FOS "Escalations team" - anyone familiar with process?
Discussion
Hi folks,
To summarise I'm about 8 months into an Ombudsman complaint against the finance company for my motorbike - brief history of complaint if anyone is interested in the timelines/stages I've been through:
May 2020 - Issue was raised with dealer with corrosion (5k mile/18 month old vehicle) - refused warranty repair as corrosion specifically excluded
May 2020 - Complained to dealer & finance company that vehicle not sufficiently durable
July 2020 - complaint not upheld by finance company and final decision letter received
July 2020 - Raised complaint with financial ombudsman service that vehicle not sufficiently durable
Sept 2020 - FOS started investigating (and note that the finance company took 3 months to supply any information) - I also got an independent opinion
Jan 2021 - finance company claimed as independent expert was not VAT registered it didn't accept their evidence - this is the last response the FOS has had from the finance company from what I'm aware
Feb 2021 - 1st investigator review issued - remedy was repair - 2 weeks for finance company to accept/reject became 4 weeks, then 6 weeks - no response
April 2021 - 2nd review by investigator - remedy is now rejection & return deposit (based on cost estimate I got from the dealer, more to repair than value of vehicle) 6 weeks now since they asked for accept/reject from finance company
So since Jan no response (even to the first view to accept or reject) - I asked for escalation to an Ombudsman in March so I can get an enforceable decision as I had thought lack of response meant the finance company didn't agree with the investigator, but view that with a 3>6 month queue it's better to give the finance company time to respond.....
I was also told that the process is to give a company 6 weeks to respond to each investigator review before they then can pass it to an "Escalation Team" that deals with the big finance companies
It's now been 2 weeks since passing to this team so wondering should I:
a. Just sit it out, and face the real possibility of still having to sit in a queue for an Ombudsman
b. Try and insist that it's referred to an Ombudsman now and enter the queue anyway
If anyone has experience of the financial ombudsman service, and what this escalation team might be about then let me know! It's not mentioned in any of their official process documents e.t.c.
To summarise I'm about 8 months into an Ombudsman complaint against the finance company for my motorbike - brief history of complaint if anyone is interested in the timelines/stages I've been through:
May 2020 - Issue was raised with dealer with corrosion (5k mile/18 month old vehicle) - refused warranty repair as corrosion specifically excluded
May 2020 - Complained to dealer & finance company that vehicle not sufficiently durable
July 2020 - complaint not upheld by finance company and final decision letter received
July 2020 - Raised complaint with financial ombudsman service that vehicle not sufficiently durable
Sept 2020 - FOS started investigating (and note that the finance company took 3 months to supply any information) - I also got an independent opinion
Jan 2021 - finance company claimed as independent expert was not VAT registered it didn't accept their evidence - this is the last response the FOS has had from the finance company from what I'm aware
Feb 2021 - 1st investigator review issued - remedy was repair - 2 weeks for finance company to accept/reject became 4 weeks, then 6 weeks - no response
April 2021 - 2nd review by investigator - remedy is now rejection & return deposit (based on cost estimate I got from the dealer, more to repair than value of vehicle) 6 weeks now since they asked for accept/reject from finance company
So since Jan no response (even to the first view to accept or reject) - I asked for escalation to an Ombudsman in March so I can get an enforceable decision as I had thought lack of response meant the finance company didn't agree with the investigator, but view that with a 3>6 month queue it's better to give the finance company time to respond.....
I was also told that the process is to give a company 6 weeks to respond to each investigator review before they then can pass it to an "Escalation Team" that deals with the big finance companies
It's now been 2 weeks since passing to this team so wondering should I:
a. Just sit it out, and face the real possibility of still having to sit in a queue for an Ombudsman
b. Try and insist that it's referred to an Ombudsman now and enter the queue anyway
If anyone has experience of the financial ombudsman service, and what this escalation team might be about then let me know! It's not mentioned in any of their official process documents e.t.c.
1. Did you pay anything towards the cost of the purchase by card (credit or debit)?
2. Who's opinion have you sort? Are they a recognised expert who can compile a legally structured report? The report would normally explain who they are and on what basis they are an expert?
3. The FOS have no powers to enforce.
4. Was this bike new when you purchased it or 5k miles/18 months old?
2. Who's opinion have you sort? Are they a recognised expert who can compile a legally structured report? The report would normally explain who they are and on what basis they are an expert?
3. The FOS have no powers to enforce.
4. Was this bike new when you purchased it or 5k miles/18 months old?
cts1975 said:
1. Did you pay anything towards the cost of the purchase by card (credit or debit)?
2. Who's opinion have you sort? Are they a recognised expert who can compile a legally structured report? The report would normally explain who they are and on what basis they are an expert?
3. The FOS have no powers to enforce.
4. Was this bike new when you purchased it or 5k miles/18 months old?
Hi,2. Who's opinion have you sort? Are they a recognised expert who can compile a legally structured report? The report would normally explain who they are and on what basis they are an expert?
