How to revive centre-left politics

[Johnnytheboy]

Following a long discussion with my father on this topic, sparked by the fact that Labour seem likely to lose the Hartlepool by-election.

If you were newly elected leader of a centre left party, eg Labour or the Lib Dems, how would you revive its electoral fortunes?

I am very keen to hear the views of the more thoughtful avowedly left wing posters that have probably given this a great deal thought, eg biggbn or 2xChevrons.

I'd be very happy if posters whose kneejerk response is to tell me I'm wrong would have a flick through some of the results in this google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=long+decline+centr...

Apparently Europe-wide centre left party decline even has a name: Pasokification. Who knew?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasokification

So I've learned something already.

I'm specifically NOT interested in the relative merits of Boris Johnson or Kier Starmer, or other day-to-day politics, or anything to do with sodding Covid. There are plenty of other threads for that.

I simply want to know how you make mainstream left-wing ideology appealing enough to voters for it to win elections.

[kiethton]

Think there is an issue but it's not necessarily the people/parties but the ideology, the whole country has shifted to the right after realising the huge issues left-leaving governments have caused over the years.

[Stick Legs]

I think the Centre Left has definitely got a future in UK Government.

The most successful Labour party model of all time was New Labour. Firmly Centrist.

The next most successful Labour Prime Minister was Harold Wilson, also much closer to the centre.

If anyone is serious about reviving Centre Left politics in this country they must revive the strengths of New Labour without repeating the mistakes.

Blair is not a four letter word, and should not haunt a party the way it seems to in Labour.

[mybrainhurts]

Left? Successful? Really?

Every single time it gets power, it screws up the country for everybody.

[IroningMan]

Johnnytheboy said:

Following a long discussion with my father on this topic, sparked by the fact that Labour seem likely to lose the Hartlepool by-election.

If you were newly elected leader of a centre left party, eg Labour or the Lib Dems, how would you revive its electoral fortunes?

I am very keen to hear the views of the more thoughtful avowedly left wing posters that have probably given this a great deal thought, eg biggbn or 2xChevrons.

I'd be very happy if posters whose kneejerk response is to tell me I'm wrong would have a flick through some of the results in this google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=long+decline+centr...

Apparently Europe-wide centre left party decline even has a name: Pasokification. Who knew?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasokification

So I've learned something already.

I'm specifically NOT interested in the relative merits of Boris Johnson or Kier Starmer, or other day-to-day politics, or anything to do with sodding Covid. There are plenty of other threads for that.

I simply want to know how you make mainstream left-wing ideology appealing enough to voters for it to win elections.

'Mainstream left-wing' and 'Centre-left' are very different things.

[JagLover]

Having actual left wing policies in their effect might be a start.

The globalist agenda entrenches, and expands, disparities in wealth and the parties of the centre-left have embraced it whole heartedly.

[Johnnytheboy]

Stick Legs said:

The most successful Labour party model of all time was New Labour. Firmly Centrist.

The next most successful Labour Prime Minister was Harold Wilson, also much closer to the centre.

If anyone is serious about reviving Centre Left politics in this country they must revive the strengths of New Labour without repeating the mistakes.

Blair is not a four letter word, and should not haunt a party the way it seems to in Labour.

I thought this would come up.

It seems that in order to make left wing politics election-winning nowadays you have to position yourself as far away from left wing politics as possible. This comment aimed at Blair not Wilson, obviously.

Though some of the links I posted suggest that even a party like New Labour ideologically would struggle to win since 2010.

So I return to my original point: is there a way to make a centre left party electable other than moving it so far right it isn't centre left any more?

I have a few vague ideas, but I want to let the thread run for a bit. It seems to me the key is to make people that don't vote for you now do so, if that isn't stating the bleeding obvious.

[IroningMan]

mybrainhurts said:

Left? Successful? Really?

Every single time it gets power, it screws up the country for everybody.

If you want to live in a one-party state I believe there are options available.

[Johnnytheboy]

IroningMan said:

'Mainstream left-wing' and 'Centre-left' are very different things.

Go on... I'm all ears!

And how would you make either a vote winner?

[Johnnytheboy]

IroningMan said:

If you want to live in a one-party state I believe there are options available.

