Which sports / fun car for £15K?
Discussion
Hey all. Currently driving around in a tuned R53 Mini Cooper S which I've owned for just over a year now. I really enjoy it, it's got coilovers, 16" wheels and a reduced pulley, so it rides and handles properly, and with approx 200 bhp it goes very nicely, its a great fun little car, but in a way, I miss my previous car, an MR2 Roadster. The Mini is a lot faster, but also a little one-dimensional in comparison, with its MRWD balance and the ability to drop the roof (which is a nice to have rather than essential). The Mini is probably one of the best FWD cars I've owned, but it is still what it is.
This year I was going to be made redundant, but I've managed to land a new role and am fortunate to be getting a nice pay increase as a result. With that in mind, considering I've had a pretty awful last couple of years, and the fact I'm not getting any younger, I feel like treating myself with some of the extra money, once I'm through the probation period anyway. Apart from cars I don't really have any other hobbies unless you count buying gadgets as a hobby.
While I would not rule out a car I've had before, I would probably prefer to try something new. In the past I've owned a Clio 172 (Ph1) and Clio 182, DC2 Integra R and FN2 Civic R, BMW 328 (E36 and E46) and Z4 Coupe 3.0 Si, 350Z Roadster, MR2 Turbo and Roadster, two Mk1 MX5s, Mk2 Golf GTI, and a few more besides that were mostly sheds.
Any car I get does not have to be particularly practical, but will have to live outside. It will be mostly used for road driving and will likely only rarely see a track. I live in the North East, so I have plenty of good, albeit quite potholed roads around these parts on my doorstep. I've been thinking about the following cars:-
Lotus Elise S2 / Vauxhall VX220
These have been a bit of a bucket list car for me, and while I've had the chance to own them in the past, I've always bottled out and went for something more practical / less raw. I'm slightly concerned that they are quite expensive for what they are, and that it wouldn't be much better than an MR2 Roadster I could pick up for £2k... that said, I've watched videos online for hours and most of the journos and youtubers rave about them, and I must admit, they do look *really* good fun even just watching them in a video.
I was also worried that 120 bhp wouldn't be enough in one of these, but I am assured that it's not the case and that the K-series is a lovely linear engine. However, there are other options, such as the VX220 if this was the case. A turbo is just about doable for £15k, and I'm sure that wont be short of performance, it'll probably be the fastest accelerating car I've owned. A supercharged 2.2 or one with ITBs on it I wouldn't rule out.
That said though, I much prefer the S2 Elise to look at. I would certainly consider a 111R but it seems unlikely to find one for less than 20k which puts the monthlies up by a significant amount, so I wonder whether it would be worth paying the extra for.
I am also a little concerned it might be harsh and uncomfortable, but I understand it's more that they're just noisy than anything else?
It is however, likely to be the most raw, connected, visceral driving experience I'm likely to get and when I saw on the other thread people singing their praises and one poster even suggesting it was the best driving experience for £100k or less, it does make me wonder if I *need* to try one.
TVR Chimaera / Griffith
My budget would probably stretch to a Chim. A completely different proposition to an Elise certainly. I feel like I would be buying this car mainly for the engine and character of the thing. I've never had a V8 engined car before, and I must admit, they always sound absolutely awesome.
I would imagine unlike an Elise, in this I'm guessing you wouldn't attack B-roads so much as have a more chilled out driving style and enjoy blasts of torque from the big V8 on the straights, which I'm sure makes every drive an event.
That said though they seem quite high maintenance from what I can tell and I'm sure it would cost significantly more to run than an Elise/VX.
Porsche Cayman S
I've not owned a Porsche before, and I have heard really good things about the Cayman. It offers that same MRWD handling balance as the Elise but with a bit luxury added in. There may be times when we would like to go on a road trip and I would imagine it will be much more pleasant than in an Elise, but ultimately, this would be less than 10% of my use.
