Another Forum (911UK)
Discussion
I’m guessing you’ve got a 997.1 ! They don’t like those over there as it de values their hallowed 996 with the best interior and lovely headlights.
I’ve found the American forums a much more unbiased place with heaps of knowledge and a love for all things 911 related.
I’ve found 911UK to be a bit odd, there’s a consensus that the gen1 997 is the worst car ever made. If it’s not bore scoring “literally” it’s IMS bearing ! £10k ! Sleepless nights ! Blah blah blah !
And don’t forget ! If you buy an 18 year old car with 150k on the clock that’s had 8 owners it’s the cars fault and not the owners !
ArchiesDad said:
I’m guessing you’ve got a 997.1 ! They don’t like those over there as it de values their hallowed 996 with the best interior and lovely headlights.
I’ve found the American forums a much more unbiased place with heaps of knowledge and a love for all things 911 related.
I’ve found 911UK to be a bit odd, there’s a consensus that the gen1 997 is the worst car ever made. If it’s not bore scoring “literally” it’s IMS bearing ! £10k ! Sleepless nights ! Blah blah blah!
Or for another view, the forum is fine with lots of good advice and support available. Of course that’s just my opinion and I have one of those worst cars ever made. 😀I’ve found the American forums a much more unbiased place with heaps of knowledge and a love for all things 911 related.
I’ve found 911UK to be a bit odd, there’s a consensus that the gen1 997 is the worst car ever made. If it’s not bore scoring “literally” it’s IMS bearing ! £10k ! Sleepless nights ! Blah blah blah!
As suggested though, The USA forums have a wealth of info...... I prefer Rennlist.
I too have one of the worst cars ever made, which is fault free, has no scoring and as a later .1 has the larger IMS with the bigger Nut. Low miles and low owners.
There’s no doubt that there are some genuine contributors on there who are some of the best in the business.
Odd in manner in which a top notch £30K gen .1 car with very low owners and miles gets debunked in favour of a 997.2 that’s on a register, had the front tub bonded together with glue and 25 bolts ?
ArchiesDad said:
I’m guessing you’ve got a 997.1 ! They don’t like those over there as it de values their hallowed 996 with the best interior and lovely headlights.
I’ve found the American forums a much more unbiased place with heaps of knowledge and a love for all things 911 related.
I’ve found 911UK to be a bit odd, there’s a consensus that the gen1 997 is the worst car ever made. If it’s not bore scoring “literally” it’s IMS bearing ! £10k ! Sleepless nights ! Blah blah blah !
And don’t forget ! If you buy an 18 year old car with 150k on the clock that’s had 8 owners it’s the cars fault and not the owners !
All sites have good and bad contributors, and 911UK has way more good than bad. They were the only forum willing to publicise information on a particular con-artist where others did not, which saved many people their hard earned cash.I’ve found the American forums a much more unbiased place with heaps of knowledge and a love for all things 911 related.
I’ve found 911UK to be a bit odd, there’s a consensus that the gen1 997 is the worst car ever made. If it’s not bore scoring “literally” it’s IMS bearing ! £10k ! Sleepless nights ! Blah blah blah !
And don’t forget ! If you buy an 18 year old car with 150k on the clock that’s had 8 owners it’s the cars fault and not the owners !
As for the 997 vs 996 argument, I ended up coming across a particular individual on there who openly slagged off 996’s because his 997TT ‘was far prettier in every way’ and anyone who said otherwise was blind or a liar. I didn’t discredit the entire forum because of one moron and neither should you.
It’s not just 1 individual, there are people on there who will gladly take on your ball and chain of grief and give up a full nights sleep on your behalf just because you drive a car that’s imminently about to explode. Some remarkable comments suggesting that individuals have actively advised others to sell their cars before they explode.
I just find it a very negative place to be when seeking out info on a specific vehicle, there’s an active bunch who regurgitate the same mantra about this time every year when the market generally starts to pick up, I’m not saying one 911 is better than the other, my dad had a 964 from new and was a real basket case in terms of niggles and leaks, inside outside and underneath. Back when Porsche dealers were few and far between, for him it was part of Sports car ownership. He sold it for a pittance compared to what it’s worth now and kept it because he couldn’t tell the difference between that and a 993. Buying a 997.1 he had no issues in over 65k miles only clutch, selling this for a 991 50th which he still has to day. Every year it goes back to the dealers for MOT and service and every year it comes back worth more than the year before. Every year he tells them the same thing ! As they offer to buy it he asks for a straight swap on a GT3 RS !
