The Used Car Market and Service Histories
Discussion
Hello all,
So, I'm in the market for a used car. I have particular tastes and have narrowed the choice down to an F-Type or a V8 Vantage 4.3 having already scratched the Evora itch.
Now, I am one of those borderline autistic owners who always follows the manufactures specs with regards to servicing; my S2000 for example has been serviced every year for the 11 years I've owned it, and when I bought it, every service was done on time and to spec.
Now, with the Evora it was sold as having a complete service history, which actually translated as having missed a few years. I had nothing but problems with the piece of s
t and managed to get a full refund after some legal stuff (EU Distance Selling Laws are strong).
I've looked at half a dozen F-Types and Vantages, mostly sourced from mobile.de or autoscout. EVERY SINGLE ONE has a patchy service history. One F-Type R for a shade over 50,000 Eur had has 2 services in it's 6 year history according to the service book. One Vantage I saw has not been serviced since 2017 since 'it's only covered 4,000 km'. And then there are a couple which have 'lost the log books'.
Is this the state of affairs nowadays or am I simply unlucky/looking in the wrong places/expecting too much? Is this the case for most cars these days or simply the niche I'm looking in? I will never understand the mentality of someone that drops six figures on a car, but is too tight to spend a few hundred bucks servicing it.
I understand that some cars have a 'low usage' plan, and that's all fine and dandy, but of course when it comes to resale, I'm going to be knocked down because of the missing history...
Thoughts?
So, I'm in the market for a used car. I have particular tastes and have narrowed the choice down to an F-Type or a V8 Vantage 4.3 having already scratched the Evora itch.
Now, I am one of those borderline autistic owners who always follows the manufactures specs with regards to servicing; my S2000 for example has been serviced every year for the 11 years I've owned it, and when I bought it, every service was done on time and to spec.
Now, with the Evora it was sold as having a complete service history, which actually translated as having missed a few years. I had nothing but problems with the piece of s
t and managed to get a full refund after some legal stuff (EU Distance Selling Laws are strong). I've looked at half a dozen F-Types and Vantages, mostly sourced from mobile.de or autoscout. EVERY SINGLE ONE has a patchy service history. One F-Type R for a shade over 50,000 Eur had has 2 services in it's 6 year history according to the service book. One Vantage I saw has not been serviced since 2017 since 'it's only covered 4,000 km'. And then there are a couple which have 'lost the log books'.
Is this the state of affairs nowadays or am I simply unlucky/looking in the wrong places/expecting too much? Is this the case for most cars these days or simply the niche I'm looking in? I will never understand the mentality of someone that drops six figures on a car, but is too tight to spend a few hundred bucks servicing it.
I understand that some cars have a 'low usage' plan, and that's all fine and dandy, but of course when it comes to resale, I'm going to be knocked down because of the missing history...
Thoughts?
You are not expecting too much at all. The cars you mention are up market by my standards, but I would expect a genuine FSH on middle range stuff. The car should be serviced as per recommendations, based not on mileage, but on time. I previously used a high class independent now closed, sadly, and he used the phrase annual service ‘as required’. That is how it should be. Depressing to hear of cheapskates in up market and - more dangerously- really fast cars.
Random thoughts.
Well lots of high end cars that are sold after 3-5 years aren't cherished as you might go on to cherish them. To some they are just a car and honestly what will a mint service history get them extra when they trade it in (and the 90% will trade it in and not sell it to the public). They will have serviced it more likely just when the light comes on saying it needs one, the newer cars often having the car calculate the interval rather than on a strict time/mileage basis.
Some of the best service histories can come from older cars the owner has looked after as they knew they were always keeping it for a long time, so lots of the decent service history ones of the cars you are after are still in the longer term owners ownership! (like someone looking for a S2000 when you weren't selling?)
Personally high miles and long intervals (oil change) gaps on a expensive/powerful/complex car would put me off, longer time gaps with lower miles less so. I will always look into an engine as much as possible you can normal see something down the oil filler cap and the more discolouration down there the worse a service life it's had IMO. Same with coolant expansion tanks (not all are clear though) heavy residue is often found there.
What service items and their possible consequences would worry you specifically? Me it's oil changes that can be a deal breaker or at least a warning sign.
Without specifics it's hard to see how picky you are being, and if your concerns are justified. If you are after a keeper and it's this important to you then I'd say just keep looking til you are satisfied.......I'd always consider private too as you'll then get direct info on how the cars been treated too which can be as if not more important.
Well lots of high end cars that are sold after 3-5 years aren't cherished as you might go on to cherish them. To some they are just a car and honestly what will a mint service history get them extra when they trade it in (and the 90% will trade it in and not sell it to the public). They will have serviced it more likely just when the light comes on saying it needs one, the newer cars often having the car calculate the interval rather than on a strict time/mileage basis.