I am getting on a bit though so it might be easier to live with than the Elise, but still offer great handling, much better performance and a much nicer sounding engine. I am however a little concerned that it might be seriously expensive to run, can anyone confirm or deny? I accept that cars like this are not generally cheap to run and have accounted for this but it has to be within reason.
Also, Boxsters are cheaper and convertible which might make for a more involving drive with the roof down, although I must admit I massively prefer the look of the Cayman, not that I care what people think but the Boxster does have more of a 'hairdresser' vibe to it.
Wildcards
E46 M3 Already owned an E46, albeit a 328, and found it quite dull, I would imagine this might be the same unless you were on it? Also issues with subframes, M-car running costs and so on, BMWs tend to be fairly high maintenance too.
Z4M Coupe/Roadster Already owned a Z4, 3.0 Si, I can see the M-car would be a better steer, but like the M3 running costs will be high, I also didn't think the Z4 was a great handling car. Struggling to find Coupes for £15k these days.
Monaro VXR I can see the appeal of that big V8 engine, but its absolutely huge and to me it just looks like a Vectra on steroids, both inside and out.
Mk3.5 MX5 with some BBR fettling Can probably get one well within budget, and with some tuning, quite a fast car, and reasonably comfortable to boot. Turbo ones would be seriously quick cars. However, I've had a pair of Mk1s so maybe it's not going to feel special enough?
S2000 I do quite like these, great engines, but from what I've heard the handling isn't great, nor is the steering, and they are quite expensive these days, although within budget.
Megane RS I have always liked the look of these and people do sing their praises, but it seems daft to go to this from another FWD car, considering my Mini already has sorted handling and ride and punchy performance.
GT86 Can get one for less, and they do seem like they would be fun, but I'm slightly put off by tales of the engine being a bit crap, and I'm not totally sold on the looks, and its the sort of car you could modify but easily make it worse.
370Z Having already had a 350Z, I kind of know what to expect with this one. Very much GT cars, that make a very nice noise when lightly modded. Is the 370Z much better than a 350Z? Certainly Chris Harris didn't gel with it and preferred the '86 and Cayman S.
Any thoughts on the above, have I missed anything?
This year I was going to be made redundant, but I've managed to land a new role and am fortunate to be getting a nice pay increase as a result. With that in mind, considering I've had a pretty awful last couple of years, and the fact I'm not getting any younger, I feel like treating myself with some of the extra money, once I'm through the probation period anyway. Apart from cars I don't really have any other hobbies unless you count buying gadgets as a hobby.
While I would not rule out a car I've had before, I would probably prefer to try something new. In the past I've owned a Clio 172 (Ph1) and Clio 182, DC2 Integra R and FN2 Civic R, BMW 328 (E36 and E46) and Z4 Coupe 3.0 Si, 350Z Roadster, MR2 Turbo and Roadster, two Mk1 MX5s, Mk2 Golf GTI, and a few more besides that were mostly sheds.
Any car I get does not have to be particularly practical, but will have to live outside. It will be mostly used for road driving and will likely only rarely see a track. I live in the North East, so I have plenty of good, albeit quite potholed roads around these parts on my doorstep. I've been thinking about the following cars:-
Lotus Elise S2 / Vauxhall VX220
These have been a bit of a bucket list car for me, and while I've had the chance to own them in the past, I've always bottled out and went for something more practical / less raw. I'm slightly concerned that they are quite expensive for what they are, and that it wouldn't be much better than an MR2 Roadster I could pick up for £2k... that said, I've watched videos online for hours and most of the journos and youtubers rave about them, and I must admit, they do look *really* good fun even just watching them in a video.
I was also worried that 120 bhp wouldn't be enough in one of these, but I am assured that it's not the case and that the K-series is a lovely linear engine. However, there are other options, such as the VX220 if this was the case. A turbo is just about doable for £15k, and I'm sure that wont be short of performance, it'll probably be the fastest accelerating car I've owned. A supercharged 2.2 or one with ITBs on it I wouldn't rule out.