At 73 years old with all the time in the world he spends no time reading other people’s comments on a forum yet having just returned from the OPC having put a deposit on a 992 he will no doubt keep this until he stops driving, and having come from an era where driving to Cornwall from North Yorkshire in a Mini in the 1960’s where having to stop for a radiator replacement and a new exhaust the day after was all part of motoring ! Driving to Spain in an MG Midget with my Mother late 60’s was apparently how motoring should be, when they got there their spending money was gone on car repairs !
Some people buy what they can afford at that time, the fact it goes pop is mostly the fault of the person who bought it and who looks after it. 2nd hand cars require maintenance and buying a once expensive car for peanuts does not make the parts any cheaper, look at Audis Q7 or Range Rovers ! The parts are extortionate !
If you don’t want the hassle of mechanicals then buy a new one at an extortionate amount of money ! That way when it goes pop you have some one to shout at ! They won’t actually listen but the cars covered under warranty.
Buying used means you will have to spend money, whining about it achieves 4 5ths of •••• All !
Whining on some one else’s behalf is just pathetic !
ArchiesDad said:
Some people buy what they can afford at that time, the fact it goes pop is mostly the fault of the person who bought it and who looks after it.
Rather silly / ignorant generalisation. Some faults are down to owner / maintenance. Others may be unavoidable and a consequence of a design fault or manufacturing variances. Why generalise falsely? What does it gain you?There are many nutters on internet forums. Best thing is to try and help them understand, and when it doesn't work, walk away.
Let them fizz on their own vitriol.
smoking constantly. How did we kids survive?
I managed to drive to the Monaco GP in a Fiat X19 in 1991 - nowhere near as much an achievement as a Midget (I have one of those as well) though thinking about the electrics on the Fiat, maybe it was.
Let them fizz on their own vitriol.
ArchiesDad said:
... and having come from an era where driving to Cornwall from North Yorkshire in a Mini in the 1960’s where having to stop for a radiator replacement and a new exhaust the day after was all part of motoring ! Driving to Spain in an MG Midget with my Mother late 60’s was apparently how motoring should be, when they got there their spending money was gone on car repairs !
Ooo I like that. Chapeau. In the 1950s/60s my family used to drive from top 'o Lancashire to Cornwall, and then wear jackets on the beach, smoking constantly. How did we kids survive? I managed to drive to the Monaco GP in a Fiat X19 in 1991 - nowhere near as much an achievement as a Midget (I have one of those as well) though thinking about the electrics on the Fiat, maybe it was.
tonyg58 said:
Looking for some help if possible.
I tried to register on the 911UK forum and received my welcome e-mail on the 18th March, but still haven't had my activation e-mail yet.
Does anybody know if it normally takes this long? (I have been checking my spam folder).
Thanks in advance
Tony.
There’s a glitch somewhere. It’s a fine place, why don’t you ask them?I tried to register on the 911UK forum and received my welcome e-mail on the 18th March, but still haven't had my activation e-mail yet.
Does anybody know if it normally takes this long? (I have been checking my spam folder).
Thanks in advance
Tony.
F6C said:
ArchiesDad said:
Some people buy what they can afford at that time, the fact it goes pop is mostly the fault of the person who bought it and who looks after it.
Rather silly / ignorant generalisation. Some faults are down to owner / maintenance. Others may be unavoidable and a consequence of a design fault or manufacturing variances. Why generalise falsely? What does it gain you?I know they have inherent faults and would buy the car knowing this. It’s not as though the faults aren’t well known and as I said earlier if you want one with a warranty then put down £120k on one ?
Buying something that’s almost 20 years old that’s gone round the world 8 times and had as many owners and then breaking down..... that’s no one else’s fault except the person who bought it despite the problems it left the factory with.
The first owner who takes the hit on massive depreciation gets to moan about the faults that no one knew about ! If you’re buying 2nd hand and know the faults...... despite how the inside of your head works ! It’s NOT the cars fault it’s yours !
Look how many people post “I bought the car knowing it’s Achilles heel and if it goes pop then it’s still cost me less than the depreciation on a BMW 350d touring”
ArchiesDad said:
Buying something that’s almost 20 years old that’s gone round the world 8 times and had as many owners and then breaking down..... that’s no one else’s fault except the person who bought it despite the problems it left the factory with.
What a very odd thing to post. How any vaguely rational person could think that a 20 year old car breaking down was the 'fault' of the new owner, rather than a consequence of how it was designed, built and maintained in the previous 20 years is quite bizarre.Can't work out exactly what it is you're going on about or trying to prove. Oh well.
For the record, bore scoring and IMS failures typically have nothing to do with how an owner treats the car. They're largely down to manufacturing anf design issues.
If I were to give you the (very generous) benefit of the doubt, I'd say you making a very bad hash of are attempting to say that one ought to do due diligence pre purchase and that it would be a bit silly to go in blind with one of these cars and then cry foul when it imploded in short order. On which point I agree. But it's still not remotely the 'fault' of an owner when an engine with a design fault that causes it to score turns out to score.
