Crime prevention
Discussion
I had been watching the "police interceptors" type programs on TV and in a few of the episodes i had noticed the police lying in wait for people to return to their cars after being reported for consuming alcohol. The police then watch them get in the car and drive off, the blue lights go on and the driver is then breathalysed and arrested.
This led me to think that the police primary objective is to prevent crime as stated in the police oath
“I do solemnly and sincerely
declare and affirm that I will well
and truly serve the Queen in the
office of constable, with fairness,
integrity, diligence and
impartiality, upholding
fundamental human rights and
according equal respect to all
people; and that I will, to the
best of my power, cause the
peace to be kept and preserved
and PREVENT ALL OFFENCES against
people and property; and that
while I continue to hold the said
office I will to the best of my skill
and knowledge discharge all the
duties thereof faithfully
according to law.”
Surely then, if the police are aware that an offence is likely to take place (based on the information that led them to be there in the first place) then they should PREVENT the offence from taking place (as stated in the oath) by making their presence know, rather than knowingly allowing the driver to drive off. Arguably this could be construed as being misconduct in public office.
The implications of letting a driver they suspect to be over the limit drive off could be catastrophic.
I am in no way condoning drink driving, i am however questioning the tactics of the police when acting covertly to catch rather than prevent.
This led me to think that the police primary objective is to prevent crime as stated in the police oath
“I do solemnly and sincerely
declare and affirm that I will well
and truly serve the Queen in the
office of constable, with fairness,
integrity, diligence and
impartiality, upholding
fundamental human rights and
according equal respect to all
people; and that I will, to the
best of my power, cause the
peace to be kept and preserved
and PREVENT ALL OFFENCES against
people and property; and that
while I continue to hold the said
office I will to the best of my skill
and knowledge discharge all the
duties thereof faithfully
according to law.”
Surely then, if the police are aware that an offence is likely to take place (based on the information that led them to be there in the first place) then they should PREVENT the offence from taking place (as stated in the oath) by making their presence know, rather than knowingly allowing the driver to drive off. Arguably this could be construed as being misconduct in public office.
The implications of letting a driver they suspect to be over the limit drive off could be catastrophic.
I am in no way condoning drink driving, i am however questioning the tactics of the police when acting covertly to catch rather than prevent.
So a guy walks up to your car, takes his keys out of his pocket and is going to run them down the side of your car...do you want the police to stop him doing it or wait for it to happen?
A guy is walking behind your mum late at night in a bad part of town, do you want to wait for her to be attacked or do you want the police to make their presence known?
A guy is walking behind your mum late at night in a bad part of town, do you want to wait for her to be attacked or do you want the police to make their presence known?
This requires knowledge of what is going to happen, when and where...why not allow them to instigate the crime and then arrest. If you prevent the crime there is nothing to charge the person with so they're free to try again.
We live in a free society, they cant simply arrest people because there is a chance they're going to do something unless the preparation for it is itself illegal.
how do you prevent crime? catch the criminal in the act and take him off the streets so he cant do it again or make the risks not worth the reward.
We live in a free society, they cant simply arrest people because there is a chance they're going to do something unless the preparation for it is itself illegal.
how do you prevent crime? catch the criminal in the act and take him off the streets so he cant do it again or make the risks not worth the reward.
Go on, I’ll bite.
Drink driving is often habitual. If the cops park in plain sight it may prevent the drink driver from committing an offence at that time. People don’t tend to learn from lucky escapes though.
If the cops wait and stop the driver then it’ll lead to a minimum 12 month disqualification, which will prevent the offence over a longer period...the caveat being that they should stop them ASAP on that journey.
Drink driving is often habitual. If the cops park in plain sight it may prevent the drink driver from committing an offence at that time. People don’t tend to learn from lucky escapes though.
If the cops wait and stop the driver then it’ll lead to a minimum 12 month disqualification, which will prevent the offence over a longer period...the caveat being that they should stop them ASAP on that journey.
