Supercharged or naturally aspirated?

[BroadsRS6]

This isn't a choice for me at present, it is for a France-based family member.
He wants a un-faired but un-hinged litre bike and has worked his way down to a choice of:-
KTM 1290 Super Duke, Triumph Speed Triple 1200, Ducati Streetfighter V4 1100, Aprilia Tuono 1100 AND the supercharged Kawasaki 1000 H2 which from what i can see has 197 bhp, not even the most from the list above. I've never ridden one but is all the weight and complexity on something so much lighter than a car worth it? The Ducati has over 200 bhp and the others around 180 bhp. Does the extra low down power a S/Charged motor may well have actually matter on a motorcycle? All of the above go like stink from 3,000 rpm anyway!
MCN lists the Ducati at 205 bhp and 199 kgs, the Kawasaki at 197 bhp and FORTY kgs more! That's a hell of a lot extra.
Or is that forced induction power delivery worth the 90 pounds of extra lard?

[podman]

Ill let you know as ill be test riding most of those (bar the Ducati ) in the coming weeks...aside from watching the group tests on youtube and getting some idea, thats the only real way to tell isnt it?

[black-k1]

I run an H2 SX SE. It's basically the same engine as the Z H2.

I bought the H2 SX after 6 years and over 100K miles on BMW K1300Ss, so was used to large capacity naturally aspirated engines. While, on paper, the torque from the 1300 is very slightly better than the H2 SX, with the extra bhp of the H2 SX coming from a higher rev limit, the delivery from the supercharged engine is simply stunning. Even before mine was flashed (now 220bhp) the pick-up from the engine was immense in any gear from any revs. Roll on comparison (in gear and through the gears) with both a K1300S and an SD1290GT got the response over the intercom of "Jesus! You just fked off!". And that is after I geared the bike up considerably (+1F, -2R)

I'd have the Z H2 every time, just for the engine.

[Steve Bass]

The S/C on the Kawasaki is VERY different from the normal S/C car drivers think of.

It's basically a mechanically driven turbo and provides boost throughout the rpm range

And irrespective of the manufacturers claimed numbers, they're all phenomenally fast bikes. The Kawa however can offer more from its forced induction set up if unlocked than the others as N/A's

[gareth_r]

^^^^^^ This.

If you want to go full turbo nutter bd, the cost/benefit analysis will always favour forced induction.

EDIT: Bearing in mind that if the mapper gets it wrong then the cost/benefit needle rapidly swings to the cost side of the dial.

Edited by gareth_r on Monday 17th May 14:12

[black-k1]

The Kawasaki engine is artificially neutered by Kawasaki for reasons known only to them. It red lines at 12,500 yet, from about 9000 rpm on, the ECU starts closing the throttle butterflies despite the fact that the twist grip is being held fully open. By about 12,000 rpm the butterflies are only 20% open. That's why the output from a dyno shows a near linear increase in bhp up to around 9000rpm and about 195bhp, then an almost table top flat output from 9,000 to 12,500. Any half decent tuner starts by simply allowing the throttles to remain 100% open until at least 12,500. This, with a high flow filter and a decent can will give 215bhp+. Add in a set of ZX10 headers, a decat and raising the rev limit to 13,000 and 225bhp is not out of the question, and all before you touch the super charger.

[anonymous-user]

black-k1 said:

I run an H2 SX SE. It's basically the same engine as the Z H2.

I bought the H2 SX after 6 years and over 100K miles on BMW K1300Ss, so was used to large capacity naturally aspirated engines. While, on paper, the torque from the 1300 is very slightly better than the H2 SX, with the extra bhp of the H2 SX coming from a higher rev limit, the delivery from the supercharged engine is simply stunning. Even before mine was flashed (now 220bhp) the pick-up from the engine was immense in any gear from any revs. Roll on comparison (in gear and through the gears) with both a K1300S and an SD1290GT got the response over the intercom of "Jesus! You just fked off!". And that is after I geared the bike up considerably (+1F, -2R)

I'd have the Z H2 every time, just for the engine.

Isn't the H2 all about monster torque too, so you don't have to be wring the thing out to get it moving? I do like the idea of that, because I'm quite a lazy rider and do have a habit of being in the wrong (too high) gear quite often.

[black-k1]

Newarch said:

black-k1 said:

I run an H2 SX SE. It's basically the same engine as the Z H2.

I bought the H2 SX after 6 years and over 100K miles on BMW K1300Ss, so was used to large capacity naturally aspirated engines. While, on paper, the torque from the 1300 is very slightly better than the H2 SX, with the extra bhp of the H2 SX coming from a higher rev limit, the delivery from the supercharged engine is simply stunning. Even before mine was flashed (now 220bhp) the pick-up from the engine was immense in any gear from any revs. Roll on comparison (in gear and through the gears) with both a K1300S and an SD1290GT got the response over the intercom of "Jesus! You just fked off!". And that is after I geared the bike up considerably (+1F, -2R)

I'd have the Z H2 every time, just for the engine.

Isn't the H2 all about monster torque too, so you don't have to be wring the thing out to get it moving? I do like the idea of that, because I'm quite a lazy rider and do have a habit of being in the wrong (too high) gear quite often.

Indeed. The torque is about the same as from a 1300 n/a engine.

[BroadsRS6]

I've found that most modern litre bikes already have immense power from low revs anyway. I'll have to ride a charged Kwak 1000. For me I feel sure I'd rather have 90 pounds less weight and the gorgeous linear delivery of something like my 2017 'blade. It'll be fun finding out.

[Esceptico]

Would be fun to try...if I can borrow someone else’s licence...

I already struggle with keeping my licence/liberty with the Tuono. Mainly I look for really twisty roads - luckily lots of good ones here in NZ - where there is no real point using full throttle as you would only be back on the brakes a couple of seconds later. I find rolling on and off the throttle makes it easier anyway to concentrate on corner speed and it’s smoother too.

If the bike is lent over a lot then power somewhat academic as you can’t access it (I’m not good or confident enough to be spinning up the rear on purpose!)

[RemaL]

Got to say I'm impressed with my H2. apart from the huge amount of power you would not notice a Supercharger is fitted. very smooth