Garage makes potentially lethal error.
Discussion
A couple of months ago I had a local garage do some suspension work on one of my cars, including replacement of the track rod ends (which connect the steering rack to the hub carrier). It then went to the nearby tyre place for full alignment.
This morning, my fiance limps the car back home as the steering "feels weird and it's making a rumbling sound". Fortunately she's only made it a few hundred yards before coming back.
One wheel is visibly pointing the wrong way and the steering is all over the effing place. I've jacked it up for a look and, as soon as the suspension has dropped, the track rod end pops straight out of the hub carrier. It's missing a washer and consequently the securing nut has simply been able to work its way through the hole in the hub carrier. It must have been hanging on by the last few mm of the thread jammed at a wonky angle into the hub carrier.
Other side is exactly the same. There should be a washer, or some sort of steel insert, to prevent this from happening.
Now I'm absolutely incensed at this. We were unbelievably f
king lucky here. That could have failed at any time, at any speed. Imagine one wheel becoming disconnected from the steering at 60mph on a busy road. I'm trying not to, she ferries our daughter about in that car and the potential consequences are horrifying.
What I want to do, of course, is march round to the last place that worked on it (the tracking place, they'll have had the rod ends off to adjust based on a wrong assumption of mine, put straight by PH, thanks! 
) and beat the living daylights out of whoever worked on the thing. However, that's not going to do anyone any favours.
Dismissing that course of action as idiotic (although doubtless most satisfying, at least in the short term...!), what can I do here? I can't actually prove that it was the tracking place that assembled it wrongly in the first place, they might have just received it that way from the garage who did the repairs and reassambled the same way. Although anyone with even a shred of mechanical competence should have realised that it was wrong.
I suspect the answer will be that I can prove nowt therefore I can do nowt. And to be fair, the last thing I want it to let the same lot have another crack at the car - I'll sort that myself and get the tracking done somewhere else. And double check every last fastener afterward.
Interested to hear any thoughts on this.
This morning, my fiance limps the car back home as the steering "feels weird and it's making a rumbling sound". Fortunately she's only made it a few hundred yards before coming back.
One wheel is visibly pointing the wrong way and the steering is all over the effing place. I've jacked it up for a look and, as soon as the suspension has dropped, the track rod end pops straight out of the hub carrier. It's missing a washer and consequently the securing nut has simply been able to work its way through the hole in the hub carrier. It must have been hanging on by the last few mm of the thread jammed at a wonky angle into the hub carrier.
Other side is exactly the same. There should be a washer, or some sort of steel insert, to prevent this from happening.
Now I'm absolutely incensed at this. We were unbelievably f
king lucky here. That could have failed at any time, at any speed. Imagine one wheel becoming disconnected from the steering at 60mph on a busy road. I'm trying not to, she ferries our daughter about in that car and the potential consequences are horrifying.What I want to do, of course, is march round to the last place that worked on it (
) and beat the living daylights out of whoever worked on the thing. However, that's not going to do anyone any favours.Dismissing that course of action as idiotic (although doubtless most satisfying, at least in the short term...!), what can I do here? I can't actually prove that it was the tracking place that assembled it wrongly in the first place, they might have just received it that way from the garage who did the repairs and reassambled the same way. Although anyone with even a shred of mechanical competence should have realised that it was wrong.
I suspect the answer will be that I can prove nowt therefore I can do nowt. And to be fair, the last thing I want it to let the same lot have another crack at the car - I'll sort that myself and get the tracking done somewhere else. And double check every last fastener afterward.
Interested to hear any thoughts on this.
Edited by Jonny_ on Friday 28th May 13:24
Unless it is an odd design that I am not aware of...
The tracking place won't have split the taper or undone the nuts on the trackrod ends. Usually its a lock nut on the rod and this gets twisted without disturbing the ball joint end.
A missing washer also shouldn't let a track rod end 'pull-through'. Sounds like it may be the wrong part.
Photo?
The tracking place won't have split the taper or undone the nuts on the trackrod ends. Usually its a lock nut on the rod and this gets twisted without disturbing the ball joint end.
