London City Digital Control Tower
Discussion
London City has now gone live with its Digital Control Tower, following testing and trials during lockdown. 16 cameras and sensors on a 50m mast replace the traditional control tower and the air traffic controllers are now based in Swanwick, 70 miles away. LCY is the first major airport to adopt the technology.
Impressive!
Impressive!
Just to correct slightly, the first major UK airport - Budapest went live in 2017 - https://www.atc-network.com/atc-news/searidge-tech...
48k said:
London City has now gone live with its Digital Control Tower, following testing and trials during lockdown. 16 cameras and sensors on a 50m mast replace the traditional control tower and the air traffic controllers are now based in Swanwick, 70 miles away. LCY is the first major airport to adopt the technology.
Impressive!
What is the advantage of this? Surely moving the traffic controllers 70 miles away is just inconvenient if something goes wrong and you still need the same number of staff.Impressive!
Iwantafusca said:
What if there’s a glitch / powercut/ computer says no etc ?
Or if something blocks the view, you can't scare off or look around it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yb_VA4L3YUBritishBlitz87 said:
What is the advantage of this? Surely moving the traffic controllers 70 miles away is just inconvenient if something goes wrong and you still need the same number of staff.
The advantage to LCY is they get the real estate back: they are space constrained, & the old tower is in the way of the terminal expansion. The mast site is using space that isn't obstructing anything.For the individuals, there's been upheaval, no doubt; but for the operation, it's not that different. The maintenance team on site deal with the equipment there, the Swanwick team deal with their end. I don't think staff costs were a particular issue, other factors were more significant. There may be opportunities to cross onto the approach sectors already at Swanwick, but I don't think that's a major consideration at the moment.
Iwantafusca said:
Do controllers never have a need to physically see aircraft now ?
What if there’s a glitch / powercut/ computer says no etc ?
In decades past, perhaps, but if anything, the remote system is better than the real thing: cameras allow zooming, filtering, labelling, all things the human eye can't do. Video cameras have covered blind spots since I started, the technology is a culmination of all that.What if there’s a glitch / powercut/ computer says no etc ?
The systems in place to deal with that are well known, there are multiple redundancies & contingency systems in place. No option is 100% proof, but there are risks with on site facilities, too, which remote systems remove.
FourWheelDrift said:
Or if something blocks the view, you can't scare off or look around it
That's all dealt with using multiple cameras & guard systems.
Iwantafusca said:
Do controllers never have a need to physically see aircraft now ?
What if there’s a glitch / powercut/ computer says no etc ?
Or a JCB What if there’s a glitch / powercut/ computer says no etc ?
I suppose it's simply following in the steps of the TV industry where "The gallery" overlooking the studio floor disappeared into a back room years ago. Ditto railway signalmen come to think of it.
That seems like an utter waste of money. If the old control tower was in the way of expansion .... then why not build the new tower on top of the new building .
The worlds going mad for tech (or is that the tech is sold to idiots with too much money). .... I just think this is a bad thing.
Computers and cameras everywhere is one thing but there’s no substitute for actually being at the location when something goes awry....
The worlds going mad for tech (or is that the tech is sold to idiots with too much money). .... I just think this is a bad thing.
Computers and cameras everywhere is one thing but there’s no substitute for actually being at the location when something goes awry....
Wozy68 said:
there’s no substitute for actually being at the location when something goes awry....
I'm not sure I agree. If there's an incident, surely having all of that technology at your disposal puts a controller in a better position than being sat there with a pair of binoculars?On the other hand, get Bruce Willis on the phone because I've come up with an excellent plot for a new Die Hard movie....
Taita said:
Omega Tau podcast had an episode about ATC at Heathrow and this was mentioned.
You can get overlays etc on the video feeds with info on each plane etc, quite clever.
In addition I believe the system itself is scanning the video feeds and can alert/highlight/track things like flocks of birds, drones etc. on zoomed/enlarged overlays. So it might even spot a problem before a controller does.You can get overlays etc on the video feeds with info on each plane etc, quite clever.
Wait, I’ve seen this film. The terrorists took over an actual control tower and set up a virtual one, crashing a plane. A bit reversed perhaps, granted, but there was this off duty New York cop who saved the day....
I’m sure there are back up and redundancy systems, but still, I feel uneasy about this. Perhaps I’ve been watching too many films...
I’m sure there are back up and redundancy systems, but still, I feel uneasy about this. Perhaps I’ve been watching too many films...
Because I feel uneasy about this I am trying to find arguments against it but I’m struggling. If movements are safe then I guess that’s all good. It’s just this continuing reliance on technology that bothers me. We still have humans controlling the airport/airspace around so that gives me comfort. Solar flare conspiracy theory maybe?
I suppose the next step is for the pilot to fly it from home, like a drone. Hopefully he doesn't put try to pause it when the doorbell goes.
The final step is for all the passengers to have virtual holidays, sitting at home in front of a big telly and a sun lamp. What with Amazon and Deliveroo as well, we can stay in our houses for ever. How exciting!
The final step is for all the passengers to have virtual holidays, sitting at home in front of a big telly and a sun lamp. What with Amazon and Deliveroo as well, we can stay in our houses for ever. How exciting!
48k said:
Wozy68 said:
there’s no substitute for actually being at the location when something goes awry....
I'm not sure I agree. If there's an incident, surely having all of that technology at your disposal puts a controller in a better position than being sat there with a pair of binoculars?On the other hand, get Bruce Willis on the phone because I've come up with an excellent plot for a new Die Hard movie....
Seems a bold step for little gain, I mean is it that much of an effort to put a room on a pole somewhere else on site?
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