How do you know that the guy who took his keys out of his pocket next to your car isn't simply going to unlock his car parked a couple of cars up, or fish out his phone below the keys and other stuff in his pocket? How do you know the man behind my mother isn't just walking faster and will go past her without even noticing she's even there? You can't arrest, prosecute, sentence or do anything else to someone on the off chance that they may commit a crime unless you have evidence. A key in your hand next to a car isn't enough evidence that you're about to scratch that car's paint, and neither is walking behind a woman evidence that you're about to attack her.
Hunter T said:
You think a ban stops a drink driver from getting behind the wheel?
This is even more bizarre. You think a ban doesn't stop drink drivers, so there's no point banning them. What exactly do you suggest happens then? You currently have a man who's had a drink outside a car. He hasn't got in it, he hasn't tried to drive it so you can't charge him with drink driving and ban him, which you think wouldn't work anyway. What do you suggest happens next? Police arrest the man and chuck him in jail? He's banned from driving? Remember he hasn't even got inside the car or tried to drive yet. What outcome are you aiming for? Hunter T said:
Yes but if the police make their presence known..the crime is prevented..which is the primary duty of the police..
What crime?! The crime of walking past? Getting into his own car? Taking his phone and other belongings out of his pockets? On how many occasions does someone take a set of keys outside someone else's car? Millions and millions of times a day in work and supermarket car parks as well as the road since the vast majority of people open their car before they get near, or lock them up from a distance. On how many occasions does a car get scratched on purpose by one of those people? Hardly any. How many police officers are there to observe every single person in the country taking their keys out of their pocket every time? Square root of none, and besides, we don't live in some sort of an Orwellian state where the police constantly makes its presence known in case somebody commits a crime. QuickQuack said:
What crime?! The crime of walking past? Getting into his own car? Taking his phone and other belongings out of his pockets? On how many occasions does someone take a set of keys outside someone else's car? Millions and millions of times a day in work and supermarket car parks as well as the road since the vast majority of people open their car before they get near, or lock them up from a distance. On how many occasions does a car get scratched on purpose by one of those people? Hardly any. How many police officers are there to observe every single person in the country taking their keys out of their pocket every time? Square root of none, and besides, we don't live in some sort of an Orwellian state where the police constantly makes its presence known in case somebody commits a crime.
That is the whole point...no crime is committed because the police presence is known, the presence of police has had the guy make a better choice. no arrests have to be made. THE POLICE HAVE PREVENTED A CRIME...whats hard to understand about that?Hunter T said:
That is the whole point...no crime is committed because the police presence is known, the presence of police has had the guy make a better choice. no arrests have to be made. THE POLICE HAVE PREVENTED A CRIME...whats hard to understand about that?
The police haven't PREVENTED A CRIME, they've just delayed it by 24hrs.Although I do agree that if there was a copper outside every single pub, restaurant, bar, night club, hotel, etc. every single night, then your system might work.
In your very first example, the police would've prevented a single episode of drink driving, or possibly only delayed it till they went round the corner. Even if he hadn't driven on this occasion, he would have on the next one. The way they handled it, they've definitely taken the driver off the road for quite some time and have prevented multiple further episodes of drink driving. That's a much more successful prevention tactic than delaying or preventing a single episode.
Your other examples don't make sense because it sounds like you want to have the police on the street every 25 metres to show "police presence" to deter crime. As a matter of interest, how's the police supposed to make their presence known? Permanently have their blues on? Turn their blues on every time someone walks out of a pub and goes to their car? Do they have to have a blast of the siren as well? Or will they just walk up and say "wot's going on 'ere then?" with their hands behind their back and batons at the ready?
Your other examples don't make sense because it sounds like you want to have the police on the street every 25 metres to show "police presence" to deter crime. As a matter of interest, how's the police supposed to make their presence known? Permanently have their blues on? Turn their blues on every time someone walks out of a pub and goes to their car? Do they have to have a blast of the siren as well? Or will they just walk up and say "wot's going on 'ere then?" with their hands behind their back and batons at the ready?
Cat said:
Hunter T said:
We don't do with any other crime.
Of course it's done with other crimes. One of the most famous examples would be the attempted theft of the millennium diamonds.Cat
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff