Insight into Islamic Extremist Killer's mind....
Discussion
Jezus... that chills me to the bone....
Not sure what to make of it myself. I mean, if this is what these radicals are like then what chance does any civilised country have? Be they christian, muslim, hindu or athiest - there any nothing can counter those who just wish to kill...
Personally I think its a case of power. Its not the actual people who do, its those who control and influence them. They want power. They will do anything to get it and if that means twisting the minds of others to get it then fair enough. Turn these puppets into mindless killers who think there is a place in heaven for them for breaking just about every part of the Koran - oh how wrong are they? I mean, I am a christened proddie but in reality an athiest. So when you die you die - no afterlife for me, but wouldnt it be great to find that there is one and all of these suicide bombers are going straight to hell....
Anyway, back to the point - What does Osama want? He wants to rule Saudi, or the current rulers kicked out at least. So what does he do? Conducts a terrorist war against the west and everyone inbetween to get his twisted little way. Not quite the holy jihad that he talks about.... its just power at the end of the day. Its just a shame that a religion gets caught up in the middle and used as an "excuse".....
Not sure what to make of it myself. I mean, if this is what these radicals are like then what chance does any civilised country have? Be they christian, muslim, hindu or athiest - there any nothing can counter those who just wish to kill...
Personally I think its a case of power. Its not the actual people who do, its those who control and influence them. They want power. They will do anything to get it and if that means twisting the minds of others to get it then fair enough. Turn these puppets into mindless killers who think there is a place in heaven for them for breaking just about every part of the Koran - oh how wrong are they? I mean, I am a christened proddie but in reality an athiest. So when you die you die - no afterlife for me, but wouldnt it be great to find that there is one and all of these suicide bombers are going straight to hell....
Anyway, back to the point - What does Osama want? He wants to rule Saudi, or the current rulers kicked out at least. So what does he do? Conducts a terrorist war against the west and everyone inbetween to get his twisted little way. Not quite the holy jihad that he talks about.... its just power at the end of the day. Its just a shame that a religion gets caught up in the middle and used as an "excuse".....
up-the-dubs said:
I'm not sure if there's something wrong with me, but I'm not shocked or stunned at all. I believe that these guys are indeed doing something that they deeply believe in and his attitude doesn't surprise me at all. Unfortunatly, they are whackos, and act upon their beliefs.
I don't think there's anything wrong with you at all. I believe the same. It's sad that people find themselves incredulous when faced with reality.
We, as a nation, really aren't as strong as we should be.
Edited specifically to add;
And strength doesn't include race hate either.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 13th July 01:19
Clutching a Koran...
Someone from the real faith should really be getting upset now.
Is the faith so disenfranchised, so dissolute, so washed up, so finished...
...where's the control from above, where is Allah? Why are the believers not merciful?
They hide behind someone elses religion - why does the religion condone them?
>> Edited by scruffy on Wednesday 13th July 01:33
Someone from the real faith should really be getting upset now.
Is the faith so disenfranchised, so dissolute, so washed up, so finished...
...where's the control from above, where is Allah? Why are the believers not merciful?
They hide behind someone elses religion - why does the religion condone them?
>> Edited by scruffy on Wednesday 13th July 01:33
anonymous said:
[redacted]
There is nothing "deep" to make of it Alex, it is what it is. The Netherlands did nothing to bring this on. People say it is the US or UK that perpetuates these actions. This happened in the Netherlands. The idiot who did this answered all our questions very openly. "He killed because someone believed differently than him", period. He is not alone, he is typical of all Islamic terrorists, that is their common pattern. Note that he was moderate until certain radical preaching got to him. This is the type of "preaching" that goes on in our countries everyday and we need to shut it down. It has been disqualified as freedom of speech or religious tolerance when it brought death. Again, this man confirmed the reason he killed and promised to do it again. It is now OK to shut down preaching of hate without feeling we are stepping on freedom or tolerance because the practioners of these actions have taken it beyond that.
scruffy said:
Clutching a Koran...
Someone from the real faith should really be getting upset now.
Is the faith so disenfranchised, so dissolute, so washed up, so finished...
...where's the control from above, where is Allah? Why are the believers not merciful?
They hide behind someone elses religion - why does the religion condone them?
>> Edited by scruffy on Wednesday 13th July 01:33
up-the-dubs said:
nope. Sorry, you've lost me there mate .
I sort of got it, although I could be wrong. I figure scruffy is saying that the Islamic faith should regulate it's self, and possibly even that that means we can ostricise all of that faith.
I kind of see it differently.
One might attribute recent events in London with our activities in Iraq. This may or may not be true, but evidence one way or the other is going to be thin on the ground.
If it is because of Iraq, then firstly, we have to take this stuff on the chin. The positive side of what's happening out there (if you believe there is a positive side), was never going to be easy. I see it as part of the price.
On the other hand if it's not because of Iraq, the point is that we all need to have a better understanding of why these people feel as angry as they do. Firstly we need to find ways of appeasing them, if it doesn't compromise us by more than acceptable limits. Secondly, if we understand why these people are so angry, it may help us to develop better defences against them.
Although the Muslims, the Christians and the Jews claim to have The One True God, the Muslims firmly believe in the ‘Submission to the Will of God’.
This of course applies to The Will of their God and definitely not to the will of anyone else’s God. Anyone that disagrees is in real trouble with the very real threat of death for anyone stupid enough to willingly (or even mistakenly) criticise in any way whatsoever the name of the Prophet or the good name of Islam.