That said though, I much prefer the S2 Elise to look at. I would certainly consider a 111R but it seems unlikely to find one for less than 20k which puts the monthlies up by a significant amount, so I wonder whether it would be worth paying the extra for.
I am also a little concerned it might be harsh and uncomfortable, but I understand it's more that they're just noisy than anything else?
It is however, likely to be the most raw, connected, visceral driving experience I'm likely to get and when I saw on the other thread people singing their praises and one poster even suggesting it was the best driving experience for £100k or less, it does make me wonder if I *need* to try one.
TVR Chimaera / Griffith
My budget would probably stretch to a Chim. A completely different proposition to an Elise certainly. I feel like I would be buying this car mainly for the engine and character of the thing. I've never had a V8 engined car before, and I must admit, they always sound absolutely awesome.
I would imagine unlike an Elise, in this I'm guessing you wouldn't attack B-roads so much as have a more chilled out driving style and enjoy blasts of torque from the big V8 on the straights, which I'm sure makes every drive an event.
That said though they seem quite high maintenance from what I can tell and I'm sure it would cost significantly more to run than an Elise/VX.
Porsche Cayman S
I've not owned a Porsche before, and I have heard really good things about the Cayman. It offers that same MRWD handling balance as the Elise but with a bit luxury added in. There may be times when we would like to go on a road trip and I would imagine it will be much more pleasant than in an Elise, but ultimately, this would be less than 10% of my use.
I am getting on a bit though so it might be easier to live with than the Elise, but still offer great handling, much better performance and a much nicer sounding engine. I am however a little concerned that it might be seriously expensive to run, can anyone confirm or deny? I accept that cars like this are not generally cheap to run and have accounted for this but it has to be within reason.
Also, Boxsters are cheaper and convertible which might make for a more involving drive with the roof down, although I must admit I massively prefer the look of the Cayman, not that I care what people think but the Boxster does have more of a 'hairdresser' vibe to it.
Wildcards
E46 M3 Already owned an E46, albeit a 328, and found it quite dull, I would imagine this might be the same unless you were on it? Also issues with subframes, M-car running costs and so on, BMWs tend to be fairly high maintenance too.
Z4M Coupe/Roadster Already owned a Z4, 3.0 Si, I can see the M-car would be a better steer, but like the M3 running costs will be high, I also didn't think the Z4 was a great handling car. Struggling to find Coupes for £15k these days.
Monaro VXR I can see the appeal of that big V8 engine, but its absolutely huge and to me it just looks like a Vectra on steroids, both inside and out.
Mk3.5 MX5 with some BBR fettling Can probably get one well within budget, and with some tuning, quite a fast car, and reasonably comfortable to boot. Turbo ones would be seriously quick cars. However, I've had a pair of Mk1s so maybe it's not going to feel special enough?
S2000 I do quite like these, great engines, but from what I've heard the handling isn't great, nor is the steering, and they are quite expensive these days, although within budget.
Megane RS I have always liked the look of these and people do sing their praises, but it seems daft to go to this from another FWD car, considering my Mini already has sorted handling and ride and punchy performance.
GT86 Can get one for less, and they do seem like they would be fun, but I'm slightly put off by tales of the engine being a bit crap, and I'm not totally sold on the looks, and its the sort of car you could modify but easily make it worse.
370Z Having already had a 350Z, I kind of know what to expect with this one. Very much GT cars, that make a very nice noise when lightly modded. Is the 370Z much better than a 350Z? Certainly Chris Harris didn't gel with it and preferred the '86 and Cayman S.
Any thoughts on the above, have I missed anything?
TameRacingDriver said:
I'm slightly concerned that they are quite expensive for what they are, and that it wouldn't be much better than an MR2 Roadster I could pick up for £2k
Drive one and you'll realise that they're infinitely more capable than 99% of any other car on the road. Their performance, their handling and their value for money are simply untouchable. TRD, given your car & post history I'd say the Elise/VX is calling! You know light cars and the 'discomfort' is familiar to you.
