Rail services to come under unified state control
Discussion
NP&E seems more appropriate for this than the boats, planes & trains.
The government has announced the biggest shake-up in the UK's railways since privatisation in the mid-1990s.
The reform plan will see the creation of a new state-owned body, Great British Railways (GBR), which will own and manage rail infrastructure.
But there will still be a role for the private sector, with private operators contracted to run most trains.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57176858
The government has announced the biggest shake-up in the UK's railways since privatisation in the mid-1990s.
The reform plan will see the creation of a new state-owned body, Great British Railways (GBR), which will own and manage rail infrastructure.
But there will still be a role for the private sector, with private operators contracted to run most trains.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57176858
I wonder even with the economy opening up if the demand for train usage will be the same as 2019. I really doubt this will be the case. So if the majority WFH 1 day a week (20%) is this loss in revenue enough to support the railways. If it was 2 days a week (40%) are they still viable. I assume last year there were subsidies from the state to keep it ticking over, but how long can this go on?
Gecko1978 said:
I wonder even with the economy opening up if the demand for train usage will be the same as 2019. I really doubt this will be the case. So if the majority WFH 1 day a week (20%) is this loss in revenue enough to support the railways. If it was 2 days a week (40%) are they still viable. I assume last year there were subsidies from the state to keep it ticking over, but how long can this go on?
The whole season ticket revenue stream is under pressure as “break even” was about 3 days a week. Once you’ve paid thousands for a season ticket, you might as well use it, but if you’re handing over £20 at the barrier, you think “do I really need to come in today”. This underpinned the 5 days a week in the office, but if the default is going to be 3, then who the hell will be buying season tickets?rxe said:
The whole season ticket revenue stream is under pressure as “break even” was about 3 days a week. Once you’ve paid thousands for a season ticket, you might as well use it, but if you’re handing over £20 at the barrier, you think “do I really need to come in today”. This underpinned the 5 days a week in the office, but if the default is going to be 3, then who the hell will be buying season tickets?
That's a great point.Lets face it, plenty of people were occasionally working from home pre-2020 anyway, and now we've had a period of forced and therefore proven success, I can't imagine many people wanting to go back into the office any more than they have to as a bare minimum. It'll probably become the exception, not the norm, hence completely undermining any "season ticket" viability as you say.
On the plus side, hopefully the odd trip into London from Reading that I make now and again will become a little more bareable in terms of how packed the trains are.....
We had a nationalised rail service in the UK, everyone took the piss out of it and it was by all accounts pretty s
t.
So they privatised it and made us buy it back from ourselves, with the money they raised by selling us back what we already owned they paid some rather large bonuses and dividends meaning they could no longer afford any trains so they set about leasing the right to run trains on the rails we now owned twice.
Because trains aren't cheap the companies that bought the leases to use the rails we'd bought back from ourselves had to borrow some money from us so they could buy the trains, in order to pay back the money we lent them to buy the trains and cover the cost of leasing the rails we'd already paid for twice they had to put the fairs up so they could pay us back the money we'd lent them to buy the trains to run on the rails we'd paid for twice.
Now none of this was working particularly well so we decided to buy back the rails we'd sold to ourselves...
And once we'd bought back the private rails we'd sold to ourselves the rails were Soooo expensive that the leases to run the trains no where near covered the debt that owning the rails had cost us (presumably each time we sell and buy them back from ourselves we like to make a bit of profit, know what I mean).
So we sold them again. Back to ourselves obviously, but at this point running a train on them was so expensive it was commercially unviable, even though the fairs were going up at multiples of inflation year on year. So none wanted to do it and they deliberately did the sttest job they could so they'd lose their leases, like an 8 year old whose been asked to tidy their room.
Then covid happened and no one used trains for 12 months. And now we need to buy it all back and start again?
t.So they privatised it and made us buy it back from ourselves, with the money they raised by selling us back what we already owned they paid some rather large bonuses and dividends meaning they could no longer afford any trains so they set about leasing the right to run trains on the rails we now owned twice.
Because trains aren't cheap the companies that bought the leases to use the rails we'd bought back from ourselves had to borrow some money from us so they could buy the trains, in order to pay back the money we lent them to buy the trains and cover the cost of leasing the rails we'd already paid for twice they had to put the fairs up so they could pay us back the money we'd lent them to buy the trains to run on the rails we'd paid for twice.
