Solar Panels

[Tlandcruiser]

I’ve just had a price for solar panels via a local council initiative; solar together. 7 panels with a 4.3 kw battery storage on a south west gentle pitch roof.

It seems like a good price? Without the battery storage it’s £2,600 and I could increase the battery storage to 6kw or even 8.6.

The 4.3kw battery storage will increase the price by £3,088

£2,600 just Solar

Or

5,688 solarpanea plus 4.3 battery storage


Any thoughts on the price and battery storage etc?

Edited by Tlandcruiser on Thursday 22 April 16:21

[LordFlathead]

Tlandcruiser said:

I’ve just had a price for solar panels via a local council initiative; solar together. 7 panels with a 4.3 kw battery storage on a south west gentle pitch roof.

It seems like a good price? Without the battery storage it’s £2,600 and I could increase the battery storage to 6kw or even 8.6.

The 4.3kw battery storage will increase the price by £3,088

Any thoughts on the price and battery storage etc?

I'd get a local PV installer in and ask them to quote on a labour only install and do the paperwork submissions. Tell them you've already paid for the panels and inverter (and battery if you want to go that route) but the last contractor has left you in the lurch. This way you can get your panels at the right price along with the inverter/storage solution.

Bimble is doing 495W panels for £160ish so 7 panels (subject to being the same size) would generate 3.25KW and cost half of that. You need to factor in the framework, fixings, cables and connnectors, and possibly a scaff tower if HSE deems fit. You didn't mention the output power of the PV you were quoted, but from experience, you want as much PV as possible to keep the battery store full during the winter months.

Personally, I would try and stay away from high voltage batteries and stick with 48v gear as there is more about, and it easier to replace a duff pack without having to buy another HV battery which is generally an "all in one".

Edited to add:

Two Pylontech 2000 (old model still available) would give you 2 x2.4KW. = 4.8KW and would cost around £1600.

Edited by LordFlathead on Thursday 22 April 16:32

[Scrump]

I have solar panels and have been thinking about adding battery storage but cannot see that it is financially worthwhile.

A kWh of grid electricity costs about 17p.
A 4kWh battery can store a maximum of 68p (4 x 17p) worth of electricity. Is this correct?
Even if one assumes the solar panels can fully charge the battery all year round then it would save £248 per year.
If the battery costs £3k then it takes 12 years to pay for itself. In reality it would take much longer as I find the panels don’t generate very much in the winter months.
The estimated life of a lithium ion battery in a home storage installation I have heard is between 5 and 15 years, so they may need replacing before it has even paid for itself.

Interested to see what other replies there are as I am still keen on battery storage.

[Register1]

Eyes on this battery storage stuff

[LordFlathead]

Scrump said:

I have solar panels and have been thinking about adding battery storage but cannot see that it is financially worthwhile.

A kWh of grid electricity costs about 17p.
A 4kWh battery can store a maximum of 68p (4 x 17p) worth of electricity. Is this correct?
Even if one assumes the solar panels can fully charge the battery all year round then it would save £248 per year.
If the battery costs £3k then it takes 12 years to pay for itself. In reality it would take much longer as I find the panels don’t generate very much in the winter months.
The estimated life of a lithium ion battery in a home storage installation I have heard is between 5 and 15 years, so they may need replacing before it has even paid for itself.

Interested to see what other replies there are as I am still keen on battery storage.

^This pretty much.

I bought 12KW of battery storage for £5k (5 off Pylocntech 2000's) without any consideration of cost. My friend laughed at me and said, "So you just paid for 5 years' electricity upfront.." which is pretty much the case. It could be worse, there is a Tesla Powerwall salesman that has THREE of them (£24k??) and is pleased with the savings..

The money is just getting diverted from the energy suppliers to the tech companies.. this is my only saving grace as I hate energy companies with a passion.

[Tlandcruiser]

The panels quoted are;

JA solar 370w monocystaline pv with a solis 5g range inverter

[Condi]

LordFlathead said:

this is my only saving grace as I hate energy companies with a passion.

Por qua?

It's about the most efficient industry in the UK in terms of competition - whoever you buy from suppliers the same electricity down the same wires. What is it you "hate" about them?


And yes, battery storage makes no sense at all. A very expensive way to buy electricity, or "give money to tech companies" if you'd rather see it that way.

[SpeckledJim]

Scrump said:

I have solar panels and have been thinking about adding battery storage but cannot see that it is financially worthwhile.

A kWh of grid electricity costs about 17p.
A 4kWh battery can store a maximum of 68p (4 x 17p) worth of electricity. Is this correct?
Even if one assumes the solar panels can fully charge the battery all year round then it would save £248 per year.
If the battery costs £3k then it takes 12 years to pay for itself. In reality it would take much longer as I find the panels don’t generate very much in the winter months.
The estimated life of a lithium ion battery in a home storage installation I have heard is between 5 and 15 years, so they may need replacing before it has even paid for itself.

Interested to see what other replies there are as I am still keen on battery storage.