Chim is a good call by contrast, for the drama of that big engine and a spaceship cockpit.
Cayman would do well in the NE countryside, especially as you're getting older
if you happy getting in & out of the Elise though, it's the one.
The wildcards don't look credible apart from a really fettled mx5. with more power and good suspension it would still look girly, but still be a fantastic drive
Chim is a good call by contrast, for the drama of that big engine and a spaceship cockpit.
Cayman would do well in the NE countryside, especially as you're getting older
if you happy getting in & out of the Elise though, it's the one.
The wildcards don't look credible apart from a really fettled mx5. with more power and good suspension it would still look girly, but still be a fantastic drive
I’ve got a Cerbera and an S1 Elise and both are utterly wonderful machines. Absolute chalk and cheese, yes, so you’d need to think about what you want but for the experience they provide I’d say you need either a Lotus or a TVR. How many Caysters have you seen in the last seven days compared with either of those? For a fun car you want the event factor. Worst case, sell it for no loss and get something else.
oceanview said:
People always say about the Nissan 370Z but i think its a blancmange of a car that it's more sorted to GT work- even What Car gave it low stars!
The 370Z isn't great at anything to be fair, but it does offer a bit of character I reckon. I really like the older school charm of it. The 370Z is a step on from the 350Z it's still errs on the side of GT rather than Sportscar (but then there's a lot on your list that isn't sportscar) but it is an entertaining steer. In reality you'd need to go for the Nismo to hit the sportscar criteria.
GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104231...
Nismo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104111...
Despite the short travel suspension the Z4M could be what you're looking for, with a lower bork/maintenance cost than the Porsche.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102078...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164868946589?hash=item2...
2.9 Boxster (less chance of borkage)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105052...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103230...
If you don't mind a GT then the SLK55 AMG is a compelling buy:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104050...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105122...
GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104231...
Nismo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104111...
Despite the short travel suspension the Z4M could be what you're looking for, with a lower bork/maintenance cost than the Porsche.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102078...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164868946589?hash=item2...
2.9 Boxster (less chance of borkage)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105052...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103230...
If you don't mind a GT then the SLK55 AMG is a compelling buy:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104050...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105122...
Cheers guys.
Must admit, finding myself drawn more strongly towards the Elise and Cayman than the TVR in all honesty. I do like the idea of that big V8, but I'm not totally sold on the looks of the Chim personally, and the other two probably suit my driving style better.
So the question has to be whether to go for the raw little Lotus or go with the more luxurious Porsche. Though one thing to consider is I could also plump for the Boxster 986 3.2 S and save myself a few quid, always an option (after just spotting a readers cars feature just now in GG).
The other question on my mind is if I did go for the Elise/VX, which variant? Personally, it sounds to me like the 111S might be the best option for the road, but I think these are generally closer to 20k. The 111R, likewise @ 20k - I like a good high revving motor, but have always felt they make you drive like a cock
To be honest, I'm drawn to the K-series more than the Toyota engined cars, just seem to be more in keeping with the car, more linear, and probably a bit more torquey low down. On the VX side, I think I could only plump for the 2.2 if it was modded, as I have heard the standard engine is a bit dull. The Turbo is an interesting proposition, getting a LOT of performance for your money, but then I prefer the looks of the Lotus.
Must admit, finding myself drawn more strongly towards the Elise and Cayman than the TVR in all honesty. I do like the idea of that big V8, but I'm not totally sold on the looks of the Chim personally, and the other two probably suit my driving style better.
So the question has to be whether to go for the raw little Lotus or go with the more luxurious Porsche. Though one thing to consider is I could also plump for the Boxster 986 3.2 S and save myself a few quid, always an option (after just spotting a readers cars feature just now in GG).
