New build house and BT openreach

[Torquey]

Im about to move into a new build house and something that's been urking me is the broadband options.

The developer said because it has an openreach connection (fttp I believe) I must use BT. This will give me around 800mb/sec for a sum of over £50/month I believe.

I am more than happy with my current 35mb/sec Vodafone (fttc) £22 deal though and don't have a need for anything faster or more extensive. Besides I really don't care too much for BT in general.

I expect if I have a copper phone line then I can use Vodafone again. However ive read about new digital phone lines and im guessing it'll have one of these?Am I right thinking you can't get fttc or adsl over a digital phone line? In which case I really am stuck with BT and their +£50 package?

Ive started looking at 4g and 5g wifi/mifi boxes as a fall back.

[NDA]

I am not an expert - however I recently had an FTTP Open Reach installation.

Once you have the connection, you can use anyone you like - it doesn't have to be BT. I chose BT as it happens because they were easier to choose and the pricing was pretty much the same as everyone else. My deal is 50Mbps for £30 a month. Nothing else and inc VAT.

ETA, the new BT routers have a plug for digital (?) phones at the back. Not something I use as I don't use a landline.

[anonymous-user]

We were told the same by openreach and our developer 3 years ago. It's absolute nonsense.

I went with Uno who have been excellent.

You can use voip for a landline equivalent. We have it but couldn't tell you the last time it was used. The alarm just used the data connection for monitoring and police response.

[Blockbuster]

There’s not as much choice as there is with copper lines, but you definitely don’t need to use BT. For example you could use EE, Sky, Zen and some other smaller name internet providers.

[parabolica]

I never used to care for BT’s internet products but my landlord had FTTP installed last year and my 4g broadband was patchy so I took the plunge. Service has been impeccable for 6 months - service hasn’t dropped once and speed is consistent and at the level promised. Would recommend; FTTP seems to be a very stable product for them; friends have normal bb with them and have issues all the time.

[Torquey]

Thanks for the replies. They've put my mind at rest.
Glad to know there are slower/cheaper packages (BTs website only seems to shows post code specific packages ) and that I have more than 1 choice of supplier.

Cheers.

[V6todayTurboManana]

Moved into a new house this month and whilst it had the open reach sockets physically connected (if not provisioned) what surprised me was the cabinet was at capacity in regards to fibre sockets.

Which means no fibre to the cabinet and copper to the house option like the neighbours.

So the only option for now is to use the copper connections, all the way through, estimates at between 4-9MB/sec.

Think my 4g mobile will be faster.

[alorotom]

It depends if/when Openreach open the access to the FTTP cabinets.

We've been in our build 3years now and the only options we had for a domestic connection were BT/Openreach and ZEN. There were a couple of commercial providers but all for BIG money/mth.

Our FTTP lines have now been opened up to other providers including the usual suspects but only in the past 4-5mths

[Sheepshanks]

alorotom said:

It depends if/when Openreach open the access to the FTTP cabinets.

We've been in our build 3years now and the only options we had for a domestic connection were BT/Openreach and ZEN. There were a couple of commercial providers but all for BIG money/mth.

Our FTTP lines have now been opened up to other providers including the usual suspects but only in the past 4-5mths

Isn't there some kind of deal done with developers where BT covers the infrastructure costs in return for exclusivity for a few years?

I'm sure there used to be, although it'd be a surprise if the regulator hasn't jumped on it by now.

[ralphrj]

Sheepshanks said:

alorotom said:

It depends if/when Openreach open the access to the FTTP cabinets.

We've been in our build 3years now and the only options we had for a domestic connection were BT/Openreach and ZEN. There were a couple of commercial providers but all for BIG money/mth.

Our FTTP lines have now been opened up to other providers including the usual suspects but only in the past 4-5mths

Isn't there some kind of deal done with developers where BT covers the infrastructure costs in return for exclusivity for a few years?

I'm sure there used to be, although it'd be a surprise if the regulator hasn't jumped on it by now.

I'm in a new build with FTTP and this sounds similar to what I was told. I think that they can get away with it because the houses also come pre-wired for Virgin fibre so there is a choice of either BT or Virgin (not a great choice).

[quinny100]

Sheepshanks said:

Isn't there some kind of deal done with developers where BT covers the infrastructure costs in return for exclusivity for a few years?

No, there isn't - if it's Openreach infrastructure. Any Communications Provider that is an Openreach customer can access the same services at the same price as any other. That's where the "Open" bit of the name originates. There is no concept of "opening up" cabinets/lines or whatever.

A few other players have has a go with FTTP on new build estates in the past and there was some ISP lock-in, but they have died out now Openreach will deploy at no cost to the developer on sites of 15+ units.

New estates are now fibre only - they do not and will never have copper services installed. Therefore FTTC is not an option.

The reason for the lack of choice for FTTP services on new build estates in areas where there is not a wider FTTP rollout is purely one of commercial viability. It's simply not been worthwhile for the big ISP's to productise FTTP services, update their systems and train their staff when it only serves a handful of customers.

BT Wholesale (BTW) have a policy of being present in every exchange and connecting to every L2S (an L2S is the switch which an FTTC or FTTP connection lands on in the handover exchange) as a matter of course. BT's consumer ISP service is effectively a reseller of BTW products. Other ISP's resell BTW products too, usually where they aren't themselves present in the handover exchange. BTW is a commercial operation who most certainly do not give all of their resellers the same prices! Zen are one of the largest BT Wholesale resellers in the country and so I would assume they have negotiated decent rates on FTTP services and taken the opportunity to resell them early on. I have seen BTW's standard sell prices for FTTP and they are far too dear for residential customers, let alone after the ISP has put a margin on.

As FTTP is becoming ever more ubiquitous the larger ISP's are now offering services because it's worth their while to do so as they stand a reasonable chance of recovering their fixed costs in having additional infrastructure installed within the handover exchanges. There is no conspiracy here, it's purely down to market forces.

Edited by quinny100 on Friday 4th June 16:07

[quinny100]

alorotom said:

It depends if/when Openreach open the access to the FTTP cabinets.

We've been in our build 3years now and the only options we had for a domestic connection were BT/Openreach and ZEN. There were a couple of commercial providers but all for BIG money/mth.

Our FTTP lines have now been opened up to other providers including the usual suspects but only in the past 4-5mths

Can I ask where you got that tale about FTTP lines being "opened up"? I've heard it a few times and it's complete ****ocks but it seems someone out there is perpetuating the myth.

I suspect it's the message one of the big ISP's has told their call handlers to give when a check shows no copper service is available at a property.

[alorotom]

quinny100 said:

alorotom said:

It depends if/when Openreach open the access to the FTTP cabinets.

We've been in our build 3years now and the only options we had for a domestic connection were BT/Openreach and ZEN. There were a couple of commercial providers but all for BIG money/mth.

Our FTTP lines have now been opened up to other providers including the usual suspects but only in the past 4-5mths

Can I ask where you got that tale about FTTP lines being "opened up"? I've heard it a few times and it's complete ****ocks but it seems someone out there is perpetuating the myth.

I suspect it's the message one of the big ISP's has told their call handlers to give when a check shows no copper service is available at a property.

Developers told me when I was building / buying

Openreach told me when they fitted the fibre from the street to the house

BT told me when I took a contract out with them

A raft of other suppliers told me when I rang to get a quote for service - none of whom could provide it for the above reason/rationale

No one on our estate has been able to get service with any provider outside of BT/Zen until Feb-21… some people had lived on the estate for over 5yrs

[Sheepshanks]

I guess it's just a generic term that's come from Local Loop Unbundling where exchanges were opened up to other ISP's kit.

I've no idea how it works when it's fibre all the way - does the same requirement for local hardware not exist, so it's more like choosing a gas or electric supplier?

[colin79666]

You are lucky to have Openreach. My estate is stuck with OFNL/IFNL. Service has been fine but no real competition (a handful of ISPs no-one has heard of) so prices aren't great.

At least with FTTP you don't have to take a phone plan (usually). I've gone down the route of sipgate and a grand Central ata. Result being not having to pay around £5 for a phone service I rarely use but still have a landline number on the occasion I want it and very cheap calls.

[stevoknevo]

I moved into a brand new property last month with FTTP, I went with BT as I've had zero issues with them previously - had an issue whereby the developers gave out the wrong postcode and it wasn't live, BT worked around it then sorted everything out when we received the correct postcode, can't fault their CS staff. I was going to go for the fibre 2 package 74mb/20 at £32.99, however called them and was offered 150/30 £35pm with half price for first three months - worked out £4 cheaper over the contract for twice the speed, apart from a 10 day wait for connection, it's been rock solid and I get 140+mb on WiFi.

[bimsb6]

alorotom said:

quinny100 said:

alorotom said:

It depends if/when Openreach open the access to the FTTP cabinets.

We've been in our build 3years now and the only options we had for a domestic connection were BT/Openreach and ZEN. There were a couple of commercial providers but all for BIG money/mth.

Our FTTP lines have now been opened up to other providers including the usual suspects but only in the past 4-5mths

Can I ask where you got that tale about FTTP lines being "opened up"? I've heard it a few times and it's complete ****ocks but it seems someone out there is perpetuating the myth.

I suspect it's the message one of the big ISP's has told their call handlers to give when a check shows no copper service is available at a property.

Developers told me when I was building / buying

Openreach told me when they fitted the fibre from the street to the house

BT told me when I took a contract out with them

A raft of other suppliers told me when I rang to get a quote for service - none of whom could provide it for the above reason/rationale

No one on our estate has been able to get service with any provider outside of BT/Zen until Feb-21… some people had lived on the estate for over 5yrs

The misinformation may have come from when other isp’s such as sky and talktalk threw a strop about bt offering fttp services after they had spent a load of cash installing their llu equipment in the exchanges when fttc was deemed the way to go , sky and talktalk wouldn’t sign up to offering fttp services .

[snuffy]

Torquey said:

However ive read about new digital phone lines and im guessing it'll have one of these?Am I right thinking you can't get fttc or adsl over a digital phone line?.

That's because in 2025, the UK's landlines (PSTN) will be turned off. So new builds will not have be having normal phone lines installed.

[bimsb6]

snuffy said:

Torquey said:

However ive read about new digital phone lines and im guessing it'll have one of these?Am I right thinking you can't get fttc or adsl over a digital phone line?.

That's because in 2025, the UK's landlines (PSTN) will be turned off. So new builds will not have be having normal phone lines installed.

Thats the target date , whether that will be met is another matter .

[snuffy]

bimsb6 said:

snuffy said:

Torquey said:

However ive read about new digital phone lines and im guessing it'll have one of these?Am I right thinking you can't get fttc or adsl over a digital phone line?.

That's because in 2025, the UK's landlines (PSTN) will be turned off. So new builds will not have be having normal phone lines installed.

Thats the target date , whether that will be met is another matter .

True.

But what I find very odd is that it's not been advertised. I didn't know myself until this week when I read it in a PC magazine. So if they are to meet that date, Ofcom needs to start telling people in the same way they did when analogue TV was turned off.