3. The FOS have no powers to enforce.
4. Was this bike new when you purchased it or 5k miles/18 months old?
answers are:
1. yes - deposit on credit card and confirmed FOS can investigate as it's also on personal finance
2. local independent vehicle paint specialist - already interviewed by the FOS investigator and determined their report stands (i.e. poor quality application)
3. correct, sorry should have been clearer - if no acceptance by finance company I'll then enforce Ombudsman decision through the courts
4. Correct, brand new to me and value around £15k - it was 5k miles/18 months old when I raised the issue with supplying dealer
lard said:
Hi,
answers are:
1. yes - deposit on credit card and confirmed FOS can investigate as it's also on personal finance
2. local independent vehicle paint specialist - already interviewed by the FOS investigator and determined their report stands (i.e. poor quality application)
3. correct, sorry should have been clearer - if no acceptance by finance company I'll then enforce Ombudsman decision through the courts
4. Correct, brand new to me and value around £15k - it was 5k miles/18 months old when I raised the issue with supplying dealer
1. If you paid more than £100 by credit card then contact the credit card company and explain the situation and ask them to send you relevant forms for a 'Section 75 Charge Back/Refund'. They may stall you as they are giving retailer more time due to covid but insist on starting the claim. If the card is debit then you have less protection but still they may be able to assist.answers are:
1. yes - deposit on credit card and confirmed FOS can investigate as it's also on personal finance
2. local independent vehicle paint specialist - already interviewed by the FOS investigator and determined their report stands (i.e. poor quality application)
3. correct, sorry should have been clearer - if no acceptance by finance company I'll then enforce Ombudsman decision through the courts
4. Correct, brand new to me and value around £15k - it was 5k miles/18 months old when I raised the issue with supplying dealer
2. The local paint guy isn't a legal expert I'm guessing. So you need somebody like http://www.feaengineering.co.uk/ I've used him 3 times and been successful on 3 occasions. He's based in Wirral so may be to far depending on your location.
3. Swerve the Ombudsman - stick to a small claim process.
You can try Dean at https://www.smallclaimsassistance.co.uk or David at https://smallclaimsadvisor.co.uk/
4. Good. If it was used then it dilutes your claim a little. The dealer could argue the corrosion was on the bike when you inspected it etc.
I would try option 1 first until exhausted and then move on to experts report and small claims. You can start the small claims yourself but for the sake of £70 it's easier and safer to get one of the above. If it ends up in court then you will not get any costs back. If the dealer settles before court then you can negotiate the costs within the settlement. I've never been more than £100 out of pocket and I've done this numerous times over the last 15 years or so.
Good luck and keep the thread updated!
thanks for the advice - really appreciate it!
For now I'm letting the Ombudsman process reach it's conclusion, I've had a good experience with them in the past but if I start court proceedings they stop being involved, to date they have been fair and reasonable, but do think that they've given the finance company far too much allowance for delays on something that should be sorted by either accepting the findings, or not, it's the lack of any engagement that's really frustrating
appreciate the recommendation for report, in the early days those companies I did contact advised they'd need to dismantle the engine to check for corrosion from the inside, something that completely invalidates the warranty at the time (not that a warranty counted for much!) - recommendation was from the investigator to use a local garage / specialist which was much easier to arrange
Will definitely advise how it goes, fingers crossed this new escalation team can actually get a response from them!
For now I'm letting the Ombudsman process reach it's conclusion, I've had a good experience with them in the past but if I start court proceedings they stop being involved, to date they have been fair and reasonable, but do think that they've given the finance company far too much allowance for delays on something that should be sorted by either accepting the findings, or not, it's the lack of any engagement that's really frustrating
appreciate the recommendation for report, in the early days those companies I did contact advised they'd need to dismantle the engine to check for corrosion from the inside, something that completely invalidates the warranty at the time (not that a warranty counted for much!) - recommendation was from the investigator to use a local garage / specialist which was much easier to arrange
Will definitely advise how it goes, fingers crossed this new escalation team can actually get a response from them!
well - seems I've managed to make more progress in a day than the "escalations team" at the ombudsman has in 2 weeks!
Rang the finance company to ask why they aren't talking to the FOS - was told they hadn't received the 2nd view of the complaint, was not a happy bunny as this was sent to them on 1st April ... to be fair, emailed the investigator and 30 mins later they'd resent their 2nd view to finance co - called up a few hours later and they have now confirmed received (advising rejection of the bike)
Can't believe the finance company, 5 months they've done nothing, they blamed staff handover processes so I suspect the complaints handler at finance co left and a mailbox has just been filling up and nothing happening.....
Rang the finance company to ask why they aren't talking to the FOS - was told they hadn't received the 2nd view of the complaint, was not a happy bunny as this was sent to them on 1st April ... to be fair, emailed the investigator and 30 mins later they'd resent their 2nd view to finance co - called up a few hours later and they have now confirmed received (advising rejection of the bike)
Can't believe the finance company, 5 months they've done nothing, they blamed staff handover processes so I suspect the complaints handler at finance co left and a mailbox has just been filling up and nothing happening.....
Well - something must have kicked in as got the call today - finance company have accepted the ombudsman view!
They now have to take back the bike, cancel the finance and refund my deposit (plus 8%)
so it's taken a year pretty much from being told that corrosion wasn't covered under warranty by the dealer, to the finance company being told to reject the vehicle and them agreeing
so happy days - let's see how long it takes them to go and do what they should!
Tomorrow I'll call the finance company, un-insure it and tell them to get their bike off my property
They now have to take back the bike, cancel the finance and refund my deposit (plus 8%)
so it's taken a year pretty much from being told that corrosion wasn't covered under warranty by the dealer, to the finance company being told to reject the vehicle and them agreeing
so happy days - let's see how long it takes them to go and do what they should!
Tomorrow I'll call the finance company, un-insure it and tell them to get their bike off my property
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