Some of the best service histories can come from older cars the owner has looked after as they knew they were always keeping it for a long time, so lots of the decent service history ones of the cars you are after are still in the longer term owners ownership! (like someone looking for a S2000 when you weren't selling?)
Personally high miles and long intervals (oil change) gaps on a expensive/powerful/complex car would put me off, longer time gaps with lower miles less so. I will always look into an engine as much as possible you can normal see something down the oil filler cap and the more discolouration down there the worse a service life it's had IMO. Same with coolant expansion tanks (not all are clear though) heavy residue is often found there.
What service items and their possible consequences would worry you specifically? Me it's oil changes that can be a deal breaker or at least a warning sign.
Without specifics it's hard to see how picky you are being, and if your concerns are justified. If you are after a keeper and it's this important to you then I'd say just keep looking til you are satisfied.......I'd always consider private too as you'll then get direct info on how the cars been treated too which can be as if not more important.
I just looked up the F type service plan and it's oil every year or 16K miles and pollen filter every 32K/2 years and Air filter 64K/4 years, engine coolant 10 years! and brake fluid 3 years.
So would you rather have a 2 year old 32K mile serviced to the letter, ie twice.
Or a 2 year old 10K mile one never serviced?
You could just instantly service the 10K mile one and it's (in my eyes immediately ahead of the other)
Ideally this one would have had the oil changed at a year and say 5K miles but it wouldn't disturb me too much if it hadn't.
A 5 year 50K mile car with only two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd pass.
A 5 year old 25K car with two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd consider (and just get it serviced on/after purchase)
So would you rather have a 2 year old 32K mile serviced to the letter, ie twice.
Or a 2 year old 10K mile one never serviced?
You could just instantly service the 10K mile one and it's (in my eyes immediately ahead of the other)
Ideally this one would have had the oil changed at a year and say 5K miles but it wouldn't disturb me too much if it hadn't.
A 5 year 50K mile car with only two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd pass.
A 5 year old 25K car with two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd consider (and just get it serviced on/after purchase)
Cheers for the reply.
Really my main concerns (for example on the Aston that was last serviced in 2017 and done 4000 miles since), are some of the internal corrosion items as mentioned here (http://www.astonspecialist.com/technical-tips-for-aston-martin-engines.html). Not only am I concerned about fluids breaking down (if possible), but simply a case of lack of lubrication and up to four years of problems going undetected.
Also on the used car front, I'm finding a distinct lack of effort going into ads...like, almost nothing about the history or selling points. Lucky to get a couple of lines.
Case in point, from a private seller
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
Really my main concerns (for example on the Aston that was last serviced in 2017 and done 4000 miles since), are some of the internal corrosion items as mentioned here (http://www.astonspecialist.com/technical-tips-for-aston-martin-engines.html). Not only am I concerned about fluids breaking down (if possible), but simply a case of lack of lubrication and up to four years of problems going undetected.
Also on the used car front, I'm finding a distinct lack of effort going into ads...like, almost nothing about the history or selling points. Lucky to get a couple of lines.
Case in point, from a private seller
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
Edited by Mushroom12 on Thursday 8th April 23:19
Scootersp said:
I just looked up the F type service plan and it's oil every year or 16K miles and pollen filter every 32K/2 years and Air filter 64K/4 years, engine coolant 10 years! and brake fluid 3 years.
So would you rather have a 2 year old 32K mile serviced to the letter, ie twice.
Or a 2 year old 10K mile one never serviced?
You could just instantly service the 10K mile one and it's (in my eyes immediately ahead of the other)
Ideally this one would have had the oil changed at a year and say 5K miles but it wouldn't disturb me too much if it hadn't.
A 5 year 50K mile car with only two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd pass.
A 5 year old 25K car with two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd consider (and just get it serviced on/after purchase)
Yea I'm looking older than a couple of years. Vantage 2006-2008, and F-Type up to 2016. I consider oil the lifeblood of a car and an oil change is cheap as chips. Given what these cars go through I'd want some basic care to be taken. So would you rather have a 2 year old 32K mile serviced to the letter, ie twice.
Or a 2 year old 10K mile one never serviced?
You could just instantly service the 10K mile one and it's (in my eyes immediately ahead of the other)
Ideally this one would have had the oil changed at a year and say 5K miles but it wouldn't disturb me too much if it hadn't.
A 5 year 50K mile car with only two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd pass.
A 5 year old 25K car with two oil changes and no brake fluid change I'd consider (and just get it serviced on/after purchase)
I was also really surprised by something similar when I was looking for a car last year.
At the time I was looking at Porsche Cayman 987s. The two year service interval was the order of the day back then which seemed to be a tad optimistic, but I was taken aback by how many had not even managed to achieve that, or had any proof of service. I repeatedly came across cars that in 12 to 15 years had been serviced four or five times. Even when new the two year services were rarely done on time.