The other question on my mind is if I did go for the Elise/VX, which variant? Personally, it sounds to me like the 111S might be the best option for the road, but I think these are generally closer to 20k. The 111R, likewise @ 20k - I like a good high revving motor, but have always felt they make you drive like a cock
To be honest, I'm drawn to the K-series more than the Toyota engined cars, just seem to be more in keeping with the car, more linear, and probably a bit more torquey low down. On the VX side, I think I could only plump for the 2.2 if it was modded, as I have heard the standard engine is a bit dull. The Turbo is an interesting proposition, getting a LOT of performance for your money, but then I prefer the looks of the Lotus.ZX10R NIN said:
Stuff
If I went for the 370Z it would definitely have to be a Nismo I think. But I don't think I will go down that route.Never realised the 2.9 Porsche is a safer buy, so I may add this to the shortlist, although I have a feeling it might lack the pace I would expect from a Porsche, although in the real world, it doesn't matter too much, but its more the sensation of speed that I would be after.
The AMG Merc is an interesting proposition, though I've always associated AMG with ruinous running costs?
TameRacingDriver said:
If I went for the 370Z it would definitely have to be a Nismo I think. But I don't think I will go down that route.
Never realised the 2.9 Porsche is a safer buy, so I may add this to the shortlist, although I have a feeling it might lack the pace I would expect from a Porsche, although in the real world, it doesn't matter too much, but its more the sensation of speed that I would be after.
The AMG Merc is an interesting proposition, though I've always associated AMG with ruinous running costs?
The 2.9 doesn't lack pace it's only 40bhp down on the 3.4 Cayman & real world I don't think you'll feel robbed when you're driving.Never realised the 2.9 Porsche is a safer buy, so I may add this to the shortlist, although I have a feeling it might lack the pace I would expect from a Porsche, although in the real world, it doesn't matter too much, but its more the sensation of speed that I would be after.
The AMG Merc is an interesting proposition, though I've always associated AMG with ruinous running costs?
The SLK55 is far from ruinous I'd say overall it would be cheaper than the Cayman to run, the spark plug change isn't cheap (there are 16 of them) but if you're handy with the spanners it's a diy job.
Apart from that it's a simple car.
ZX10R NIN said:
The SLK55 is far from ruinous I'd say overall it would be cheaper than the Cayman to run, the spark plug change isn't cheap (there are 16 of them) but if you're handy with the spanners it's a diy job.
.
a man who misses his old MR2 while driving an old R53 is unlikely to choose an SLK I think. .
at least a Cayman feels alive.
S2000 maybe.
CABC said:
ZX10R NIN said:
The SLK55 is far from ruinous I'd say overall it would be cheaper than the Cayman to run, the spark plug change isn't cheap (there are 16 of them) but if you're handy with the spanners it's a diy job.
.
a man who misses his old MR2 while driving an old R53 is unlikely to choose an SLK I think. .
at least a Cayman feels alive.
S2000 maybe.
At the moment, I just seem to be reading about Elises, so maybe that is a sign. Starting to think something like the 111S would be a good compromise. The 111R is tempting but I reckon because of the power delivery, I'm likely to want to drive it like a loon. I quite like cars where you don't feel as though you have to watch the rev counter constantly, the on/off nature of the 111R means I'll either be trying to stay under the cam change or over it, with little in between, if my experience of Type-R's are anything to go by. Same concern also applies to the S2000. I'm going off the VX220 idea because I think [bespoke] parts supply could be an issue both in cost and availability.
Still wont rule out the Porsches, seem a lot of car for the money.
I bought a 2.9 Cayman last September and I absolutely love it.
To compare to both our car histories... I owed my Integra for 5 years, absolutely loved it in hindsight and haven't owned a car for more than 18 months since then as I've not bonded with any of them (including a JCW Mini (great fun but slightly yobbish), 3.0 Z4 (silky smooth 6 cylinder but lacked steering feel) and an S2000 (VTEC! Great gearbox, felt tinny, never found the right driving position and always felt a bit skittish). All had great aspects but none were the complete package.
I really feel like the Cayman could be a long term keeper and would strongly recommend a test drive in one, or a Boxster if budget doesn't stretch.
