Does Imola still need the chicanes?
Discussion
Now we all know that they were created in the wake of Ratzenberger and Senna in 1994 with the partial thought back to Alboreto in 1991, Berger in 1989 and Piquet in 1987 but are they really needed in this day and age?
It’s a fabulous track to drive from all accounts and I’m really glad they’re going there again COVID or not but overtaking isn’t a strong suit and hasn’t been for a long time.
The cars are as strong as they’ve ever been with scenes like Grosjean last season thankfully exceptionally rare and not really likely to happen with the way the walls would be at Imola so although a crash similar to Senna’s would be spectacular in terms of debris everywhere, it’s pretty unlikely the driver would be harmed.
Plus they have places like Baku with such a long twisting stretch at top speed, at a street circuit and don’t pay much heed to the dangers there and the new Saudi track looks like it’s basically flat out for most of the lap so speed doesn’t seem to be an issue with regards to safety for the FIA or Liberty.
I know Senna’s death in particular and that whole weekend in 1994 will forever be a huge emotive black mark but it seems like the frenzied safety measures set back in late 1994 and early 1995 are well past their need.
You could argue that Tamburello could still be a chicane as it is the only place to overtake but surely removing the second chicane before Tosa would enable opportunities into the hairpin?
Wishful thinking I know and not likely to change any time soon but just a thought I had watching, despite it being a decent race.
Imagine the flat out run from Rivazza II all the way down the straight towards Tosa? Same could be argued for removing the chicane at the top of the hill so braking distances into Rivazza I are lengthened and overtakes there can happen.
It’s a fabulous track to drive from all accounts and I’m really glad they’re going there again COVID or not but overtaking isn’t a strong suit and hasn’t been for a long time.
The cars are as strong as they’ve ever been with scenes like Grosjean last season thankfully exceptionally rare and not really likely to happen with the way the walls would be at Imola so although a crash similar to Senna’s would be spectacular in terms of debris everywhere, it’s pretty unlikely the driver would be harmed.
Plus they have places like Baku with such a long twisting stretch at top speed, at a street circuit and don’t pay much heed to the dangers there and the new Saudi track looks like it’s basically flat out for most of the lap so speed doesn’t seem to be an issue with regards to safety for the FIA or Liberty.
I know Senna’s death in particular and that whole weekend in 1994 will forever be a huge emotive black mark but it seems like the frenzied safety measures set back in late 1994 and early 1995 are well past their need.
You could argue that Tamburello could still be a chicane as it is the only place to overtake but surely removing the second chicane before Tosa would enable opportunities into the hairpin?
Wishful thinking I know and not likely to change any time soon but just a thought I had watching, despite it being a decent race.
Imagine the flat out run from Rivazza II all the way down the straight towards Tosa? Same could be argued for removing the chicane at the top of the hill so braking distances into Rivazza I are lengthened and overtakes there can happen.
Edited by F1GTRUeno on Sunday 18th April 18:05
Interesting point about Baku, the recent influx of street circuits has in my opinion created some dangerous sections of track which wouldn’t be tolerated at a normal circuit. The new street circuits seem to be at odds at what is being done elsewhere.
I think potentially you could return Tamburello and Villeneuve to their original forms, SAFER barriers could help. I doubt that anyone would be brave enough to do it though.
I think potentially you could return Tamburello and Villeneuve to their original forms, SAFER barriers could help. I doubt that anyone would be brave enough to do it though.
F1GTRUeno said:
Now we all know that they were created in the wake of Ratzenberger and Senna in 1994 with the partial thought back to Alboreto in 1991, Berger in 1989 and Piquet in 1987 but are they really needed in this day and age?
It’s a fabulous track to drive from all accounts and I’m really glad they’re going there again COVID or not but overtaking isn’t a strong suit and hasn’t been for a long time.
The cars are as strong as they’ve ever been with scenes like Grosjean last season thankfully exceptionally rare and not really likely to happen with the way the walls would be at Imola so although a crash similar to Senna’s would be spectacular in terms of debris everywhere, it’s pretty unlikely the driver would be harmed.
Plus they have places like Baku with such a long twisting stretch at top speed, at a street circuit and don’t pay much heed to the dangers there and the new Saudi track looks like it’s basically flat out for most of the lap so speed doesn’t seem to be an issue with regards to safety for the FIA or Liberty.
I know Senna’s death in particular and that whole weekend in 1994 will forever be a huge emotive black mark but it seems like the frenzied safety measures set back in late 1994 and early 1995 are well past their need.
You could argue that Tamburello could still be a chicane as it is the only place to overtake but surely removing the second chicane before Tosa would enable opportunities into the hairpin?
Wishful thinking I know and not likely to change any time soon but just a thought I had watching, despite it being a decent race.
Imagine the flat out run from Rivazza II all the way down the straight towards Tosa? Same could be argued for removing the chicane at the top of the hill so braking distances into Rivazza I are lengthened and overtakes there can happen.
I would love to see Imola reinstated to what it was pre-1994 and as you have stated with modern cars and safety measures it would not be an issue. It’s a fabulous track to drive from all accounts and I’m really glad they’re going there again COVID or not but overtaking isn’t a strong suit and hasn’t been for a long time.