A missing washer also shouldn't let a track rod end 'pull-through'. Sounds like it may be the wrong part.
Photo?
Pastie Bloater said:
OscarIndia said:
The garage that did the tracking would not have removed the TRE.
They should however have seen the error made by the initial garage.
Your main beef is with the first garage.
Gonna second this (and the other comments).They should however have seen the error made by the initial garage.
Your main beef is with the first garage.
Thanks all.
Have been doing some digging elsewhere and you're all absolutely right about the toe adjustment, the rod ends don't need to come off. (Went out and checked on the car, the inner rods are free to rotate, every day is a school day!)
Also have discovered that on this particular car there were some with steel hub carriers and others (like mine) with aluminium ones. and that the rod ends for the aluminium carriers should be supplied with a flanged nut.
Have been doing some digging elsewhere and you're all absolutely right about the toe adjustment, the rod ends don't need to come off. (Went out and checked on the car, the inner rods are free to rotate, every day is a school day!)
Also have discovered that on this particular car there were some with steel hub carriers and others (like mine) with aluminium ones. and that the rod ends for the aluminium carriers should be supplied with a flanged nut.
zzrman said:
The OP did say *replacement* of the track rod ends so would this not require the removal of the old TREs and their replacemeent by new TREs.
Yeah by the first garage, OP is incorrectly assuming the subsequent tracking place have also had them undone at the hub end ball joint which they won't (on the upper left).You adjust be undoing the central jam nut and rotating the inner end about its ball joint (see lower right).
If the inner and outer are seized together solid you can undo the hub end to rotate the whole lot but at a couple of months old won't have been necessary.
Track rod ends used to have castellated nuts and cotter pins, now it's nyloc or all metal locking nuts (they're squeezed slightly oval).
Edited by Pastie Bloater on Friday 28th May 11:43
Smells of "wrong part".
Certainly on Alfas, there are an awful number of different tapers - you can get a part that goes in the hole, you tighten the nut up and it feels OK-ish, but it isn't fixed properly. No way should a properly seated taper pull a nut out - the taper is doing all the work, the nut simply pulls the taper tight.
Certainly on Alfas, there are an awful number of different tapers - you can get a part that goes in the hole, you tighten the nut up and it feels OK-ish, but it isn't fixed properly. No way should a properly seated taper pull a nut out - the taper is doing all the work, the nut simply pulls the taper tight.
Agree with other posters, it's the garage who did the replacement that have messed up. The tracking place wouldn't need the taper into the steering arm split for adjustment.
What car is it?
My uncle had this exact same thing happen sometime in the 70s, got home from the garage and as he pulled into the drive, they just dropped off.
What car is it?
My uncle had this exact same thing happen sometime in the 70s, got home from the garage and as he pulled into the drive, they just dropped off.
Jonny_ said:
Thanks all.
Have been doing some digging elsewhere and you're all absolutely right about the toe adjustment, the rod ends don't need to come off. (Went out and checked on the car, the inner rods are free to rotate, every day is a school day!)
Also have discovered that on this particular car there were some with steel hub carriers and others (like mine) with aluminium ones. and that the rod ends for the aluminium carriers should be supplied with a flanged nut.
Could really do with some photos to illustrate. Aluminium hubs don't necessarily need flanged nuts, it varies by supplier.Have been doing some digging elsewhere and you're all absolutely right about the toe adjustment, the rod ends don't need to come off. (Went out and checked on the car, the inner rods are free to rotate, every day is a school day!)
Also have discovered that on this particular car there were some with steel hub carriers and others (like mine) with aluminium ones. and that the rod ends for the aluminium carriers should be supplied with a flanged nut.
The ball joint seat is tapered so there's no way the correct parts could just find their way out through the hole by being loose.
Jonny_ said:
One wheel is visibly pointing the wrong way and the steering is all over the effing place. I've jacked it up for a look and, as soon as the suspension has dropped, the track rod end pops straight out of the hub carrier. It's missing a washer and consequently the securing nut has simply been able to work its way through the hole in the hub carrier. It must have been hanging on by the last few mm of the thread jammed at a wonky angle into the hub carrier.