I'm a life long Tory voter and I don't want this, hence my interest in the topic!

[valiant]

mybrainhurts said:

Left? Successful? Really?

Won three elections on the bounce. That was pretty successful at the time.

[blackrabbit]

Only way for the left to win is to drop the momentum like hard left policies.

Concentrate on the wants of normal working class people. Better standard of living, safer environment and better schools/healthcare.

Realise not all Labour voters are pro immigration.

Stop prioritising issues like LBGT, preferential treatment for minorities and general wokeness which actively piss's off half of your previous base.

[2xChevrons]

Johnnytheboy said:

Following a long discussion with my father on this topic, sparked by the fact that Labour seem likely to lose the Hartlepool by-election.

If you were newly elected leader of a centre left party, eg Labour or the Lib Dems, how would you revive its electoral fortunes?

I am very keen to hear the views of the more thoughtful avowedly left wing posters that have probably given this a great deal thought, eg biggbn or 2xChevrons.

I'm flattered to be called upon by name.

A worthy answer will require some thought and time to prepare, so it may be a while before I can get back to you. But I will try and do so.

In the interim I'll start by saying that I think we may have different definitions of 'centre left'. I would consider New Labour/Blairism centre left (if I'm being generous) and I don't particularly want to revive that.

If you mean 'middle of the left part of the political spectrum' - what I would call social democracy, then I'm all about that. In Labour terms that encompasses (in increasing degrees of radicalism) Wilson, Attlee and Corbyn. Beyond that you get into stuff like democratic socialism (which would be nice if it ever existed but isn't remotely acheivable in the foreseeable reality, certainly not to base a political party on in the here and now on) and various sorts of communism, which may be a nice utopia to read about in a pamphlet as a 'perfect spheres in an absolute vacuum' sense of what left-wing politics might be if taken to the ultimate extent but, IMO, shouldn't ever be attempted or advocated for.

So how would I revive (more accurately, create virtually from scratch) social democratic politics? It would need to be as big a project as creating the Labour Party and bringing it to power was the first time around (it took 45 years from the foundation of the Labour Representation Committee to the election of the first majority Labour government). The world has changed so much, and left-wing politics has sunk to such a nadir, that the notion that it's just a case of changing the Labour leader and waiting for one or two election cycles is entirely the wrong way to go about it. The (big L)abour Party and the (small l)abour movement need to - effectively - be dissolved and started from scratch to reconnect with the people it should be representing in the here and now.

Both are still ghosts of the movement that started in the 1900s, in the old industrial and imperial economy in a world and a society that has changed almost beyond recognition. What the neoliberal reforms of the 1980s started the globalisation and technological revolutions of the 2000s finished. The old social, demographic and political norms of that time are in the final stages of breaking up, as Brexit and the 2019 election aptly demonstrated. We're now in a world where 50-something blokes from Stoke-on-Trent who left school at 16 can have a BTL property portfolio and drive a BMW and still consider themselves 'working class' and 20-somethings in London with 1st class degrees from Russell Group unis can be working double shifts at Starbucks and feel consigned to renting a shoebox all their adult lives and still consider themselves 'middle class'.

Labour - as a movement - needs to decide who it's actually for, and I'd say that the graduate barrista is actually more in need of a left-wing political movement than the ex-toolmaker landlord. But that requires reworking the entire movement from the ground up for this new world, against a lot of internal vested interests and external opposition. It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be nice, it wouldn't be simple and it certainly wouldn't be quick.

And that was the short answer!

Edit: I don't have the time to keep coming back to this thread at the moment, so forgive this being something of a drive-by:

blackrabbit said:

Only way for the left to win is to drop the momentum like hard left policies.

Concentrate on the wants of normal working class people. Better standard of living, safer environment and better schools/healthcare.

Realise not all Labour voters are pro immigration.

Stop prioritising issues like LBGT, preferential treatment for minorities and general wokeness which actively piss's off half of your previous base.

Labour has never prioritised "LBGT, preferential treatment for minorities and general wokeness". The 2017 and 2019 manifestos barely mentioned any of that stuff. Both were full of stuff about "Better standard of living, safer environment and better schools/healthcare." And more stuff that we're continually told that 'real people' actuall care about - public transport, job security, working conditions, housing costs, childcare provision, preventing job off-shoring, plans to protect and revive local high streets, pubs and other community necessities, rebalancing the economy and the country away from London and the south east. Etc. etc.

