‘ Vote of no Confidence’
‘ Vote of no Confidence’
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Simpo Two

89,479 posts

282 months

Monday 12th April 2021
quotequote all
Business forum probably.

ETA Aha bingo!

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 12th April 21:04

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
Business forum probably.

ETA Aha bingo!

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 12th April 21:04
Hopefully some replies soon

CubanPete

3,675 posts

205 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
Is the management company independent of the flat owners and profit making are the directors paid? Who owns the freehold?

When I owned a flat the flat owners owned the management company and we were all directors. There was an amount of work (though not huge) and all the management fees were put back into the building. We also bought out the freehold.

The neighbouring new build flats were all managed externally by a profit making company... I believe you have the right to self manage. It is slightly more work, but considerably more effective.

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
CubanPete said:
Is the management company independent of the flat owners and profit making are the directors paid? Who owns the freehold?

When I owned a flat the flat owners owned the management company and we were all directors. There was an amount of work (though not huge) and all the management fees were put back into the building. We also bought out the freehold.

The neighbouring new build flats were all managed externally by a profit making company... I believe you have the right to self manage. It is slightly more work, but considerably more effective.
Tks for the reply Pete.

Yes the management company are an independent company that were appointed by the directors after the last management company threw the towel in and so they are paid a fee by the residents that come out of the company funds from annual fees.

All owners have a share of freehold and the current lease is close to 1000 years.

A management company was appointed a few years back after the building was being miss managed by a resident that was being paid by the other residents.
Since then that managing agent left and a new managing agent was appointed without consultation by the current team of directors at additional costs.

The issue isn’t the managing agent it’s the current team of directors.

Si1295

389 posts

158 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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Who owns the management company, split between the flat owners or a separate entity? If it’s the latter then bin the company off, if it’s the former then you need to call an EGM for which you’ll need a majority of the voting share (either 60% or 75%, I can’t remember which) and vote all of the directors off. You’ll find the process required in the articles of association.

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
Si1295 said:
Who owns the management company, split between the flat owners or a separate entity? If it’s the latter then bin the company off, if it’s the former then you need to call an EGM for which you’ll need a majority of the voting share (either 60% or 75%, I can’t remember which) and vote all of the directors off. You’ll find the process required in the articles of association.
The management company is an independent firm appointed by the residents . They are NOT owned by the residents.

We don't want to bin the MA off as we need them to do all the work pertaining to annual duties and 75% of the flats are owned by 2nd home owners.

We think once a meeting is called its likely the current Directors will bail as they won't want to go through contest

Si1295

389 posts

158 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
GT3Manthey said:
The management company is an independent firm appointed by the residents . They are NOT owned by the residents.

We don't want to bin the MA off as we need them to do all the work pertaining to annual duties and 75% of the flats are owned by 2nd home owners.

We think once a meeting is called its likely the current Directors will bail as they won't want to go through contest
I assume the directors are employees of the management company? A letter, signed by all/vast majority of residents, to the management company should be enough

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
Si1295 said:
I assume the directors are employees of the management company? A letter, signed by all/vast majority of residents, to the management company should be enough
Sadly not no.

The Directors are volunteers that are also flat owners.

Currently they virtually refuse to communicate with residents and of late one has turned aggressive to one of the residents.
Obviously this is unacceptable so there is a gathering band of owners that want to look at a way of dismissing one of them.

Its a tricky situation so they are wondering if there is a way in which the motion can be brought anonymously for protection and a letter send to each resident asking them to vote, again in confidence

blindspot

344 posts

160 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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Have you checked the articles of association? That'll give you procedures for appointing & removing directors etc.

C350Akra

13,452 posts

297 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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I am confused. You have 2 residents that are 'directors'. Directors of what? You also have a company acting as the management company for the flats? How are the two connected?

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
C350Akra said:
I am confused. You have 2 residents that are 'directors'. Directors of what? You also have a company acting as the management company for the flats? How are the two connected?
Ok so the building is a limited company that's how its set up. There are two owners that act as the Directors. The appointed MA are NOT owned by the Building they are paid for by the fees that the Building generates.

We are wondering of we can contact the MA and ask them to act in a confidential fashion and write to all other owners ( again guaranteeing confidentiality) asking them to vote on the problematic Director.

My initial thoughts are that there has to be an already majority that want the change although it might be easier, and less dangerous for all concerned, for the MA to issue a letter to everyone bar the problematic Director.

Hope that's clearer

Si1295

389 posts

158 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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In that case see my earlier paragraph ref: EGM and who owns the shares, articles of association etc...

Ean218

2,023 posts

267 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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I think you may have this rather about face.

The managment company is appointed to do its thing by the limited company owned by the flat owners.

The flat owners appoint the Directors of their limited company.

It is down to the flat owners to fire and replace the current directors by whatever means are laid down in the articles etc. A vote of no confidence is a red herring, just do what the articles tell you to do.

The relationship between the managment company and the flats' company would not change if the directors of the flats' company changed, unless the new directors wanted it to, so there is no need to consult or involve them at all.

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
quotequote all
Ean218 said:
I think you may have this rather about face.

The managment company is appointed to do its thing by the limited company owned by the flat owners.

The flat owners appoint the Directors of their limited company.

It is down to the flat owners to fire and replace the current directors by whatever means are laid down in the articles etc. A vote of no confidence is a red herring, just do what the articles tell you to do.

The relationship between the managment company and the flats' company would not change if the directors of the flats' company changed, unless the new directors wanted it to, so there is no need to consult or involve them at all.
Sure all understood.

So then we need as you say to consult the articles then great .

Many tks

MOMACC

523 posts

54 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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For free legal advice see if any insurance policy you buy has legal expenses included.

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Wednesday 14th April 2021
quotequote all
Tks all .

Got hold of a copy of the articles and sadly they won’t help.

No provisions for the removal of directors or any systems in place.

Quite bizarrely they even allow the directors to borrow against the company with loans etc.

Back to the drawing board .

Tks for all the replies

C350Akra

13,452 posts

297 months

Wednesday 14th April 2021
quotequote all
GT3Manthey said:
Tks all .

Got hold of a copy of the articles and sadly they won’t help.

No provisions for the removal of directors or any systems in place.

Quite bizarrely they even allow the directors to borrow against the company with loans etc.

Back to the drawing board .

Tks for all the replies
Makes it easier in a way. Any company is required to call a general meeting upon request of at least 5% of shareholders with voting rights. Hold a meeting with the single agenda item of removing existing directors and appointing new ones.

Edited to add, it is under section 303 of the Companies Act 2006.

GT3Manthey

Original Poster:

4,741 posts

66 months

Wednesday 14th April 2021
quotequote all
C350Akra said:
Makes it easier in a way. Any company is required to call a general meeting upon request of at least 5% of shareholders with voting rights. Hold a meeting with the single agenda item of removing existing directors and appointing new ones.

Edited to add, it is under section 303 of the Companies Act 2006.
Many tks.

Didn't actually know this makes it very interesting

C350Akra

13,452 posts

297 months

Wednesday 14th April 2021
quotequote all
No worries. Provided you have a quorum (as per the articles, or 5 members in your case if the articles are silent) you can hold the general meeting even if existing directors are not present. You can call the meeting yourself under section 249F but you must send the notice of meeting to all shareholders.

randlemarcus

13,629 posts

248 months

Wednesday 14th April 2021
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CCTV etc , you really should have signs up, or you risk breaching some ICO rules.

Roughly speaking, how many in each of the following camps?
1) Will support removal
2) Will fight removal
3) Don't give a damn.