At the time I was looking at Porsche Cayman 987s. The two year service interval was the order of the day back then which seemed to be a tad optimistic, but I was taken aback by how many had not even managed to achieve that, or had any proof of service. I repeatedly came across cars that in 12 to 15 years had been serviced four or five times. Even when new the two year services were rarely done on time.
Mushroom12 said:
Yea I'm looking older than a couple of years. Vantage 2006-2008, and F-Type up to 2016. I consider oil the lifeblood of a car and an oil change is cheap as chips. Given what these cars go through I'd want some basic care to be taken.
Absolutely with you on the oil, it's always really hard to take on an older niche car as even the best paperwork or even actual servicing doesn't guarantee anything, however I agree it's a nice to have and does guard against some real shoddy cars and so I say just keep looking until you yourself are satisfied with the provenance?Jeez, I get ours dealer serviced according to the CBS and then change the oil myself in the years in-between and its worth probably half at what you're looking to spend on an F Type.
You do wonder why people don't bother with the servicing but then again, my father in law has a 2008 Mercedes that he has owned for 7 years and he has only just got it serviced because its started to 'play up'. Ive told him to WBAC it as he's just smashed miles on it without getting the oil changed regularly and a 150k mile Merc Diesel with that sort of history is going to be difficult to sell privately but WBAC seem less bothered about a patchy history
You do wonder why people don't bother with the servicing but then again, my father in law has a 2008 Mercedes that he has owned for 7 years and he has only just got it serviced because its started to 'play up'. Ive told him to WBAC it as he's just smashed miles on it without getting the oil changed regularly and a 150k mile Merc Diesel with that sort of history is going to be difficult to sell privately but WBAC seem less bothered about a patchy history
Wagonwheel555 said:
Jeez, I get ours dealer serviced according to the CBS and then change the oil myself in the years in-between and its worth probably half at what you're looking to spend on an F Type.
You do wonder why people don't bother with the servicing but then again, my father in law has a 2008 Mercedes that he has owned for 7 years and he has only just got it serviced because its started to 'play up'. Ive told him to WBAC it as he's just smashed miles on it without getting the oil changed regularly and a 150k mile Merc Diesel with that sort of history is going to be difficult to sell privately but WBAC seem less bothered about a patchy history
You could look at it as, 7 years without a service means a saving of say £1500 minimum if not more, depending on what Mercedes it is, would a 2008 model be worth £1500 more? In a way he’s had the savings, anything more is a bonus, why not just it serviced now and carry on using it? You’d be surprised how many potential buyers of that type of car don’t care too much about a FSH, you get a one sided view on this site, not saying what you FIL did was right, economically it might not be wrong. You do wonder why people don't bother with the servicing but then again, my father in law has a 2008 Mercedes that he has owned for 7 years and he has only just got it serviced because its started to 'play up'. Ive told him to WBAC it as he's just smashed miles on it without getting the oil changed regularly and a 150k mile Merc Diesel with that sort of history is going to be difficult to sell privately but WBAC seem less bothered about a patchy history
It also doesn't help with lots of dealers binning any supporting documentation on the somewhat spurious grounds of data protection.
I've had a car in the past that had a main dealer stamp in the book for a cambelt service but the supporting documentation showed they'd only done a basic oil change.
For older cars the online MoT history paints a good picture on preventative maintenance.
I suspect it is only us nerds who care about service history anyway.
I've had a car in the past that had a main dealer stamp in the book for a cambelt service but the supporting documentation showed they'd only done a basic oil change.
For older cars the online MoT history paints a good picture on preventative maintenance.
I suspect it is only us nerds who care about service history anyway.
You make no mention of your budget for the cars you are looking at, I don't need to know what your budget is but are you looking at the lower end of the price bracket for these type of cars because in my experience that's where the cars with questionable service history tend to sit?
If you were looking at main dealer cars or cars at the top end of the price range then I would expect them to have a fully catalogued service history but you will pay a premium for it.
If you were looking at main dealer cars or cars at the top end of the price range then I would expect them to have a fully catalogued service history but you will pay a premium for it.
Jamescrs said:
You make no mention of your budget for the cars you are looking at, I don't need to know what your budget is but are you looking at the lower end of the price bracket for these type of cars because in my experience that's where the cars with questionable service history tend to sit?
If you were looking at main dealer cars or cars at the top end of the price range then I would expect them to have a fully catalogued service history but you will pay a premium for it.
I've been looking around the 50,000 EUR mark for a V8V, and just under for an F-Type S(380) or R. I don't think I'm digging in the dirt for one here...If you were looking at main dealer cars or cars at the top end of the price range then I would expect them to have a fully catalogued service history but you will pay a premium for it.
Truckosaurus said:
It also doesn't help with lots of dealers binning any supporting documentation on the somewhat spurious grounds of data protection.
