Why don’t we have nice trains? *avantiwestcoast*
Discussion
I like all machines and I find myself looking at plane and train videos often. I’ve travelled by train through Germany and France, the trains were spotless, spacious and quiet. They were also new or nearly new. My fathers travelled the world and he won’t stop going on about the trains especially in Far East Asia, Japan, Kuala Lumpur etc
I’m currently on a train from Euston to Glasgow and I just cannot get over how old, filthy and cramped this train is, creaks and rattles, the chairs, everything. I feel like I’m on a North Korean train in 1992. I can’t even take a picture of some of the nice countryside we have coz the windows are stained with s
te.
The worst part is, one way trip costs £79. I didn’t think about the price being expensive until I got on the train. I had no idea what a train journey this far should cost but I had an idea of what it should be like! I had a look at first class and they have bigger seats but that’s about it.
Why don’t we have nice trains, why do we spend money on wars, aircraft carriers and submarines when we can spend it on our roads and trains
I’m currently on a train from Euston to Glasgow and I just cannot get over how old, filthy and cramped this train is, creaks and rattles, the chairs, everything. I feel like I’m on a North Korean train in 1992. I can’t even take a picture of some of the nice countryside we have coz the windows are stained with s
te.The worst part is, one way trip costs £79. I didn’t think about the price being expensive until I got on the train. I had no idea what a train journey this far should cost but I had an idea of what it should be like! I had a look at first class and they have bigger seats but that’s about it.
Why don’t we have nice trains, why do we spend money on wars, aircraft carriers and submarines when we can spend it on our roads and trains
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
£79 is relatively cheap for a journey of that distance. The car you're going to pick up will probably use that much just in unleaded on the way back.
Assuming it will do 300 miles to a tank, I’ll need more! I’m not complaining about the price itself, I’d rather pay more but be in a nice new clean train or at least a well kept train. I’m not a busy body who loves to moan (looks that way
) however when I see the trains in France, Germany etc, I wonder why we can’t have the same. If all of our neighbor's had ste trains, I’d assume it’s the norm but they don’t, and even the trains I use to get into London (southwest trains) have been since I moved into the area in 2002
France has a few standards of trains the local trains (I forget the names) I found to be quite unpleasant, dirty, graffitied and the seats are plastic. The intercity however is a very nice experience.
As the network is privatised over here I imagine your experience will vary from operator to operator however I find southern trains the worst with often scratched up windows you can’t look out of.
As the network is privatised over here I imagine your experience will vary from operator to operator however I find southern trains the worst with often scratched up windows you can’t look out of.
Last time I took a train to Scotland it was to Edinburgh on a virgin train from one of the London stations, I thought it was pretty decent inside tbh.
I quite like sitting there with the big windows etc watching the world go by, I’d certainly rather do that than drive the same journey.
I quite like sitting there with the big windows etc watching the world go by, I’d certainly rather do that than drive the same journey.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
£79 is relatively cheap for a journey of that distance. The car you're going to pick up will probably use that much just in unleaded on the way back.
Is it really cheap though? 2 years back I flew one way from Calgary to Gatwick for sub £200. It struck me at the time as really cheap for the distance (around 4400 miles) in comparison to the cost of UK trains. Fore Left said:
Probably a couple years or more ago now but the last time I went from Paddington to Cardiff it was on a brand new train. It even had that new train smell 
After they saved a few £Billion on not fully electrifying the South Wales Mainline as promised, they had to buy new hybrid mode trains. Saved some money doing it.Still see the odd Pacer in South Wales.
The few times I've travelled on Pendalinos even when they were newer, I've never been impressed with the interiors. Its like the Voyagers as well, it kinda feels you're in a cramped aircraft than a train. The new Azumas on the East Coast whilst I'm not a fan of travelling on, at least they're light and airy.
DaveyBoyWonder said:
The few times I've travelled on Pendalinos even when they were newer, I've never been impressed with the interiors. Its like the Voyagers as well, it kinda feels you're in a cramped aircraft than a train. The new Azumas on the East Coast whilst I'm not a fan of travelling on, at least they're light and airy.