I'll grant that there was a big problem of perception, but that's a separate issue to the actual content that was on offer.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Friday 16th April 13:57

[ZedLeg]

blackrabbit said:

Only way for the left to win is to drop the momentum like hard left policies.

Concentrate on the wants of normal working class people. Better standard of living, safer environment and better schools/healthcare.

Realise not all Labour voters are pro immigration.

Stop prioritising issues like LBGT, preferential treatment for minorities and general wokeness which actively piss's off half of your previous base.

So the only way for the left to be successful is to stop being so left wing?

[JagLover]

ZedLeg said:

blackrabbit said:

Only way for the left to win is to drop the momentum like hard left policies.

Concentrate on the wants of normal working class people. Better standard of living, safer environment and better schools/healthcare.

Realise not all Labour voters are pro immigration.

Stop prioritising issues like LBGT, preferential treatment for minorities and general wokeness which actively piss's off half of your previous base.

So the only way for the left to be successful is to stop being so left wing?

Left wing used to mean raising the standard of living for the working class, a fair days pay for a fair day's work.

Now it is about student politics issues while the needs of ordinary folk are ignored.

[98elise]

Johnnytheboy said:

Following a long discussion with my father on this topic, sparked by the fact that Labour seem likely to lose the Hartlepool by-election.

If you were newly elected leader of a centre left party, eg Labour or the Lib Dems, how would you revive its electoral fortunes?

I am very keen to hear the views of the more thoughtful avowedly left wing posters that have probably given this a great deal thought, eg biggbn or 2xChevrons.

I'd be very happy if posters whose kneejerk response is to tell me I'm wrong would have a flick through some of the results in this google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=long+decline+centr...

Apparently Europe-wide centre left party decline even has a name: Pasokification. Who knew?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasokification

So I've learned something already.

I'm specifically NOT interested in the relative merits of Boris Johnson or Kier Starmer, or other day-to-day politics, or anything to do with sodding Covid. There are plenty of other threads for that.

I simply want to know how you make mainstream left-wing ideology appealing enough to voters for it to win elections.

Labour are not center left. Asset grabs and nationalisation without compensation puts you on the far left.

[anonymous-user]

2XChevrons beat me to the point I was going to make, but essentially:

Fewer and fewer people these days want to think of themselves as ‘in need’ of a left leaning party which promotes more socialist elements. It is an admission of failure. It is an admission that you cannot look after yourself and require additional help from the state and from society.

People are growing up under the idea of ‘everyone is a winner’, and everyone should end up successful and showing off their winnings in life. Categorising yourself as ‘working class’ or somehow in need of assistance or help in some form, is a dirty word.

Almost everyone wants to think of themselves as doing well. They want to be middle class. They want other people to know they are doing well and are middle class.

We now have people who do need help, actively voting against the parties that will help them the most, simply because they don’t want to admit they are working class, or need government help.

Or something.

[ZedLeg]

JagLover said:

ZedLeg said:

blackrabbit said:

Only way for the left to win is to drop the momentum like hard left policies.

Concentrate on the wants of normal working class people. Better standard of living, safer environment and better schools/healthcare.

Realise not all Labour voters are pro immigration.

Stop prioritising issues like LBGT, preferential treatment for minorities and general wokeness which actively piss's off half of your previous base.

So the only way for the left to be successful is to stop being so left wing?

Left wing used to mean raising the standard of living for the working class, a fair days pay for a fair day's work.

Now it is about student politics issues while the needs of ordinary folk are ignored.

You're right that's why things like raising the minimum wage and housing reform are no longer part of left wing politics.

Oh wait, they are.

[ant1973]

Is it not fair to say that the present Tories occupy the position of the centre left on some policy fronts?

• Economics
• Taxation
• Bigger State in General - certainly more intrusive.
• "fk business" narrative (least business friendly Tories in a generation)

I would be interested to know what centre left policies are not currently being pursued?

Short of more of the above, what else would the left want? Council Housing is one area, I suppose.

[gregs656]

The current govt seem to be doing an ok job at being centre left.