I've got a Tesla Powerwall and I don't think it's a sensible financial choice.

There is a little bit more texture to the situation though. You can charge your domestic battery in the middle of the night at 5p a kwh, use it in the morning, and have it topped back up by your panels in the daytime, ready to use it again in the evening. So you get two bites at it per day.

But still, no, it doesn't make financial sense.

The PV panels are great though. Very gratifying. I'd buy them again tomorrow.

[dmsims]

I also got a quote via that council scheme, what a complete waste of time!!

Because I also by coincidence got a quote from the same company independently, it was £000's cheaper

For battery storage don't forget about Dod and efficiency/losses

[Evanivitch]

Tlandcruiser said:

The panels quoted are;

JA solar 370w monocystaline pv with a solis 5g range inverter

That's quite a small array. Is it a small roof?

[Tlandcruiser]

Evanivitch said:

That's quite a small array. Is it a small roof?

I would take a quick guess that the roof face is 5 m x 15m = 75m square meters

[ARHarh]

Unless you pay for the electric as suggested above you wont be charging the batteries during winter, on an average Jan day I make less than a kw from my 4KW system, sometimes only a few watts. I am waiting for batteries to drop in cost as promised for the last few years.

[satans worm]

The big draw with the Powerwall is for power cuts

Now those in the UK will laugh, as im sure you dont recall the last time you had a power cut, but those in the US get them often, mainly because the power companies are too tight to put the cables underground so every time a tree drops in a storm....

Last year i was a week without power, so no running water (well) which pretty makes the house inhabitable, and i live in New York under an hours train ride from Grand Central!

So a Powerwall is not much use in the UK really, but in other places that can get strong storms and power cuts, they are very useful, all be it expensive compared to a generator back up

[rxe]

We have PV panels on one of the FIT payments, and they definitely make sense.

These days it only really makes sense if your consumption model can be optimised for daytime. We have electric DHW in the summer and are at home to make use of the power.

If you don’t have electric DHW and are away at work every day, then I struggle to see that it adds up financially. For example, our installation has generated 25 MW/h in 6 years, which would have netted us £1200 at the current tariff rate. The business case simply does not stack up. If we add the £800 a year subsidy in (because we did it in 2014) then yes, it makes sense.

Batteries make even less sense.

The subsidies are cool and all that, but they were simply a tax on the population to allow affluent people to justify spending 8K on a set of panels.

[rustyuk]

I'm in the energy industry so get a great discount. Event taking that into account and the FIT payments it's at least 15 years to break even that is of course with zero breakdowns and maintenance.

If you managed to get on the first FIT scheme a few years ago you might be ok, otherwise it is a total waste of money. Plus you have to stay in your current home for the 15 to 20 years, something which most people fail to consider and schemes fail to mention.

We have a massive system to support 100k's of customers and I believe there are around 2k and it's not growing.

[Evanivitch]

rustyuk said:

I'm in the energy industry so get a great discount. Event taking that into account and the FIT payments it's at least 15 years to break even that is of course with zero breakdowns and maintenance.

If you managed to get on the first FIT scheme a few years ago you might be ok, otherwise it is a total waste of money. Plus you have to stay in your current home for the 15 to 20 years, something which most people fail to consider and schemes fail to mention.

We have a massive system to support 100k's of customers and I believe there are around 2k and it's not growing.

It's quite impossible to make generic statements like that as everyone's experiences are different.

For example if you're able to charge your car from solar during the day, or you work from home. Do you use an immersion heater to divert your solar? What's your export tariff?

[Condi]

rustyuk said:

I'm in the energy industry so get a great discount. Event taking that into account and the FIT payments it's at least 15 years to break even that is of course with zero breakdowns and maintenance.

If you managed to get on the first FIT scheme a few years ago you might be ok, otherwise it is a total waste of money. Plus you have to stay in your current home for the 15 to 20 years, something which most people fail to consider and schemes fail to mention.

We have a massive system to support 100k's of customers and I believe there are around 2k and it's not growing.

Experience doesn't necessarily bear that out tbh. For people on early FIT schemes the payback ended up being 7-10 years, later schemes towards 15 years, but even then it was worthwhile.

Subsidy free solar for the average house in the UK isn't profitable for most people, but on a commercial scale it is, and so I think at some point it will be worthwhile again, not least because we need more renewable energy to help with the emissions targets. I am surprised that there hasn't been more of a push from government to add rooftop solar to newbuilds yet, combined with immersion heaters to store the energy and suddenly you can reduce your gas offtake, which is a major headache for central government ref emissions targets.

[Zoon]

Now that the feed in tariffs aren't there solar payback/breakeven is difficult in this country.

[Evanivitch]

Zoon said:

Now that the feed in tariffs aren't there solar payback/breakeven is difficult in this country.

There are still export tariffs available.

[Zoon]

Evanivitch said:

Zoon said:

Now that the feed in tariffs aren't there solar payback/breakeven is difficult in this country.

There are still export tariffs available.

But is it worth the outlay?
Based on the calculations I did it wasn't.