Can you then confirm that a car, let’s say a 996... driven by my brother well over a decade ago from freezing with zero mechanical sympathy Hard for 6 years from Elgin to Lossiemouth in the depths of winter from sub zero temps and then return at night same journey from freezing will not have helped contribute to bore scoring ? On an auto ? Setting off as they do in 2nd gear, loaded up with torque.
And that’s the Manufacturers fault ?
Because some drivers will drive outside of the manufacturers parameters helping to increase the chance of bore scoring.
Even after knowing what we have known for a good few years I can get into a 996 for £10k and when it breaks I can blame the manufacturer ? That’s just crazy thinking ? Why would any one buy new if a manufacturer accepted every fault or failure on a two decades old car ?
Knowing as we do now that the IMS bearing issue was largely eradicated on the later .1’s and generally perceived to be a manufacturing FAULT ! Why would any one in their right mind but an early 997.1 ? Especially an auto, given the choice as most folk are when buying new or used, why buy a smaller bearing auto. Surely the consensus would be to think that a manual later .1 was where the safe bet was. Even safer buy a 997.2 ? Safer still a 991 ? Warranty and peace of mind but a 992.
We will have to agree to disagree but logic dictates “to me” that if I buy a car from a bloke advertising his wares on the internet and it goes pop, the bloke at the OPC would look at me like a right muppet if I walked in there with a set of keys to a car they might not have seen for the best part of 15 years.
I stand by my purchase, knowing the pitfalls of Porsche ownership. If it goes pop I can blame who ever I want... ultimately when I eventually stopped to think the ultimate action was my own and there fore it was my own fault !
Er, yeah. You clearly don't understand the basics of this.
Take, say, a basic 2.5-litre 986 Boxster. You won't get that to score, no matter how you drive it. Or take a 997.1 3.8-litre car. Some of them will score no matter how careful and mechanically sympathetic you are. Both have the same basic engine architecture, but specific design and manufacturing issues in the later 3.8-litre engine, including but not exclusive to, the change to plastic piston coatings from ferrous, changes to the Lokasil bore material, changes to the cooling design, plus increased torque, all contribute to make the 3.8 far, far more prone to scoring. Owner 'fault' doesn't enter into it.
Or take a 997.2 or 987.2. Try to see if you can get the IMS bearing to fail due to owner fault. Will, be difficult. It doesn't have an IMS. Likewise, on M96 cars with the small single-row bearing - there's pretty much nothing an owner can do re driving style that will make any difference to failure likelihood.
In short, very little of this stuff is the fault of the owner, no matter how many times someone repeats it in an increasingly shrill and crazed manner.
Take, say, a basic 2.5-litre 986 Boxster. You won't get that to score, no matter how you drive it. Or take a 997.1 3.8-litre car. Some of them will score no matter how careful and mechanically sympathetic you are. Both have the same basic engine architecture, but specific design and manufacturing issues in the later 3.8-litre engine, including but not exclusive to, the change to plastic piston coatings from ferrous, changes to the Lokasil bore material, changes to the cooling design, plus increased torque, all contribute to make the 3.8 far, far more prone to scoring. Owner 'fault' doesn't enter into it.
Or take a 997.2 or 987.2. Try to see if you can get the IMS bearing to fail due to owner fault. Will, be difficult. It doesn't have an IMS. Likewise, on M96 cars with the small single-row bearing - there's pretty much nothing an owner can do re driving style that will make any difference to failure likelihood.
In short, very little of this stuff is the fault of the owner, no matter how many times someone repeats it in an increasingly shrill and crazed manner.
Ok.... You win ! The internet guy is right again !
You’re waffling on about Boxters now that don’t suffer Bore scoring as a “bore scoring” debate that doesn’t happen and 911’s that don’t suffer IMS bearing failure because..... wait for it..... ! They don’t have an IMS Bearing ? That’s pure genius.... and basically what I said when I offered up the opportunity to drop £120k on a 992. That way you have an argument.
Like I said ! If you Do Not want these problems then buy an alternative ! Just like the ones that you listed, don’t buy a 911 that is known to suffer specific problems and then moan like every day is a new day when the car you bought develops the faults that you knew it would when you handed over the money to buy it, safe in your interpretation of a blame culture centred around every one else’s fault and not It yours.
And just in case you’ve never owned any other car, they all break, blow up and need parts replacing. It’s not just Porsche that make cars that you can’t get your head round, and here’s the worst bit, when the manufacturers warranty expires ! It’s not their fault either despite what you think.