A rule that applies particularly to those not of the Islamic faith.
Islam says although man has been given the greatest potential of any creature, man must submit to the will of Allah. Also that man (and only man) is susceptible to evil and that man is responsible for his actions.
This makes belief in the sixth article (the one about the omnipotent God who predetermines life and actions, good and evil) could be interpreted as an excuse for war, rape, murder and all sorts of general mayhem - and this is where The Day of Judgement comes in. God, having made all men responsible for their actions, will judge men precisely on those actions.
It is as simple as that.
The good news is that if the good Muslim goes to the inevitable Day of Judgement with a balance of more good works than wicked ones he is assured of a place in heaven. Which gives every good (and potential) Muslim something to think about.
The Islamic faith offers less room for interpretation, more control of direction, more focus and more answers than most modern religions.
It is simply a matter of belief - and more than 800 million people do.
So why do 4 prats get away with murder?
Can the faith not say - nothing to do with us?
This of course applies to The Will of their God and definitely not to the will of anyone else’s God. Anyone that disagrees is in real trouble with the very real threat of death for anyone stupid enough to willingly (or even mistakenly) criticise in any way whatsoever the name of the Prophet or the good name of Islam.
A rule that applies particularly to those not of the Islamic faith.
Islam says although man has been given the greatest potential of any creature, man must submit to the will of Allah. Also that man (and only man) is susceptible to evil and that man is responsible for his actions.
This makes belief in the sixth article (the one about the omnipotent God who predetermines life and actions, good and evil) could be interpreted as an excuse for war, rape, murder and all sorts of general mayhem - and this is where The Day of Judgement comes in. God, having made all men responsible for their actions, will judge men precisely on those actions.
It is as simple as that.
The good news is that if the good Muslim goes to the inevitable Day of Judgement with a balance of more good works than wicked ones he is assured of a place in heaven. Which gives every good (and potential) Muslim something to think about.
The Islamic faith offers less room for interpretation, more control of direction, more focus and more answers than most modern religions.
It is simply a matter of belief - and more than 800 million people do.
So why do 4 prats get away with murder?
Can the faith not say - nothing to do with us?
scruffy said:
OK, for the unsure...
...Why are people who invoke riots, religous hatred, maim, murder, disfigure, rape, declare war without reasonable grounds, allowed 'the name of Islam' to get away with it?...
I'm not so sure that they are. They are free to talk about doing collaborative suicide bombings, but not to carry them out.
I personally think that the problem comes from the fact that britons have allowed the islamic faith to develop entire movements that support the actual activity.
The mistake we made was to legislate against incitement to racial hatred.
We are weak because the government feels it has to make laws to enforce one off problems for which the general population implicitly support the solution. We are weak because the government force legislation that is not generally supported by the population.
We are weak because the head of government is a lawyer, and he's out of touch.
ZR1cliff said:
Why have the extremists started "kicking off" in the last few years?,there never used to be all this hate or have i been walking round with my eyes shut.
I think a considerable ammount of it is the combined injustice, on a global scale that has been done to muslims, in the last few decades. Just about every nation that has had a go at them, directly or indirectly, is a member of the G8.
I am still waiting, as are the majority of Brits, for the official stance of Islam in Britain to condemn openly and with vigour, all these types of action.
Until such time they are marginalising themselves or be even targets for other loonies, which I do not condone!
The majority of Muslims are peaceloving and peacekeeping, but they're obviously sheltering their extremeists for whatever reason, and until they exorcise these madmen they are not acceptable in western society.
Until such time they are marginalising themselves or be even targets for other loonies, which I do not condone!
The majority of Muslims are peaceloving and peacekeeping, but they're obviously sheltering their extremeists for whatever reason, and until they exorcise these madmen they are not acceptable in western society.
ZR1cliff said:
Why have the extremists started "kicking off" in the last few years?,there never used to be all this hate or have i been walking round with my eyes shut.
These attacks have been brought into focus by the events of sept 2001 but radical muslims have been attacking Western targets for many years. The only difference being that most attacks were against Western targets in muslim countries. Ease of world travel and communication has made it easier to operate in Western countries. Even so there have been numerous attacks on Western targets from Munich in 1972 to the numerous plane hijacking in the 80s as well as the Lockerbie bombings in 1988 these attacks have been ongoing for the past 30 years and they will continue for the next 30
The people who carry them out use religion as an excuse to further their own political and social agendas, they are good muslims in the same way that the Klu Klux Klan are good christians!
scruffy said:
Islam says...that man is responsible for his actions.
scruffy said:
the sixth article (the one about the omnipotent God who predetermines life and actions, good and evil)
scruffy said:
God, having made all men responsible for their actions, will judge men precisely on those actions.
So, for some reason, God predetermines life and all the actions in it, and then judges men on these actions...that he himself has previously predetermined. So men are responsible for their actions...but these actions have already been chosen for them.
That doesn't seem fair!
The best weapon to combat this cancerous tumor of radical Islam is the condemnation and complete stigmatisation of these dangerous fools and their associates by Muslims themselves. However, if mainstream Islam cannot find within itself the ability to combat this, then unfortunately it would be left up to the state, and in the UK, and many other countries, the state is the bluntest, most indiscriminate, most inefficient and warped tool for doing anything - so the Muslim community should beware - they'll be screaming the houses down accusing the police and other state apparati of discrimination, but the question will be: did you do enough to combat radical Islam?
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