Charity question
Discussion
I am a trustee of a charity., and another trustee of another charity has just been onthe phne with a question, that i have no idea about, i did tell him to check with the Commissioners ,but he would like a pretty solid answer asap. but did give him my thoughts
Here is the question
Several years ago a member of the charity donated some goods and this was duly minuted. He was present at the meeting and no stipulations were made as to what we did with them..so far so good
He died 18 months ago and his widow has now Demanded the return of said goods claiming that they were only offered if they were sold to fund another project.there is no record of this only her claim, and as this has not been done she would like them back threatening legal action should they not comply
My view is that they are now the property of the charity and she has no claim on them, , but playing devils advocate did say that if they did return them in order not ti 'rock the boat' it might well open the gates for other relatives of members who have donated money or goods demand the return of cash or items
I think that as it has been minuted, a decent solicitor would tell her she is on a hiding to nothing, but did say IMHO to stall her until they also do some enquiries
If any listees know anything about chairty law, or even civil law on this could they just say who in their opinion has the more solid ground should she go full postal
Here is the question
Several years ago a member of the charity donated some goods and this was duly minuted. He was present at the meeting and no stipulations were made as to what we did with them..so far so good
He died 18 months ago and his widow has now Demanded the return of said goods claiming that they were only offered if they were sold to fund another project.there is no record of this only her claim, and as this has not been done she would like them back threatening legal action should they not comply
My view is that they are now the property of the charity and she has no claim on them, , but playing devils advocate did say that if they did return them in order not ti 'rock the boat' it might well open the gates for other relatives of members who have donated money or goods demand the return of cash or items
I think that as it has been minuted, a decent solicitor would tell her she is on a hiding to nothing, but did say IMHO to stall her until they also do some enquiries
If any listees know anything about chairty law, or even civil law on this could they just say who in their opinion has the more solid ground should she go full postal
Where do the items appear on your accounts? They should distinguish between the different types of funds which are provided to them and the terms by which they were given. Are they shown as part of your unrestricted funds or restricted funds. Wherever the funds were put should have a clear minuted audit trail.
Eric Mc said:
What evidence has the widow got that the goods were donated with the conditions she claims?
NONE
What evidence has the charity got that the goods were donated without any stipulations?
NONE ,EXCEPT THE DONOR WAS AT THE MEETING WHEN THE OFFER WAS MADE AND THSE PRESENT CAN TESTIFY THAT NO STIPULATIONS WERE MADE AND THE OFFER WAS MINUTED
What is the value of the goods?
ABOUT 2K HE THINKS
How much use does the charity make of them? Are they vital?
NONONE
What evidence has the charity got that the goods were donated without any stipulations?
NONE ,EXCEPT THE DONOR WAS AT THE MEETING WHEN THE OFFER WAS MADE AND THSE PRESENT CAN TESTIFY THAT NO STIPULATIONS WERE MADE AND THE OFFER WAS MINUTED
What is the value of the goods?
ABOUT 2K HE THINKS
How much use does the charity make of them? Are they vital?
bobthe rallyfan
I will ask him
EricBob
I have a reply. nothing in the accounts but only in minutes
..I think that under the commissions rules assets can only be disposed of to assist that charity or another. Would i be correct in saying that if they wanted t they can tell them to go and whistle, and if they insist, under threat perceived or otherwise of taking legal action to recover them should the demands not be met, they would be on a loser
If the donors relatives do decide to go the legal route and win, could it set a precedent that all donations to charities be considered fair game to relatives should they wish to get back the money earlier given?
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back? or does money and goods donated have different definitions
I think i shall tell him to spend a few bob on legal advice following your answers , to me it looks like the have the legal high ground on this
Thanks for all your assistance and thoughts.
I have a reply. nothing in the accounts but only in minutes
..I think that under the commissions rules assets can only be disposed of to assist that charity or another. Would i be correct in saying that if they wanted t they can tell them to go and whistle, and if they insist, under threat perceived or otherwise of taking legal action to recover them should the demands not be met, they would be on a loser
If the donors relatives do decide to go the legal route and win, could it set a precedent that all donations to charities be considered fair game to relatives should they wish to get back the money earlier given?
