Smart Mororway Lane Closures?

[dr_gn]

At what point can you legally/correctly start to use a lane again that’s previously been designated closed (by a Red Cross on the gantry) on a smart motorway?

Thanks.

[Pica-Pica]

You will see either a NSL sign, or an actual speed limit above the lane.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

(You realise you have probably stirred a hornet’s nest here).

Edited by Pica-Pica on Sunday 6th June 20:10

[dr_gn]

Pica-Pica said:

You will see either a NSL sign, or an actual speed limit above the lane.

OK - so driving at the indicated limit of 40 mph in lane 2 of 4, with lane 1 closed, being flashed by tailgaters, undertaken by HGVs on the left in lane 1 at 50/60 mph, and overtaken by cars doing 70 mph in lanes 3 & 4 (because they think they’ve passed the stranded vehicle) is fine until you get to the next NSL gantry?

[donkmeister]

The joy of gantries is that sometimes you pass under one at speed X, then the vehicles behind pass under at speed y. Which means they catch you up. I was on the M25 a few days ago and every gantry seemed to be increasing the limit seconds before I got to it, meaning I caught a lot of people up.

It could have been that on this occasion, you were the caught rather than the catcher-upper.

[Pica-Pica]

dr_gn said:

Pica-Pica said:

You will see either a NSL sign, or an actual speed limit above the lane.

OK - so driving at the indicated limit of 40 mph in lane 2 of 4, with lane 1 closed, being flashed by tailgaters, undertaken by HGVs on the left in lane 1 at 50/60 mph, and overtaken by cars doing 70 mph in lanes 3 & 4 (because they think they’ve passed the stranded vehicle) is fine until you get to the next NSL gantry?

Yes.

[dr_gn]

donkmeister said:

The joy of gantries is that sometimes you pass under one at speed X, then the vehicles behind pass under at speed y. Which means they catch you up. I was on the M25 a few days ago and every gantry seemed to be increasing the limit seconds before I got to it, meaning I caught a lot of people up.

It could have been that on this occasion, you were the caught rather than the catcher-upper.

No - when I said “thought they’d passed the stranded vehicle” they actually hadn’t. There was a car in a lay-by, but there was in fact another car half in lane 1 with police in attendance further along. So the 40 limit was valid all the way as far as I’m aware. I saw two flashes from a camera gantry in the rear mirror too.

[Glenn63]

The problem with these ‘smart’ motorway signs is they are so often wrong that people get fed up and just ignore them all the time. I drive hgv’s at night and often in the middle of the night the signs are up flashing a reduced speed due to ‘congestion’ or ‘queue ahead’ when I’m the only person on the motorway and it’s clear as far as the eye can see. Im forced to reduce speed or il get ticketed, several miles of nothing then and nsl sign. It’s like they are stuck on from rush hour 6 hours before.

[anonymous-user]

Glenn63 said:

the signs are up flashing a reduced speed due to ‘congestion’ or ‘queue ahead’ when I’m the only person on the motorway and it’s clear as far as the eye can see. Im forced to reduce speed or il get ticketed, several miles of nothing then and nsl sign.

I'm pretty sure signs with flashing beacons are advisory only unless flashing red so unsure why you think you would get a ticket unless the reduced speeds are fixed and inside a red ring.

The congestion or queue ahead is fixed as well not flashing surely? I can't remember if they have flashing beacons i didn't think they did.

[dr_gn]

My commute takes me on about 10 miles of smart motorway.

Occasionally there will be a restriction, but then nothing at all on the next gantry, which is confusing.

I do think they can be very dangerous, but then again I’d say most of the time it’s idiot drivers rather than the system itself.

[Glenn63]

speedyguy said:

Glenn63 said:

the signs are up flashing a reduced speed due to ‘congestion’ or ‘queue ahead’ when I’m the only person on the motorway and it’s clear as far as the eye can see. Im forced to reduce speed or il get ticketed, several miles of nothing then and nsl sign.

I'm pretty sure signs with flashing beacons are advisory only unless flashing red so unsure why you think you would get a ticket unless the reduced speeds are fixed and inside a red ring.

The congestion or queue ahead is fixed as well not flashing surely? I can't remember if they have flashing beacons i didn't think they did.

The speed signs are proper red ringed, the sign with the writing saying ‘congestion’ or whatever has amber lights that flash top and bottom. It’s usually the m62 Leeds/Manchester and you certainly will get ticketed as Iv seen them flash and lads at our place have had tickets before.

[98elise]

Glenn63 said:

The problem with these ‘smart’ motorway signs is they are so often wrong that people get fed up and just ignore them all the time. I drive hgv’s at night and often in the middle of the night the signs are up flashing a reduced speed due to ‘congestion’ or ‘queue ahead’ when I’m the only person on the motorway and it’s clear as far as the eye can see. Im forced to reduce speed or il get ticketed, several miles of nothing then and nsl sign. It’s like they are stuck on from rush hour 6 hours before.

When I was doing the M25 each day I saw far more people ignoring legitimate signs (especially red X) than times when the signs were wrong.

[Far Cough]

Glenn63 said:

The problem with these ‘smart’ motorway signs is they are so often wrong that people get fed up and just ignore them all the time. I drive hgv’s at night and often in the middle of the night the signs are up flashing a reduced speed due to ‘congestion’ or ‘queue ahead’ when I’m the only person on the motorway and it’s clear as far as the eye can see. Im forced to reduce speed or il get ticketed, several miles of nothing then and nsl sign. It’s like they are stuck on from rush hour 6 hours before.

This all day long....... and all night long !!! The system is not smart by any means and takes away the common sense approach.

Why is there not a central telephone number to ring to complain or inform them of the cock up ???

[Pica-Pica]

Although the motorway may seem clear, often the reduced speeds are to prevent waves of stop/start queuing & normal speeds.

As discussed before (and Highways England have confirmed) gantry speed cameras only enforce at the NSL or the speed indicated if lower.

[Far Cough]

That may be the case but at 3am when you are the only car for 20 miles and its still showing "Congestion 50mph" its rather frustrating to say the least !

[romeogolf]

Far Cough said:

Why is there not a central telephone number to ring to complain or inform them of the cock up ???

0300 123 5000

[BertBert]

Pica-Pica said:

You will see either a NSL sign, or an actual speed limit above the lane.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

(You realise you have probably stirred a hornet’s nest here).

Edited by Pica-Pica on Sunday 6th June 20:10

That's not quite what that document says, and I don't think that it is correct. Speed limits act in that way, as in once set it, in theory it stays set until it is changed by another speed sign (limit or NSL). I don't think that a red X has the same function, in that it has to be shown over a lane to keep that lane closed.

[Far Cough]

romeogolf said:

0300 123 5000

Tremendous

[No ideas for a name]

BertBert said:

Pica-Pica said:

You will see either a NSL sign, or an actual speed limit above the lane.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

(You realise you have probably stirred a hornet’s nest here).

Edited by Pica-Pica on Sunday 6th June 20:10

That's not quite what that document says, and I don't think that it is correct. Speed limits act in that way, as in once set it, in theory it stays set until it is changed by another speed sign (limit or NSL). I don't think that a red X has the same function, in that it has to be shown over a lane to keep that lane closed.

The document is badly written. I would logically expect that if you reach a later gantry and it doesn't show a red X, then the lane is okay to be used. I treat the red X as virtual cones.

In that document it says "National Speed Limit applies after the incident" - it actually means that is the explaination of the situation shown in the illustration. It doesn't show the situation we are talking about.

Speed limit should stay effective even if the next sign isn't set. However, it is confusing.. I can't see why the successive signs don't still show the active limit. At present you can get a limit shown, then several successive gantries with no illuminated signs, followed some time later by a NSL illuminate - it can be deduced (after the final NSL) that the limit was intended to be active throughout.



As an observation - I came across an interesting one last week M6 just South of Manchester...
1st signs "Obstruction in carriageway with (I think 50 limit)
2nd signs lane 1 closed red X/move right
We then passed a stopped vehicle in one of the refuges, after which many people sped up/returned to lane 1 - only to find lane 1 closed due to a recovery taking place 300m later on.
Nothing wrong with the signage - just drivers being too thick.

[dr_gn]

No ideas for a name said:

BertBert said:

Pica-Pica said:

You will see either a NSL sign, or an actual speed limit above the lane.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

(You realise you have probably stirred a hornet’s nest here).

Edited by Pica-Pica on Sunday 6th June 20:10

That's not quite what that document says, and I don't think that it is correct. Speed limits act in that way, as in once set it, in theory it stays set until it is changed by another speed sign (limit or NSL). I don't think that a red X has the same function, in that it has to be shown over a lane to keep that lane closed.

As an observation - I came across an interesting one last week M6 just South of Manchester...
1st signs "Obstruction in carriageway with (I think 50 limit)
2nd signs lane 1 closed red X/move right
We then passed a stopped vehicle in one of the refuges, after which many people sped up/returned to lane 1 - only to find lane 1 closed due to a recovery taking place 300m later on.
Nothing wrong with the signage - just drivers being too thick.

As per mine - only near Birmingham. Pretty terrifying to be the only car in the vicinity doing 40 in L2 (as instructed), being undertaken and overtaken at 50/60/70 by everyone else. I was waiting for a massive impact, but luckily it didn't happen. I guess if there had been an accident, fingers would be pointed at me for driving too slowly in L2...

[PH4555]

I drive for work, mostly on evenings and nights so usually cop for them laying out the cones for the overnight roadworks. I imagine officially if there's a red speed limit and red x lane closure(s) set on the gantry that it should technically apply until another gantry says differently or a NSL appears, however in around 90% of cases they never come and the only gantry with any restrictions is the first one with the ones after it all being blank. As such, I only bother observing the first one. If there's nothing on the next one then I resume NSL and return to normal lane usage (obviously after checking there's no cone bloke wandering about the road or a stranded level/recovery in action etc).

If a gantry has 40 with no cameras on and then next gantry is a camera one but no limit showing, you are fine to go past it at NSL without it flashing. I've done it 100s of times without issue and I think most other drivers have figured this out as well, but you still get plenty driving at 40 for the next 10 miles of open road, patiently waiting for the NSL symbol which never comes.