Just like the Teg it is fast enough and you can wring it's neck without losing your licence, has great steering feedback, a solid gear change but also has the benefit of a great 6 cylinder soundtrack right behind your head!
I upgraded a few bits of trim in the cabin as well and it's a really nice place to spend a few hours driving about.
To compare to both our car histories... I owed my Integra for 5 years, absolutely loved it in hindsight and haven't owned a car for more than 18 months since then as I've not bonded with any of them (including a JCW Mini (great fun but slightly yobbish), 3.0 Z4 (silky smooth 6 cylinder but lacked steering feel) and an S2000 (VTEC! Great gearbox, felt tinny, never found the right driving position and always felt a bit skittish). All had great aspects but none were the complete package.
I really feel like the Cayman could be a long term keeper and would strongly recommend a test drive in one, or a Boxster if budget doesn't stretch.
Just like the Teg it is fast enough and you can wring it's neck without losing your licence, has great steering feedback, a solid gear change but also has the benefit of a great 6 cylinder soundtrack right behind your head!
I upgraded a few bits of trim in the cabin as well and it's a really nice place to spend a few hours driving about.
doogle83 said:
I bought a 2.9 Cayman last September and I absolutely love it.
To compare to both our car histories... I owed my Integra for 5 years, absolutely loved it in hindsight and haven't owned a car for more than 18 months since then as I've not bonded with any of them (including a JCW Mini (great fun but slightly yobbish), 3.0 Z4 (silky smooth 6 cylinder but lacked steering feel) and an S2000 (VTEC! Great gearbox, felt tinny, never found the right driving position and always felt a bit skittish). All had great aspects but none were the complete package.
I really feel like the Cayman could be a long term keeper and would strongly recommend a test drive in one, or a Boxster if budget doesn't stretch.
Just like the Teg it is fast enough and you can wring it's neck without losing your licence, has great steering feedback, a solid gear change but also has the benefit of a great 6 cylinder soundtrack right behind your head!
I upgraded a few bits of trim in the cabin as well and it's a really nice place to spend a few hours driving about.
Interesting, thanks for your impressions To compare to both our car histories... I owed my Integra for 5 years, absolutely loved it in hindsight and haven't owned a car for more than 18 months since then as I've not bonded with any of them (including a JCW Mini (great fun but slightly yobbish), 3.0 Z4 (silky smooth 6 cylinder but lacked steering feel) and an S2000 (VTEC! Great gearbox, felt tinny, never found the right driving position and always felt a bit skittish). All had great aspects but none were the complete package.
I really feel like the Cayman could be a long term keeper and would strongly recommend a test drive in one, or a Boxster if budget doesn't stretch.
Just like the Teg it is fast enough and you can wring it's neck without losing your licence, has great steering feedback, a solid gear change but also has the benefit of a great 6 cylinder soundtrack right behind your head!
I upgraded a few bits of trim in the cabin as well and it's a really nice place to spend a few hours driving about.
While I love the idea of the focused Elise, the sweet handling Porsche and the luxury that comes with it is an appealing package.I have the other thread looking for a 10-15k hot hatch. I also have an r53, mine is standard apart from r56 front brakes, i love it and think its great fun although i know what you mean sometimes it feels a bit too grippy and a little more rear end adjustability would be nice.
Anyway i have spent a lot of time looking at the classifieds recently. As you do, a 5 door hatch search quickly goes off topic😉. So I have noticed that boxsters are great value at the moment, in a market that is quite over priced for alot of things. If i didn't need rear seats i would buy a boxster s.
An r53 and boxster s would be a fantastic combination!
Maybe i don't need that practical hatch after all😂.
Anyway i have spent a lot of time looking at the classifieds recently. As you do, a 5 door hatch search quickly goes off topic😉. So I have noticed that boxsters are great value at the moment, in a market that is quite over priced for alot of things. If i didn't need rear seats i would buy a boxster s.
An r53 and boxster s would be a fantastic combination!
Maybe i don't need that practical hatch after all😂.
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