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back? or does money and goods donated have different definitions
I think i shall tell him to spend a few bob on legal advice following your answers , to me it looks like the have the legal high ground on this
Thanks for all your assistance and thoughts.
Eric/ Bob
I have a reply. nothing in the accounts but only in minutes
..I think that under the commissions rules assets can only be disposed of to assist that charity or another. Would i be correct in saying that if they wanted t they can tell them to go and whistle, and if they insist, under threat perceived or otherwise of taking legal action to recover them should the demands not be met, they would be on a loser
If the donors relatives do decide to go the legal route and win, could it set a precedent that all donations to charities be considered fair game to relatives should they wish to get back the money earlier given?
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back? or does money and goods donated have different definitions
I think i shall tell him to spend a few bob on legal advice following your answers , to me it looks like the have the legal high ground on this
Thanks for all your assistance and thoughts.
I have a reply. nothing in the accounts but only in minutes
..I think that under the commissions rules assets can only be disposed of to assist that charity or another. Would i be correct in saying that if they wanted t they can tell them to go and whistle, and if they insist, under threat perceived or otherwise of taking legal action to recover them should the demands not be met, they would be on a loser
If the donors relatives do decide to go the legal route and win, could it set a precedent that all donations to charities be considered fair game to relatives should they wish to get back the money earlier given?
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back? or does money and goods donated have different definitions
I think i shall tell him to spend a few bob on legal advice following your answers , to me it looks like the have the legal high ground on this
Thanks for all your assistance and thoughts.
silverfoxcc said:
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back?
Precisely. In my books a gift is a gift, job done.How hard do you think the person will fight to get £2K back? Solicitors aren't cheap, and if there's no evidence to support her claim I can't see she can win. You might reply something along the lines of 'Wow we didn't know that; please supply evidence of claim so we can look into it for you.'
I know nothing about laws pertaining to charities biut my instinct is to stand firm.
Or sell it next week and say 'Tough!'
silverfoxcc said:
but playing devils advocate did say that if they did return them in order not ti 'rock the boat'...
You're not rocking the boat, she is. You would be appeasing.Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 10th June 21:04
silverfoxcc said:
Eric/ Bob
I have a reply. nothing in the accounts but only in minutes
..I think that under the commissions rules assets can only be disposed of to assist that charity or another. Would i be correct in saying that if they wanted t they can tell them to go and whistle, and if they insist, under threat perceived or otherwise of taking legal action to recover them should the demands not be met, they would be on a loser
If the donors relatives do decide to go the legal route and win, could it set a precedent that all donations to charities be considered fair game to relatives should they wish to get back the money earlier given?
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back? or does money and goods donated have different definitions
I think i shall tell him to spend a few bob on legal advice following your answers , to me it looks like the have the legal high ground on this
Thanks for all your assistance and thoughts.
From an accounting viewpoint (my background) the that fact that the ‘donation’ has not been clearly identified as part of a restricted fund in the accounts reinforces the view that the donation was freely given and was apparently minuted as such. It would also be common practice for a donor to request a report on how restricted funds have been spent, something that does not seem to have been done either. That also reinforces the view that it was a pure donation, to be used as the Trustees see fit for the furtherance of the charities mission. I have a reply. nothing in the accounts but only in minutes
..I think that under the commissions rules assets can only be disposed of to assist that charity or another. Would i be correct in saying that if they wanted t they can tell them to go and whistle, and if they insist, under threat perceived or otherwise of taking legal action to recover them should the demands not be met, they would be on a loser
If the donors relatives do decide to go the legal route and win, could it set a precedent that all donations to charities be considered fair game to relatives should they wish to get back the money earlier given?
Oh My mum gave the Cats home 1m pounds a few years ago.. we can get that back? or does money and goods donated have different definitions
I think i shall tell him to spend a few bob on legal advice following your answers , to me it looks like the have the legal high ground on this
Thanks for all your assistance and thoughts.
Best to get proper legal advice as ever…..Good luck
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