Now none of this was working particularly well so we decided to buy back the rails we'd sold to ourselves...
And once we'd bought back the private rails we'd sold to ourselves the rails were Soooo expensive that the leases to run the trains no where near covered the debt that owning the rails had cost us (presumably each time we sell and buy them back from ourselves we like to make a bit of profit, know what I mean).
So we sold them again. Back to ourselves obviously, but at this point running a train on them was so expensive it was commercially unviable, even though the fairs were going up at multiples of inflation year on year. So none wanted to do it and they deliberately did the s
ttest job they could so they'd lose their leases, like an 8 year old whose been asked to tidy their room. Then covid happened and no one used trains for 12 months. And now we need to buy it all back and start again?
They are running at a loss but why not just keep it this way? I'd say that a state-subsidised private network, or part-private owned, is better than a nationalised one. Maybe that is the solution they are going for - I wouldn't judge too soon. TFL is a private company that's owned by the government - works reasonably IMO.
BobsPigeon said:
We had a nationalised rail service in the UK, everyone took the piss out of it and it was by all accounts pretty st.
So they privatised it and made us buy it back from ourselves, with the money they raised by selling us back what we already owned they paid some rather large bonuses and dividends meaning they could no longer afford any trains so they set about leasing the right to run trains on the rails we now owned twice.
Because trains aren't cheap the companies that bought the leases to use the rails we'd bought back from ourselves had to borrow some money from us so they could buy the trains, in order to pay back the money we lent them to buy the trains and cover the cost of leasing the rails we'd already paid for twice they had to put the fairs up so they could pay us back the money we'd lent them to buy the trains to run on the rails we'd paid for twice.
Now none of this was working particularly well so we decided to buy back the rails we'd sold to ourselves...
And once we'd bought back the private rails we'd sold to ourselves the rails were Soooo expensive that the leases to run the trains no where near covered the debt that owning the rails had cost us (presumably each time we sell and buy them back from ourselves we like to make a bit of profit, know what I mean).
So we sold them again. Back to ourselves obviously, but at this point running a train on them was so expensive it was commercially unviable, even though the fairs were going up at multiples of inflation year on year. So none wanted to do it and they deliberately did the sttest job they could so they'd lose their leases, like an 8 year old whose been asked to tidy their room.
Then covid happened and no one used trains for 12 months. And now we need to buy it all back and start again?
t.So they privatised it and made us buy it back from ourselves, with the money they raised by selling us back what we already owned they paid some rather large bonuses and dividends meaning they could no longer afford any trains so they set about leasing the right to run trains on the rails we now owned twice.
Because trains aren't cheap the companies that bought the leases to use the rails we'd bought back from ourselves had to borrow some money from us so they could buy the trains, in order to pay back the money we lent them to buy the trains and cover the cost of leasing the rails we'd already paid for twice they had to put the fairs up so they could pay us back the money we'd lent them to buy the trains to run on the rails we'd paid for twice.
Now none of this was working particularly well so we decided to buy back the rails we'd sold to ourselves...
And once we'd bought back the private rails we'd sold to ourselves the rails were Soooo expensive that the leases to run the trains no where near covered the debt that owning the rails had cost us (presumably each time we sell and buy them back from ourselves we like to make a bit of profit, know what I mean).
So we sold them again. Back to ourselves obviously, but at this point running a train on them was so expensive it was commercially unviable, even though the fairs were going up at multiples of inflation year on year. So none wanted to do it and they deliberately did the s
ttest job they could so they'd lose their leases, like an 8 year old whose been asked to tidy their room. Then covid happened and no one used trains for 12 months. And now we need to buy it all back and start again?
citizensm1th said:
Well I never thought I would see a tory party embarking on the start of state ownership of assets.
Just the utilitys and airports to go at Corbyn gets his manifesto promises completed.
I wonder just how many rpm's Maggie is doing in her grave right now.
Maggie had a state-owned railway during her whole tenure.Just the utilitys and airports to go at Corbyn gets his manifesto promises completed.
I wonder just how many rpm's Maggie is doing in her grave right now.
Ironic that a quasi-lefty PM (to some on here at least) was the one to privatise the train operators!
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