Dangerous Cyclists!
Discussion
Here are some of the errors that bike riders frequently commit which greatly increase the chances of a collision with a motor vehicle:
1. They do not follow the traffic laws for vehicles when operating a bicycle. Instead,
a) they may use the traffic laws for pedestrians and thus ride on the sidewalks or the wrong way on the streets,
b) they may follow the traffic code for vehicles part of the time but not all of the time,
c) they may adopt a policy of hiding from motor vehicles rather than riding in the traffic lanes,
d) they may be guerilla cyclists deliberately breaking the law,
e) or they just might not think about how they are behaving.
2. They don't have lights mounted on their bikes when riding at night.
3. They ride along in the gutter or weave in and out between cars.
4. They don't pay attention to nearby vehicles.
5. They haven't learned how to control their bicycles effectively.
6. They panic when motor vehicles approach.
7. They don't keep the bike in sound mechanical condition.
8. They ride when too tired (or even drunk) to do so safely.
1. They do not follow the traffic laws for vehicles when operating a bicycle. Instead,
a) they may use the traffic laws for pedestrians and thus ride on the sidewalks or the wrong way on the streets,
b) they may follow the traffic code for vehicles part of the time but not all of the time,
c) they may adopt a policy of hiding from motor vehicles rather than riding in the traffic lanes,
d) they may be guerilla cyclists deliberately breaking the law,
e) or they just might not think about how they are behaving.
2. They don't have lights mounted on their bikes when riding at night.
3. They ride along in the gutter or weave in and out between cars.
4. They don't pay attention to nearby vehicles.
5. They haven't learned how to control their bicycles effectively.
6. They panic when motor vehicles approach.
7. They don't keep the bike in sound mechanical condition.
8. They ride when too tired (or even drunk) to do so safely.
The causes of cycle crashes.
Research shows that in the great majority of cycle/motor vehicle crashes it is the driver of the motor vehicle who is wholly or substantially at fault. For example, Transport and Road Research Laboratory Report RR 220 (1989) found that cyclists were to blame in only 17% of cyclist/vehicle collisions. Similarly, the motoring organisation the AA, notorious for underplaying the responsibilities of drivers and being very quick to pass the blame onto cyclists where ever possible, produced a report called ‘Urban Accidents: why do they happen?' which found that a cyclist was at fault in only 27% of cases.
A large percentage of crashes involving a cyclist and motor vehicle are due to a few common errors.
1) The driver of a motor vehicle pulling out of a junction or onto a roundabout into the path of a cyclist. This is often due to the driver failing to take due note of the speed of the approaching cyclist.
2) The driver of a motor vehicle overtaking a cyclist immediately before executing a left turn.
3) A driver opening a car door into the path of a cyclist. (This is an offence even if the cyclist does not strike the door).
4) The majority of crashes occurring on country roads, many of which are fatal, are due to drivers going into corners at a speed above that at which they can stop well within the distance they can see to be clear.
5) Drivers forcing their way past cyclist at road narrowings. DfT research shows over 70% of drivers will overtake a cyclist just before or at a gap as narrow as 3.1m.
6) Overtaking a cyclist too closely. 'The Highway Code' recommends that a driver only overtakes when it is safe to do so, indicating and moving across the centre line when they do overtake.
www.thebikezone.org.uk/thebikezone/campaigning/besafe.html
Research shows that in the great majority of cycle/motor vehicle crashes it is the driver of the motor vehicle who is wholly or substantially at fault. For example, Transport and Road Research Laboratory Report RR 220 (1989) found that cyclists were to blame in only 17% of cyclist/vehicle collisions. Similarly, the motoring organisation the AA, notorious for underplaying the responsibilities of drivers and being very quick to pass the blame onto cyclists where ever possible, produced a report called ‘Urban Accidents: why do they happen?' which found that a cyclist was at fault in only 27% of cases.
A large percentage of crashes involving a cyclist and motor vehicle are due to a few common errors.
1) The driver of a motor vehicle pulling out of a junction or onto a roundabout into the path of a cyclist. This is often due to the driver failing to take due note of the speed of the approaching cyclist.
2) The driver of a motor vehicle overtaking a cyclist immediately before executing a left turn.
3) A driver opening a car door into the path of a cyclist. (This is an offence even if the cyclist does not strike the door).
4) The majority of crashes occurring on country roads, many of which are fatal, are due to drivers going into corners at a speed above that at which they can stop well within the distance they can see to be clear.
5) Drivers forcing their way past cyclist at road narrowings. DfT research shows over 70% of drivers will overtake a cyclist just before or at a gap as narrow as 3.1m.
6) Overtaking a cyclist too closely. 'The Highway Code' recommends that a driver only overtakes when it is safe to do so, indicating and moving across the centre line when they do overtake.
www.thebikezone.org.uk/thebikezone/campaigning/besafe.html
neil.b said:
In essence then, under-trained, under-protected, under-educated, performing manouvers which contradict the highway code and generally making danger for themselves and other road users.
Isn't it time we banned bicycles or at least made them go slower for their own safety?
Thats like saying we should ban motorists or at least make them slower because there are a few idiots behind the wheel.
I cycle a lot to keep me fit. I do notice a lot of idiot cyclists who don't obey the rules of the road. But I do and I respect the position of motorists when on my bicycle.
However, I notice cases of drivers putting my safety at risk most times I cycle, even though I try to do this as safely as I can.
Bad drivers on the road are more of a danger to cyclists than cyclists are to motorists. Flesh and bones aren't much competition against metal are they!
>> Edited by funkyrobot on Monday 11th July 11:07
funkyrobot said:
In essence then, under-trained, under-protected, under-educated, performing manouvers which contradict the highway code and generally making danger for themselves and other road users.
Isn't it time we banned bicycles or at least made them go slower for their own safety?
Thats like saying we should ban motorists or at least make them slower because there are a few idiots behind the wheel.
I cycle a lot to keep me fit. I do notice a lot of idiot cyclists who don't obey the rules of the road. But I do and I respect the position of motorists when on my bicycle.
However, I notice cases of drivers putting my safety at risk most times I cycle, even though I try to do this as safely as I can.
Bad drivers on the road are more of a danger to cyclists than cyclists are to motorists. Flesh and bones aren't much competition against metal are they!
>> Edited by funkyrobot on Monday 11th July 11:07
I was just making a point FR.
I don't think cyclists should be banned but I was just illustrating that cyclists, in general, are not totally blameless when it comes to their own safety on the roads. Yet they are allowed to wander through traffic with no training and often with no safety helmets and showing disregard for traffic laws. When car meets bike though, the finger is always pointed at the car driver.
Even the author of that site says;
"While there are both dangerous and clueless motorists, the vast majority have no desire to harm cyclists and attempt to drive safely and appropriately when cyclists are around. Motorists nearly always obey the traffic code, except for driving too fast, and they usually will cooperate with the cyclist."
(I even included his snipe about driving too fast, in the interest of balance
) Speaking as a dangerous Cyclist...I knocked off my bike last Wednesday...
Cyclists are most certainly contributory to accidents involving them. The accident I had involved both myself and the car driver making mistakes.
My mistakes were:
1) Cycling across a pedestrian crossing - too lazy to get off and push the bike.
2) Watching the crossing lights and acting on them without checking whether or not the car traffic was stopping.
His mistake was
1) Not stopping for amber/red at a pedestrian crossing.
Result: Bike goes twenty feet. I go six foot in the air and land on my arse. Thankfully almost no damage to either car or bike - and only minor damage to me. One very shaken old chap of a driver.
I was being a numpty-head-in-the-clouds idiot at the time. I would never consider driving my car without paying full attention. I have been forcibly reminded to do the same when riding my bike!
So I relate very much to those "causes" as espoused in your post. If I had avoided those mistakes my backside would not now be so sore...
Cyclists are most certainly contributory to accidents involving them. The accident I had involved both myself and the car driver making mistakes.
My mistakes were:
1) Cycling across a pedestrian crossing - too lazy to get off and push the bike.
2) Watching the crossing lights and acting on them without checking whether or not the car traffic was stopping.
His mistake was
1) Not stopping for amber/red at a pedestrian crossing.
Result: Bike goes twenty feet. I go six foot in the air and land on my arse. Thankfully almost no damage to either car or bike - and only minor damage to me. One very shaken old chap of a driver.
I was being a numpty-head-in-the-clouds idiot at the time. I would never consider driving my car without paying full attention. I have been forcibly reminded to do the same when riding my bike!
So I relate very much to those "causes" as espoused in your post. If I had avoided those mistakes my backside would not now be so sore...
neil.b said:
neil.b said:
In essence then, under-trained, under-protected, under-educated, performing manouvers which contradict the highway code and generally making danger for themselves and other road users.
Isn't it time we banned bicycles or at least made them go slower for their own safety?
Thats like saying we should ban motorists or at least make them slower because there are a few idiots behind the wheel.
I cycle a lot to keep me fit. I do notice a lot of idiot cyclists who don't obey the rules of the road. But I do and I respect the position of motorists when on my bicycle.
However, I notice cases of drivers putting my safety at risk most times I cycle, even though I try to do this as safely as I can.
Bad drivers on the road are more of a danger to cyclists than cyclists are to motorists. Flesh and bones aren't much competition against metal are they!
>> Edited by funkyrobot on Monday 11th July 11:07
I was just making a point FR.
I don't think cyclists should be banned but I was just illustrating that cyclists, in general, are not totally blameless when it comes to their own safety on the roads. Yet they are allowed to wander through traffic with no training and often with no safety helmets and showing disregard for traffic laws. When car meets bike though, the finger is always pointed at the car driver.
Even the author of that site says;
"While there are both dangerous and clueless motorists, the vast majority have no desire to harm cyclists and attempt to drive safely and appropriately when cyclists are around. Motorists nearly always obey the traffic code, except for driving too fast, and they usually will cooperate with the cyclist."
(I even included his snipe about driving too fast, in the interest of balance
Oh yes, I wasn't having a go at you because I completely agree that sometimes cyclists can cause themselves injury.
However, on my rides I see a hell of a lot more dangerous driving than I do dangerous cycling. Maybe its because cars heavily outnumber bicycles in rural Lincolnshire.
One very fine example of dangerous cycling was when I followed an old club chap home a couple of years ago. He was wobbling around on the road, went the wrong way down a one way street, and just generally scared the life out of me with his antics. I don't do this when I ride and I am very aware of the rules when I am on the road when cycling. This chap really annoyed me, and he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.
As I drive many thousands of miles a year I can take the viewpoint of a motorist when i'm cycling. It also works the other way round when i'm driving. Maybe more drivers should be made to spend some time cycling around to get a feel of what its like to be a cyclist on modern roads. Would give some drivers more respect i'd bet!
I know drivers need to take tests before they go out on the road, but we all know that the test is very very basic in nature and it doesn't really cover enough in relation to vulnerable road users like cyclists.
I see so many drivers panic when they need to overtake a nippy cyclist who is doing nothing wrong. The worst sort of drivers are actually the ones who rush their overtaking of cyclists. They cannot slow down if they can't complete a safe manouvre, they start the overtake and then cut in on the cyclist which is very dangerous.
I also dislike the drivers who 'do not see' cyclists and don't regard them as rightful road users. I have been cut up at give ways and roundabouts no end of times because drivers have either not seen me or simply tried to force their way past me knowing full well that they are surrounded by metal.
However, none of this makes me want to ban cars and drivers. Just sort the bloody idiots out. More trafpol would be great, but with the rise of the machines this ain't gonna happen.
We could go on and on for ages debating cyclist vs motorist. However, I feel (just like you Neil) that there are instances of dangerous driving and riding by both parties which result in accidents. What makes it worse when its car vs bicycle is the fact that we have no protection around us on a bicycle.
With regards to helmet use and lights on bikes. Helmets are not compulsory by law in this country so cyclists do not have to wear them. I wear mine, wouldn't go anywhere without it. Also, cyclists who don't have lights on their bikes in dark conditions are just plain stupid! Lights and high-vis are the way forward, but sometimes this can make you a target!! Very worrying.
It would be good if all cyclists had to pass a profiency test to get onto the roads. I did one when I was about 6. It would also be very beneficial if all motorists (and, especially, motorcyclists and scooterists) had to take a cycling proficiency test (disabilities allowing) before learning to drive. Then at least they ought to have some understanding of cyclists, their likely behaviour and the need to avoid hitting them or putting them under threat!
I have recently started commuting on a bicycle in London again after two or three years' gap. It is noticeable that there are rather more threats to one's safety by numpty motorists than there used to be. And on Friday, for the first time, I came across a driver who *deliberately* tried to hurt me!
Cycling around Vauxhall Cross, starting at the Kennington Lane end and heading for Wandsworth Road, I started to move from lane 1 to lane 2 well in advance of some stopped traffic, having checked over my shoulder and stuck my arm out all the way at 90 degrees. I was travelling at more than 20mph. But I quickly had to pull my arm in, in reaction to engine noise from behind. The silver Megane convertible that had been in lane 3 was now speeding (about 50mph in a 30 limit)past me, in the lane I had just entered, and annot have missed me by more than 2 inches.
Somewhat unsurprisingly, the driver had to brake to make the turn towards the river in traffic and, as I reverted to lane 1 once it was clear, I was alongside him again. "Are you blind?" I called. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I've always thought drivers ought to know when they've committed an error. Next thing I know, the driver has stamped on the accelerator and swerved into lane 1 right in front of me, then stamped on the brake with nothing in front of him, in order that my bicycle would hit the car from behind.
I find it astonishing that any driver would deliberately try and cause a cyclist to crash. I called the police to report him for failure to stop and they advised me to make an allegation of dangerous driving. But naturally they had no plans to look for the car on Nine Elms Lane, where they might just have had a police car available.
As with the only previous time I have reported failure to stop, I have my doubts about whether any action will ensue. Hopefully CCTV will help. But I remain flabbergasted at the attempt to hurt a cyclist. If anyone knows the driver, please say so: V599JPM.
I have recently started commuting on a bicycle in London again after two or three years' gap. It is noticeable that there are rather more threats to one's safety by numpty motorists than there used to be. And on Friday, for the first time, I came across a driver who *deliberately* tried to hurt me!
Cycling around Vauxhall Cross, starting at the Kennington Lane end and heading for Wandsworth Road, I started to move from lane 1 to lane 2 well in advance of some stopped traffic, having checked over my shoulder and stuck my arm out all the way at 90 degrees. I was travelling at more than 20mph. But I quickly had to pull my arm in, in reaction to engine noise from behind. The silver Megane convertible that had been in lane 3 was now speeding (about 50mph in a 30 limit)past me, in the lane I had just entered, and annot have missed me by more than 2 inches.
Somewhat unsurprisingly, the driver had to brake to make the turn towards the river in traffic and, as I reverted to lane 1 once it was clear, I was alongside him again. "Are you blind?" I called. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I've always thought drivers ought to know when they've committed an error. Next thing I know, the driver has stamped on the accelerator and swerved into lane 1 right in front of me, then stamped on the brake with nothing in front of him, in order that my bicycle would hit the car from behind.
I find it astonishing that any driver would deliberately try and cause a cyclist to crash. I called the police to report him for failure to stop and they advised me to make an allegation of dangerous driving. But naturally they had no plans to look for the car on Nine Elms Lane, where they might just have had a police car available.
As with the only previous time I have reported failure to stop, I have my doubts about whether any action will ensue. Hopefully CCTV will help. But I remain flabbergasted at the attempt to hurt a cyclist. If anyone knows the driver, please say so: V599JPM.
charltm said:
It would be good if all cyclists had to pass a profiency test to get onto the roads. I did one when I was about 6. It would also be very beneficial if all motorists (and, especially, motorcyclists and scooterists) had to take a cycling proficiency test (disabilities allowing) before learning to drive. Then at least they ought to have some understanding of cyclists, their likely behaviour and the need to avoid hitting them or putting them under threat!
I have recently started commuting on a bicycle in London again after two or three years' gap. It is noticeable that there are rather more threats to one's safety by numpty motorists than there used to be. And on Friday, for the first time, I came across a driver who *deliberately* tried to hurt me!
Cycling around Vauxhall Cross, starting at the Kennington Lane end and heading for Wandsworth Road, I started to move from lane 1 to lane 2 well in advance of some stopped traffic, having checked over my shoulder and stuck my arm out all the way at 90 degrees. I was travelling at more than 20mph. But I quickly had to pull my arm in, in reaction to engine noise from behind. The silver Megane convertible that had been in lane 3 was now speeding (about 50mph in a 30 limit)past me, in the lane I had just entered, and annot have missed me by more than 2 inches.
