oil to run your war effort, and cutting back the enormous tail of modern militaries means more money for front-line troops
Didn't some German say that commanding a tank division is the easy part, but it takes a genius to keep them supplied.
Didn't some German say that commanding a tank division is the easy part, but it takes a genius to keep them supplied.
BritishBlitz87 said:
Battery-powered or hybrid tanks seem like a great idea if they can design one with a good enough range. No need for millions of barrels of oil to run your war effort, and cutting back the enormous tail of modern militaries means more money for front-line troops
Didn't some German say that commanding a tank division is the easy part, but it takes a genius to keep them supplied.
Didn't some German say that commanding a tank division is the easy part, but it takes a genius to keep them supplied.
Sounds like a great future, assuming you can pull all those megawatts of electricity for charging out of thin air.
To be honest it sounds like an even bigger and more complex supply train than before.
Biggy Stardust said:
I was once on a course where I leant a valuable lesson- never, ever send the veggie in the group to pick up the ration packs. They wish to inflict their dietary choices on everyone else.
Whereas a meat eater would never come back without suitable veggie options?The forces have long been doing there best to reduce the opportunity for people to say "Why do we send money on all this stuff anyway?".
This is what happens when you do an integrated review, integrating defence which needs to work anytime, anywhere, with no lead time with a government policy based on fixed infrastructure and a glacial pace of change.
It doesn't make sense, the idea exists on paper but will simply never be enacted in practice.
It doesn't make sense, the idea exists on paper but will simply never be enacted in practice.
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