Exactly. I'm not huge, I'm distinctly average sized. I find I need a shoehorn to get into a Pendolino seat. And if some bat fastard decides to sit next to me, I'm going to be squashed. First class is much better, and I'll frequently pay to upgrade the company-purchased standard ticket to first just for some comfort.Chestrockwell said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
£79 is relatively cheap for a journey of that distance. The car you're going to pick up will probably use that much just in unleaded on the way back.
Assuming it will do 300 miles to a tank, I’ll need more! I’m not complaining about the price itself, I’d rather pay more but be in a nice new clean train or at least a well kept train. I’m not a busy body who loves to moan (looks that way
) however when I see the trains in France, Germany etc, I wonder why we can’t have the same. If all of our neighbor's had ste trains, I’d assume it’s the norm but they don’t, and even the trains I use to get into London (southwest trains) have been since I moved into the area in 2002Like pretty much all comparisons (not just trains, but other infrastructure, services etc.) between countries, the answer to "why does [x] have nicer and better trains than the UK?" is virtually always "because they spend much more money on them than we do."
It doesn't matter whether it's a nationalised system, a private operator(s) under a government contract system, a franchise system or a fully privatised system - if you drill down into it the system either receives more money from the government coffers (for the nationalised etc. systems) or a greater proportion of GDP in investment and profit (for the privatised systems) than the equivalent figures for the British system.
Even before the pandemic, the rail system received between two and four times the amount of subsidy from central government than it did in the days of British Rail. Privatisation (in the form that it was done) has categorically not saved the Treasury money.
What the really good rail systems - whatever their form - have enjoyed is constancy and (as a result) the ability to plan for the long term. Which is what the British rail system hasn't had since WW1.
It doesn't matter whether it's a nationalised system, a private operator(s) under a government contract system, a franchise system or a fully privatised system - if you drill down into it the system either receives more money from the government coffers (for the nationalised etc. systems) or a greater proportion of GDP in investment and profit (for the privatised systems) than the equivalent figures for the British system.
Even before the pandemic, the rail system received between two and four times the amount of subsidy from central government than it did in the days of British Rail. Privatisation (in the form that it was done) has categorically not saved the Treasury money.
What the really good rail systems - whatever their form - have enjoyed is constancy and (as a result) the ability to plan for the long term. Which is what the British rail system hasn't had since WW1.
I used to travel on the WCML regularly pre-lockdown and, to be honest, I found the Virgin Pendolinos fine. If you got to the platform early you could normally get a table seat in either C or U. I'm fairly big but never had any problems size-wise, I found the trains reasonably clean.
First class was a massive rip off though with the only benefit being that the seats are a bit wider.
First class was a massive rip off though with the only benefit being that the seats are a bit wider.
Evanivitch said:
Fore Left said:
Probably a couple years or more ago now but the last time I went from Paddington to Cardiff it was on a brand new train. It even had that new train smell
After they saved a few £Billion on not fully electrifying the South Wales Mainline as promised, they had to buy new hybrid mode trains. Saved some money doing it.
Not sure what the schedule is now but until Covid there was one train – I think the 19.12 or something like that from Paddington which was – IIRC – non-stop to Bristol in 1hr 30 mins or thereabouts. As opposed to about 3 hours in a car, in general.Not as comfy as the original HSTs, more comfy than the refurbs.
Yertis said:
I was sceptical but having used the new GWR trains a couple of times they're fast and I now prefer them to driving to/from London Not sure what the schedule is now but until Covid there was one train – I think the 19.12 or something like that from Paddington which was – IIRC – non-stop to Bristol in 1hr 30 mins or thereabouts. As opposed to about 3 hours in a car, in general.
Not as comfy as the original HSTs, more comfy than the refurbs.
I'm further down the line, past Cardiff. The expectation is that they'll never upgrade the line past Cardiff, so eventually that is where all Paddington services will terminate. Not sure what the schedule is now but until Covid there was one train – I think the 19.12 or something like that from Paddington which was – IIRC – non-stop to Bristol in 1hr 30 mins or thereabouts. As opposed to about 3 hours in a car, in general.Not as comfy as the original HSTs, more comfy than the refurbs.
In the meantime, to save 15 minutes, they intend to bypass Swansea central with a new parkway station North of the M4, and bypass Neath. It all screams of the Cardiff Bay club trying to keep Carmarthen happy whilst chinning-off everyone else in-between (even more so as Cardiff valley lines will also be electrified, except for Maesteg).
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