Imagine buying a push bike that’s had 8 owners, you’ve no idea how or where it’s been ridden, when the frame snaps 15 years later and your stood scratching your head looking to blame anybody else except yourself do you expect the manufacturer to accept responsibility ? Despite most of the others that were sold snapping they no doubt warrantied a few to the original purchaser but years later here you are frame in one hand and a print out from an Internet forum in the other where like minded people go to blame anybody except themselves ?
Good luck on 911UK !
You no doubt fit right in !
You’re waffling on about Boxters now that don’t suffer Bore scoring as a “bore scoring” debate that doesn’t happen and 911’s that don’t suffer IMS bearing failure because..... wait for it..... ! They don’t have an IMS Bearing ? That’s pure genius.... and basically what I said when I offered up the opportunity to drop £120k on a 992. That way you have an argument.
Like I said ! If you Do Not want these problems then buy an alternative ! Just like the ones that you listed, don’t buy a 911 that is known to suffer specific problems and then moan like every day is a new day when the car you bought develops the faults that you knew it would when you handed over the money to buy it, safe in your interpretation of a blame culture centred around every one else’s fault and not It yours.
And just in case you’ve never owned any other car, they all break, blow up and need parts replacing. It’s not just Porsche that make cars that you can’t get your head round, and here’s the worst bit, when the manufacturers warranty expires ! It’s not their fault either despite what you think.
Imagine buying a push bike that’s had 8 owners, you’ve no idea how or where it’s been ridden, when the frame snaps 15 years later and your stood scratching your head looking to blame anybody else except yourself do you expect the manufacturer to accept responsibility ? Despite most of the others that were sold snapping they no doubt warrantied a few to the original purchaser but years later here you are frame in one hand and a print out from an Internet forum in the other where like minded people go to blame anybody except themselves ?
Good luck on 911UK !
You no doubt fit right in !
ArchiesDad said:
Ok.... You win ! The internet guy is right again !
You’re waffling on about Boxters now that don’t suffer Bore scoring as a “bore scoring” debate that doesn’t happen and 911’s that don’t suffer IMS bearing failure because..... wait for it..... ! They don’t have an IMS Bearing ? That’s pure genius.... and basically what I said when I offered up the opportunity to drop £120k on a 992. That way you have an argument.
Like I said ! If you Do Not want these problems then buy an alternative ! Just like the ones that you listed, don’t buy a 911 that is known to suffer specific problems and then moan like every day is a new day when the car you bought develops the faults that you knew it would when you handed over the money to buy it, safe in your interpretation of a blame culture centred around every one else’s fault and not It yours.
And just in case you’ve never owned any other car, they all break, blow up and need parts replacing. It’s not just Porsche that make cars that you can’t get your head round, and here’s the worst bit, when the manufacturers warranty expires ! It’s not their fault either despite what you think.
Imagine buying a push bike that’s had 8 owners, you’ve no idea how or where it’s been ridden, when the frame snaps 15 years later and your stood scratching your head looking to blame anybody else except yourself do you expect the manufacturer to accept responsibility ? Despite most of the others that were sold snapping they no doubt warrantied a few to the original purchaser but years later here you are frame in one hand and a print out from an Internet forum in the other where like minded people go to blame anybody except themselves ?
Good luck on 911UK !
You no doubt fit right in !
I have no idea why you've got yourself worked up here - you seem to be having an argument based not just on another thread, but on another forum!You’re waffling on about Boxters now that don’t suffer Bore scoring as a “bore scoring” debate that doesn’t happen and 911’s that don’t suffer IMS bearing failure because..... wait for it..... ! They don’t have an IMS Bearing ? That’s pure genius.... and basically what I said when I offered up the opportunity to drop £120k on a 992. That way you have an argument.
Like I said ! If you Do Not want these problems then buy an alternative ! Just like the ones that you listed, don’t buy a 911 that is known to suffer specific problems and then moan like every day is a new day when the car you bought develops the faults that you knew it would when you handed over the money to buy it, safe in your interpretation of a blame culture centred around every one else’s fault and not It yours.
And just in case you’ve never owned any other car, they all break, blow up and need parts replacing. It’s not just Porsche that make cars that you can’t get your head round, and here’s the worst bit, when the manufacturers warranty expires ! It’s not their fault either despite what you think.
Imagine buying a push bike that’s had 8 owners, you’ve no idea how or where it’s been ridden, when the frame snaps 15 years later and your stood scratching your head looking to blame anybody else except yourself do you expect the manufacturer to accept responsibility ? Despite most of the others that were sold snapping they no doubt warrantied a few to the original purchaser but years later here you are frame in one hand and a print out from an Internet forum in the other where like minded people go to blame anybody except themselves ?
Good luck on 911UK !
You no doubt fit right in !
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