The cars are as strong as they’ve ever been with scenes like Grosjean last season thankfully exceptionally rare and not really likely to happen with the way the walls would be at Imola so although a crash similar to Senna’s would be spectacular in terms of debris everywhere, it’s pretty unlikely the driver would be harmed.
Plus they have places like Baku with such a long twisting stretch at top speed, at a street circuit and don’t pay much heed to the dangers there and the new Saudi track looks like it’s basically flat out for most of the lap so speed doesn’t seem to be an issue with regards to safety for the FIA or Liberty.
I know Senna’s death in particular and that whole weekend in 1994 will forever be a huge emotive black mark but it seems like the frenzied safety measures set back in late 1994 and early 1995 are well past their need.
You could argue that Tamburello could still be a chicane as it is the only place to overtake but surely removing the second chicane before Tosa would enable opportunities into the hairpin?
Wishful thinking I know and not likely to change any time soon but just a thought I had watching, despite it being a decent race.
Imagine the flat out run from Rivazza II all the way down the straight towards Tosa? Same could be argued for removing the chicane at the top of the hill so braking distances into Rivazza I are lengthened and overtakes there can happen.
Edited by F1GTRUeno on Sunday 18th April 18:05
Baku is a fantastic track but I do feel there is a big question mark about safety. Don't get me wrong I don't want it changed and I would prefer to see more tracks like this but I would not be surprised to see a bad accident there.
The problem with Imola was the walls which would obviously be protected now. You could argue that even a basic tyre wall could have helped Senna and Ratzenberger stand a chance.
But I have always been of the opinion that the Imola track wasn't the problem. The problem was cars having an issue and a driver being unable to do anything apart from being a passenger straight into a wall.
Each accident at Imola at Tamburello or Villeneuve was due to car issues and this IMO is what killed both Senna and Ratzenberger.
Tamburello was a curve, not a corner. Basic to any driver
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 18th April 20:36
There's no way they'll ever reinstate the old Tamburello. Apart from anything else, it has too much negative history. Can you imagine the outcry if they did and there was another serious accident there? Also, with the removal of the tight chicane by the pits, the approach speeds now would be much higher than before, and you'd be removing an overtaking spot.
I can sympathise with the argument for removing the Villeneuve chicane, as it's not an overtaking spot in itself and makes it very difficult to overtake into Tosa. A longer uninterrupted run all the way from Tamburello to Tosa would provide more overtaking potential.
You also have to remember that these circuits aren't designed or used exclusively for F1. They have to suit a multitude of other cars and bikes, including historic machines of the type that used crash badly at these corners before the chicanes were added.
I can sympathise with the argument for removing the Villeneuve chicane, as it's not an overtaking spot in itself and makes it very difficult to overtake into Tosa. A longer uninterrupted run all the way from Tamburello to Tosa would provide more overtaking potential.
You also have to remember that these circuits aren't designed or used exclusively for F1. They have to suit a multitude of other cars and bikes, including historic machines of the type that used crash badly at these corners before the chicanes were added.
I remember thinking on this in the 90s.
Increase in entry speed would likely need longer runoff.
There's housing at the edge of Rivazza if you hadn't noticed from the weekend.
Tosa is awkward. As well as red tape there's also a river that runs alongside the outside of Tamburello and all the way up to Tosa.
Ratzenberger had his accident between Villenueve & Tosa and factor in another Bottas/Russell racing incident along with driving standards in the past decade - not that I'm insinuating GR & VB either at fault, just a 50-50 racing incident - another nasty shunt doesn't bear thinking about.
(image source: https://www.studiodromo.it/portfolio/autodromo-int...
Moss has been a hero of mine for his attitudes to safety but for the first time Grosjean's accident had me spooked. Not sure how I would react to another shunt like that but seeing a guy burnt to death.
I never liked Imola post-1994. Never looked forward to it, usually boring races, drivers moaning about backmarkers. Only 2005 & 06 did it exceed expectations. Should never have returned this year and would rather it was Mugello brought back. The track is narrow but then F1 cars are way too big these days. The first chicane needs reprofiling as the first part is too quick to promote overtaking at racing speeds. DRS and removing the final chicane helped things a lot.
Increase in entry speed would likely need longer runoff.
There's housing at the edge of Rivazza if you hadn't noticed from the weekend.
Tosa is awkward. As well as red tape there's also a river that runs alongside the outside of Tamburello and all the way up to Tosa.
Ratzenberger had his accident between Villenueve & Tosa and factor in another Bottas/Russell racing incident along with driving standards in the past decade - not that I'm insinuating GR & VB either at fault, just a 50-50 racing incident - another nasty shunt doesn't bear thinking about.
(image source: https://www.studiodromo.it/portfolio/autodromo-int...
Moss has been a hero of mine for his attitudes to safety but for the first time Grosjean's accident had me spooked. Not sure how I would react to another shunt like that but seeing a guy burnt to death.
I never liked Imola post-1994. Never looked forward to it, usually boring races, drivers moaning about backmarkers. Only 2005 & 06 did it exceed expectations. Should never have returned this year and would rather it was Mugello brought back. The track is narrow but then F1 cars are way too big these days. The first chicane needs reprofiling as the first part is too quick to promote overtaking at racing speeds. DRS and removing the final chicane helped things a lot.
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