I've had a car in the past that had a main dealer stamp in the book for a cambelt service but the supporting documentation showed they'd only done a basic oil change.
For older cars the online MoT history paints a good picture on preventative maintenance.
I suspect it is only us nerds who care about service history anyway.
There is a happy medium ..are looking at a five year old mid range car and not a Ferrari , one missed service is not serious if you then fully service it on purchase. It’s not nerdish to care about FSH but if you are a PH you will make your own judgement dependent on the general feel and ambiance (sorry for Cliche) I've had a car in the past that had a main dealer stamp in the book for a cambelt service but the supporting documentation showed they'd only done a basic oil change.
For older cars the online MoT history paints a good picture on preventative maintenance.
I suspect it is only us nerds who care about service history anyway.
I've just been through this when buying an M4. First one private sale 'yes the running in service has been done, it's just not on the in car computer'....in fairness he did then sort this via BMW's online system, but why had he not done this either when buying or in the 2 years of ownership, it shouldn't take me to point it out. Second one at an independent dealer, I ask for the service history 'oh yes, the first running in service doesn't appear to have been done'. Obviously I didn't buy, it sold a week later. Third car I looked at, at an another independent dealer was bang on and checked out properly so I bought.
I've learned over the years there's no such thing as a one time opportunity on a car, so just hold out until you can buy with no niggles / regrets. If you are asking the question now, then chances are another buyer will when you come to sell...
I've learned over the years there's no such thing as a one time opportunity on a car, so just hold out until you can buy with no niggles / regrets. If you are asking the question now, then chances are another buyer will when you come to sell...
Truckosaurus said:
For older cars the online MoT history paints a good picture on preventative maintenance.
.
I don't think you can take MOT history as gospel though as some do, as ultimately it is just one persons opinion on the day. I've seen MOT histories that would make you think a car is a total wreck when in actual fact, after some digging, you find it was just KwikFit (other fast fit garages are available) that failed/advised it on a load of stuff hoping to get the work. .
Inspectorclueso said:
I've just been through this when buying an M4. First one private sale 'yes the running in service has been done, it's just not on the in car computer'....in fairness he did then sort this via BMW's online system, but why had he not done this either when buying or in the 2 years of ownership, it shouldn't take me to point it out. Second one at an independent dealer, I ask for the service history 'oh yes, the first running in service doesn't appear to have been done'. Obviously I didn't buy, it sold a week later. Third car I looked at, at an another independent dealer was bang on and checked out properly so I bought.
I've learned over the years there's no such thing as a one time opportunity on a car, so just hold out until you can buy with no niggles / regrets. If you are asking the question now, then chances are another buyer will when you come to sell...
Just looked at anothe V8V...on the high end of price, 5 services since 2006, a period with over 25,000km and 4 years between services at some point. I've learned over the years there's no such thing as a one time opportunity on a car, so just hold out until you can buy with no niggles / regrets. If you are asking the question now, then chances are another buyer will when you come to sell...
Sigh
123DWA said:
I don't think you can take MOT history as gospel though as some do, as ultimately it is just one persons opinion on the day. I've seen MOT histories that would make you think a car is a total wreck when in actual fact, after some digging, you find it was just KwikFit (other fast fit garages are available) that failed/advised it on a load of stuff hoping to get the work.
Plenty of MOT testers are fairly relaxed about certain things also. My E46 handbrake was barely working a few years back but as I take it to the same bloke each time, he let it go and told me to get it sorted.I did get it sorted but how many are let go and don’t bother?
I had this when looking for a Range Rover. I enquired on about 8 or 9 of them with the 5.0 SC engine (all about 3 or4 years old) and not one had a full service history. Most had gaps of 20-30k miles on them between services which is particularly bad on those engines (note same engine in F-Type).
I eventually found one that had been serviced on time but it took ages.
Is it something to do with leased cars? People don't bother to service them if they know they're not keeping them?
I eventually found one that had been serviced on time but it took ages.
Is it something to do with leased cars? People don't bother to service them if they know they're not keeping them?
130iTrack said:
I had this when looking for a Range Rover. I enquired on about 8 or 9 of them with the 5.0 SC engine (all about 3 or4 years old) and not one had a full service history. Most had gaps of 20-30k miles on them between services which is particularly bad on those engines (note same engine in F-Type).
I eventually found one that had been serviced on time but it took ages.
Is it something to do with leased cars? People don't bother to service them if they know they're not keeping them?
No idea, but the thought of paying 55,000 Euros on a V8V that's see 25 miles and 4 years between services at one point, then around 250km over 4 years without a service (think internal corrosion) really doesn't make sense to me. I eventually found one that had been serviced on time but it took ages.
Is it something to do with leased cars? People don't bother to service them if they know they're not keeping them?
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff