Discussion
I've been with current employer for nearly 10 years doing the same role and I'm getting at the end of my tether.
Im quite frankly fed up but in a hole, I'm doing a job that pays well but isn't taxing, however it frustrates me when I find people around me constantly getting better opportunities, assignments, roles.
Over the last 2 years I've had the following going on;
-I recently applied for a new internal role, the hiring manager (head of our department) said thanks but no thanks, feedback was I didn't demonstrate good enough answers to scenario based questions. The feedback was I wasn't detailed enough....(would they had said I was too detailed if I was?). Bottom line with this role is it was created for someone at another company we've acquired so a redundancy situation. What sort of company buys someone then doesn't give the acquiring company opportunity to grow?
-We have a team "lead" in the team who just bullies himself around, last year he has promoted other members of the team into roles that are deemed lead roles (without advertised roles), these leads now exhibit the same behaviour
-My reporting manager (not the lead) doesn't turn upto regular catch ups (HR demand we do)
-No yearly targets/objectives (got told I should do these myself)
It just feels on a personal level very demoralising at the moment.
The main thing I should do is upticks and have applied for roles outside but over the last few years I've had nothing progress...I used to ooze confidence in the workplace, I see a role I know I could do with my eyes closed...but it all ends up with a thanks but no thanks....so am I being too honest?
Im quite frankly fed up but in a hole, I'm doing a job that pays well but isn't taxing, however it frustrates me when I find people around me constantly getting better opportunities, assignments, roles.
Over the last 2 years I've had the following going on;
-I recently applied for a new internal role, the hiring manager (head of our department) said thanks but no thanks, feedback was I didn't demonstrate good enough answers to scenario based questions. The feedback was I wasn't detailed enough....(would they had said I was too detailed if I was?). Bottom line with this role is it was created for someone at another company we've acquired so a redundancy situation. What sort of company buys someone then doesn't give the acquiring company opportunity to grow?
-We have a team "lead" in the team who just bullies himself around, last year he has promoted other members of the team into roles that are deemed lead roles (without advertised roles), these leads now exhibit the same behaviour
-My reporting manager (not the lead) doesn't turn upto regular catch ups (HR demand we do)
-No yearly targets/objectives (got told I should do these myself)
It just feels on a personal level very demoralising at the moment.
The main thing I should do is upticks and have applied for roles outside but over the last few years I've had nothing progress...I used to ooze confidence in the workplace, I see a role I know I could do with my eyes closed...but it all ends up with a thanks but no thanks....so am I being too honest?
Sounds like your current workplace environment isn't too great but it sounds quite typical of medium/large companies.
I do recommend you go elsewhere, if anything to gain new experiences as well as a fresh start.
How is the job hunting proceeding? Are you getting interviews and then not getting further or is it lots of applications but not getting anywhere? What sort of industry/work are you looking at? This may impact further advice.
I do recommend you go elsewhere, if anything to gain new experiences as well as a fresh start.
How is the job hunting proceeding? Are you getting interviews and then not getting further or is it lots of applications but not getting anywhere? What sort of industry/work are you looking at? This may impact further advice.
If I may be blunt. You make all these things sound like somebody else's fault...but there is only one common denominator.
You've been there long enough to understand what it takes to succeed in that company. If that appeals to you, then buck up and knuckle down; play the game and do what you need to do.
If you don't like the direction that the company is going, and you don't feel that you fit, then the answer is equally obvious.
Basically the answer to any question like this is to s
t or get off the pot.
You've been there long enough to understand what it takes to succeed in that company. If that appeals to you, then buck up and knuckle down; play the game and do what you need to do.
If you don't like the direction that the company is going, and you don't feel that you fit, then the answer is equally obvious.
Basically the answer to any question like this is to s
t or get off the pot.deckster said:
If I may be blunt. You make all these things sound like somebody else's fault...but there is only one common denominator.
You've been there long enough to understand what it takes to succeed in that company. If that appeals to you, then buck up and knuckle down; play the game and do what you need to do.
If you don't like the direction that the company is going, and you don't feel that you fit, then the answer is equally obvious.
Basically the answer to any question like this is to st or get off the pot.
I think you may have a point there, but the part where the OP states the "... job pays well but isn't taxing ..." might be getting in the way a bit!You've been there long enough to understand what it takes to succeed in that company. If that appeals to you, then buck up and knuckle down; play the game and do what you need to do.
If you don't like the direction that the company is going, and you don't feel that you fit, then the answer is equally obvious.
Basically the answer to any question like this is to s
t or get off the pot.I was the same in my first job - didn't get on with my boss, who was a bully and I just got thoroughly fed up with the place. But I was competent in the job and the money was good - better than anything else that was around locally, so I stuck with it longer than I should have.
In the end, there was an opportunity to take voluntary redundancy, so I did - and then went back 9 months later as a contractor, working for a different boss. After about 18 months, I ended up working for the original boss again, so Ieft and ended up working in a different industry, which I hated! It was here that I got the advice to either play the game working there, or go and find something else to do - so I left and haven't looked back since!
Looking back on the original situation now, I wish I had left much earlier and hadn't put up with such a crappy situation for so long!
Hi,
I'm fully aware this is in my hands to deal with.
I find though there so much toxicity is around me it's not worth playing the game, I see life differently now to some of the selfish people I work with.
My challenge is finding outside opportunities (I'm in IT), maybe I'm just hitting the same barriers when going for roles in similar organisations.
Years ago I was cheaper, more easier to push around and not wise to what happens in evil corporates, maybe I need to change to a different organisation size, which becomes an issue as money isn't the same and we all get used to those nice things in life don't we
I want change though, which is hurting my mental state most, I like change/new things to do, except all I'm doing is being thrown the work nobody wants.
I'm fully aware this is in my hands to deal with.
I find though there so much toxicity is around me it's not worth playing the game, I see life differently now to some of the selfish people I work with.
My challenge is finding outside opportunities (I'm in IT), maybe I'm just hitting the same barriers when going for roles in similar organisations.
Years ago I was cheaper, more easier to push around and not wise to what happens in evil corporates, maybe I need to change to a different organisation size, which becomes an issue as money isn't the same and we all get used to those nice things in life don't we
I want change though, which is hurting my mental state most, I like change/new things to do, except all I'm doing is being thrown the work nobody wants.
Depending on what area of IT you're talking about you may want to consider small companies and startups. Salaries should be comparable with larger companies or better but other side benefits such as pensions may not be as good.
I started my career in large multinational companies and at one company I stayed so long I essentially became institutionalised and couldn't move on easily even when I wanted to. Since then I've moved around a bit with smaller companies improving my skills each time. With a small company you can certainly stand out a lot more if you can get things done.
ATB btw. Polish up your CV and get it out to recruiters. Also get yourself a LinkedIn profile and get that polished up.
I started my career in large multinational companies and at one company I stayed so long I essentially became institutionalised and couldn't move on easily even when I wanted to. Since then I've moved around a bit with smaller companies improving my skills each time. With a small company you can certainly stand out a lot more if you can get things done.
ATB btw. Polish up your CV and get it out to recruiters. Also get yourself a LinkedIn profile and get that polished up.
Edited by Aunty Pasty on Thursday 10th June 16:32
Aunty Pasty said:
Depending on what area of IT you're talking about you may want to consider small companies and startups. Salaries should be comparable with larger companies or better but other side benefits such as pensions may not be as good.
I started my career in large multinational companies and at one company I stayed so long I essentially became institutionalised and couldn't move on easily even when I wanted to. Since then I've moved around a bit with smaller companies improving my skills each time. With a small company you can certainly stand out a lot more if you can get things done.
ATB btw. Polish up your CV and get it out to recruiters. Also get yourself a LinkedIn profile and get that polished up.
Institutionalised would be fine if I was developing internally.I started my career in large multinational companies and at one company I stayed so long I essentially became institutionalised and couldn't move on easily even when I wanted to. Since then I've moved around a bit with smaller companies improving my skills each time. With a small company you can certainly stand out a lot more if you can get things done.
ATB btw. Polish up your CV and get it out to recruiters. Also get yourself a LinkedIn profile and get that polished up.
Edited by Aunty Pasty on Thursday 10th June 16:32
Find out today boss is going down to 3 days a week so doesn't think he wants to manage me so will be discussing with the HoD me changing manager.
Welcome to hell
From how you have described your situation, I’d tend to agree with Deckster thoughts, based on what you have written. I think most people fall into one of two camps, there are people who ‘get it’ and people who ‘don’t’. This tends to be a makeup of the type of personality they have, but also the culture in which they are employed and whether that fits in with their own personality.
The people who get it are the ones who are motivated, driven and determined to succeed. It doesn’t matter if they are a senior or a junior grade. They might need coaching or training, plenty of feedback, or they might need very little – but they just naturally will excel at what they do. These aren’t necessarily people who want to climb the career ladder, they can might be happy in their role, but they are great at what they do and have the type of attitude that could take them further and/or into different roles, if they ever wanted to.
The ones who don’t ‘get it’ are the ones who are difficult to manage and simply can’t see the difference between what/how they do things, and that of their colleagues. Their lack of progress is usually the managers fault, or another colleague’s fault, or the fact that someone else stopped something from happening, or they haven’t had enough training, etc. It is never their fault and they cannot be convinced otherwise. The company or their current role is probably not the right fit for them and eventually leave for somewhere else, where the role and culture fit their personality better, but on occasion a fire gets lit under them from somewhere and they really turn things around.
But all that said, there are bad managers out there too, and they can be extremely toxic for entire teams, which is not a pleasant place to be, and you only have two choices; either make the best out of the situation, or change roles.
Some other general feedback, which I hope might be useful to help with whichever way you go…
Firstly… YOU have to make it happen. YOU have to become the guy that everyone thinks of, as the guy who can get the job done, when a new opportunity comes around. You can’t sit there and wait for something; it is unlikely to happen whilst ever that guy is working alongside you. Be that guy.
You say you didn’t get a role and the feedback was because your answers weren’t detailed enough. Regardless of whether the position was a slam-dunk for someone else, take that feedback on the chin and run with it. How can you make your answers better? On reflection, was that feedback pretty accurate? Was that because you didn’t really have any quality answers (because, you say you are "going stale")? If so, how do you fix that? Can you ask your boss for more challenging work? Tell him you want to move on and up in your career – you need his help. Loads of material out there about ‘managing your manager’, have a look at this – if you can do this well, you become one of those who ‘get it’. Or was the feedback because you hadn’t really prepared for the interview and just sauntered in hoping for the best? This is really noticeable to experienced hiring managers. My guess is that even if that role was a tailor fit for someone else, if you had absolutely aced the interview, they would have given you a different rejection reason (e.g. “excellent interview, but the other candidate had just a little more experience so we went with them”).
No targets/objectives? Yes – you do need to go and get them yourself. Challenge yourself. What does your team/division/organisation need to do to meet its overall goals? If you don’t know – find out. Then prepare your own targets – make them stretching, interesting, come up with ideas that will improve your team (“sack the bosses” is the wrong answer, from people who probably don’t ‘get it’). Feed your ideas back to the boss as your targets, ask if they are suitable. Maybe you need his help or guidance to achieve them if he agrees? He’ll feel good about that I’m sure (managing your manager again).
Team leads and managers who bully people about… Why don’t YOU become the manager? Make it happen! And don’t be that guy when you do.