It almost sounds like they've put the ball joint in upside down / in from the wrong side? 
Imagine I put this one in from the top, a non-flanged nut could dig its way through the tapered hole, which on this one has a ball seat too and not as much taper.
Edited by Pastie Bloater on Friday 28th May 11:59
rxe said:
Smells of "wrong part".
Certainly on Alfas, there are an awful number of different tapers - you can get a part that goes in the hole, you tighten the nut up and it feels OK-ish, but it isn't fixed properly. No way should a properly seated taper pull a nut out - the taper is doing all the work, the nut simply pulls the taper tight.
This too is an Alfa. And it does look like the wrong rod end, apparently there are different variants for cars with steel or aluminium hubs, and the latter are supplied with the larger flanged nut.Certainly on Alfas, there are an awful number of different tapers - you can get a part that goes in the hole, you tighten the nut up and it feels OK-ish, but it isn't fixed properly. No way should a properly seated taper pull a nut out - the taper is doing all the work, the nut simply pulls the taper tight.
Spoke to the tracking place just now and they have confirmed that they don't need to disconnect the rod end from the carrier. So it's down to the garage that did the work in the first place, and also supplied the parts. Will pop the car over there after lunch (with a rather calmer head) once I've reassembled it with some washers to keep the rod ends attached.
Jonny_ said:
Spoke to the tracking place just now and they have confirmed that they don't need to disconnect the rod end from the carrier. So it's down to the garage that did the work in the first place, and also supplied the parts. Will pop the car over there after lunch (with a rather calmer head) once I've reassembled it with some washers to keep the rod ends attached.
You're not going to drive it?I had exactly the same happen in a Ford Escort 25 years ago. Had new TRE fitted, but they fitted the part for a 1990 and mine was a 1991 (or other adjacent years I forget). Easy mistake to make as both had the same reg letter. But one ball was 0.5mm smaller than the other and as I drove up the road got a few hundred yards and the ball popped out the socket and the wheel went into the kerb etc.
Walked back and told them to recover it as it was blocking an A road.
I wasn't insesnsed, just never went there again and, as they stole 90% of my car parking change, told others never to go there too. It's closed a few years later.
Walked back and told them to recover it as it was blocking an A road.
I wasn't insesnsed, just never went there again and, as they stole 90% of my car parking change, told others never to go there too. It's closed a few years later.
Pastie Bloater said:
You're not going to drive it?
Only the half-mile to the garage, with the track rod ends now safely fitted using a pair of sizeable washers, and the Nyloks torqued up properly. Then it's staying there until they've fitted the correct parts and checked over every other fastener that they disturbed when they did the suspension work. (Which I'll then re-check at home, as strangely my faith in anyone else working on my cars has evaporated.)The car is now in a vastly safer condition now than it has been in several weeks, which does not help with the feeling that things could have been a hell of a lot worse.
Oh, almost forgot, photos. Because what good is a thread without photos?
The rod end that had come loose, and popped out when jacked up. Notice the nut right up against the steel insert that normally sits in the top of the mounting hole on the hub carrier.
The other side. Notice how the nut is sitting...
... that's because it's halfway into the hub carrier before it's come up against the end of the top steel insert (see the first pic). And, as the nut itself is smaller than the hole in the hub carrier, it's actually fastening absolutely nothing.
Temporary fix: M12 repair washer plus standard M12 washer to help spread the loading. Not going to be using the car like this, only to get it to the local garage that cocked it up in the first place.
The rod end that had come loose, and popped out when jacked up. Notice the nut right up against the steel insert that normally sits in the top of the mounting hole on the hub carrier.
The other side. Notice how the nut is sitting...
... that's because it's halfway into the hub carrier before it's come up against the end of the top steel insert (see the first pic). And, as the nut itself is smaller than the hole in the hub carrier, it's actually fastening absolutely nothing.
Temporary fix: M12 repair washer plus standard M12 washer to help spread the loading. Not going to be using the car like this, only to get it to the local garage that cocked it up in the first place.
Edited by Jonny_ on Friday 28th May 13:22
Edited by Jonny_ on Friday 28th May 13:34
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