Somewhat unsurprisingly, the driver had to brake to make the turn towards the river in traffic and, as I reverted to lane 1 once it was clear, I was alongside him again. "Are you blind?" I called. Perhaps I shouldn't, but I've always thought drivers ought to know when they've committed an error. Next thing I know, the driver has stamped on the accelerator and swerved into lane 1 right in front of me, then stamped on the brake with nothing in front of him, in order that my bicycle would hit the car from behind.
I find it astonishing that any driver would deliberately try and cause a cyclist to crash. I called the police to report him for failure to stop and they advised me to make an allegation of dangerous driving. But naturally they had no plans to look for the car on Nine Elms Lane, where they might just have had a police car available.
As with the only previous time I have reported failure to stop, I have my doubts about whether any action will ensue. Hopefully CCTV will help. But I remain flabbergasted at the attempt to hurt a cyclist. If anyone knows the driver, please say so: V599JPM.
Charl, I feel for you mate, must be very nasty when car drivers get like that and you know that the person in the car IS trying to hurt you.
Sorry I can't be of help with identifying the driver, I live miles away from you.
However I do know one thing, he/she is a total and complete and utter t
at and shouldn't be allowed on the road with behaviour like that!! 
I was verbally abused by a tt on a bike last week...I passed him giving him plenty of room but because he decided he wanted to weave all over the road to avoid drains he came pretty close to my car and thats when I saw and heard him abuse me....
Now I ride a bike and I know it will hurt me alot less if I ride over the drains rather than swerve into the path of a car...Same also applies when it rains,they wont go through a puddle but will swerve out without looking to avoid it..
t on a bike last week...I passed him giving him plenty of room but because he decided he wanted to weave all over the road to avoid drains he came pretty close to my car and thats when I saw and heard him abuse me.... Now I ride a bike and I know it will hurt me alot less if I ride over the drains rather than swerve into the path of a car...Same also applies when it rains,they wont go through a puddle but will swerve out without looking to avoid it..
colonel_smith said:
I was verbally abused by a t
Now I ride a bike and I know it will hurt me alot less if I ride over the drains rather than swerve into the path of a car...Same also applies when it rains,they wont go through a puddle but will swerve out without looking to avoid it..
So how are you meant to cycle over a drain which has the drain holes orientated in the direction of travel, and a width wider than that of the tyre? I'm afraid you have to swerve out slightly. Cars should be able to give riders a buffer zone to work with.
This is ludicrous. I love driving as much as the next person, but cannot believe how scary it is when out on a bike. Dangerous driving is far more of a threat
"I passed him giving him plenty of room but because he decided he wanted to weave all over the road to avoid drains he came pretty close to my car and thats when I saw and heard him abuse me.... "
Drain covers are less than two feet in diameter.
This means you have just admitted that you passed a cyclist with less than two feet clearance when the HC clearly says you should leave the same room as for a vehicle, precisely because cyclists wobble to avoid the worst part of the road surface.
My question colonel, is why are you on the roads when you are appallingly ignorant as to your responsibilities?
Drain covers are less than two feet in diameter.
This means you have just admitted that you passed a cyclist with less than two feet clearance when the HC clearly says you should leave the same room as for a vehicle, precisely because cyclists wobble to avoid the worst part of the road surface.
My question colonel, is why are you on the roads when you are appallingly ignorant as to your responsibilities?
[quote=martincroweDrain covers are less than two feet in diameter.
This means you have just admitted that you passed a cyclist with less than two feet clearance when the HC clearly says you should leave the same room as for a vehicle, precisely because cyclists wobble to avoid the worst part of the road surface.
[/quote]
It proves nothing of the sort.You have no idea how far out the cyclist swerved.
This means you have just admitted that you passed a cyclist with less than two feet clearance when the HC clearly says you should leave the same room as for a vehicle, precisely because cyclists wobble to avoid the worst part of the road surface.
[/quote]
It proves nothing of the sort.You have no idea how far out the cyclist swerved.
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