None of it happens overnight, but you have to put the building blocks in place and play the game. All of that experience then gives you floods of interview examples when you are asked questions around role-fit, experience in handling situations and motivation.
Can’t be arsed with any of that? Then its probably not the right organisational fit for you. In that case, if you want to progress, sometimes you have to take a step back (salary/grade) in order to get to a job that you love, from which you’ll naturally progress and be truly motivated with the great people around you that you want to work alongside and/or lead.
But don’t spend the next 20 years in a job you hate, just because it pays you a bit more. You are only here once and you are in the office for a lot of that time!
Good luck!
The people who get it are the ones who are motivated, driven and determined to succeed. It doesn’t matter if they are a senior or a junior grade. They might need coaching or training, plenty of feedback, or they might need very little – but they just naturally will excel at what they do. These aren’t necessarily people who want to climb the career ladder, they can might be happy in their role, but they are great at what they do and have the type of attitude that could take them further and/or into different roles, if they ever wanted to.
The ones who don’t ‘get it’ are the ones who are difficult to manage and simply can’t see the difference between what/how they do things, and that of their colleagues. Their lack of progress is usually the managers fault, or another colleague’s fault, or the fact that someone else stopped something from happening, or they haven’t had enough training, etc. It is never their fault and they cannot be convinced otherwise. The company or their current role is probably not the right fit for them and eventually leave for somewhere else, where the role and culture fit their personality better, but on occasion a fire gets lit under them from somewhere and they really turn things around.
But all that said, there are bad managers out there too, and they can be extremely toxic for entire teams, which is not a pleasant place to be, and you only have two choices; either make the best out of the situation, or change roles.
Some other general feedback, which I hope might be useful to help with whichever way you go…
Firstly… YOU have to make it happen. YOU have to become the guy that everyone thinks of, as the guy who can get the job done, when a new opportunity comes around. You can’t sit there and wait for something; it is unlikely to happen whilst ever that guy is working alongside you. Be that guy.
You say you didn’t get a role and the feedback was because your answers weren’t detailed enough. Regardless of whether the position was a slam-dunk for someone else, take that feedback on the chin and run with it. How can you make your answers better? On reflection, was that feedback pretty accurate? Was that because you didn’t really have any quality answers (because, you say you are "going stale")? If so, how do you fix that? Can you ask your boss for more challenging work? Tell him you want to move on and up in your career – you need his help. Loads of material out there about ‘managing your manager’, have a look at this – if you can do this well, you become one of those who ‘get it’. Or was the feedback because you hadn’t really prepared for the interview and just sauntered in hoping for the best? This is really noticeable to experienced hiring managers. My guess is that even if that role was a tailor fit for someone else, if you had absolutely aced the interview, they would have given you a different rejection reason (e.g. “excellent interview, but the other candidate had just a little more experience so we went with them”).
No targets/objectives? Yes – you do need to go and get them yourself. Challenge yourself. What does your team/division/organisation need to do to meet its overall goals? If you don’t know – find out. Then prepare your own targets – make them stretching, interesting, come up with ideas that will improve your team (“sack the bosses” is the wrong answer, from people who probably don’t ‘get it’). Feed your ideas back to the boss as your targets, ask if they are suitable. Maybe you need his help or guidance to achieve them if he agrees? He’ll feel good about that I’m sure (managing your manager again).
Team leads and managers who bully people about… Why don’t YOU become the manager? Make it happen! And don’t be that guy when you do.
None of it happens overnight, but you have to put the building blocks in place and play the game. All of that experience then gives you floods of interview examples when you are asked questions around role-fit, experience in handling situations and motivation.
Can’t be arsed with any of that? Then its probably not the right organisational fit for you. In that case, if you want to progress, sometimes you have to take a step back (salary/grade) in order to get to a job that you love, from which you’ll naturally progress and be truly motivated with the great people around you that you want to work alongside and/or lead.
But don’t spend the next 20 years in a job you hate, just because it pays you a bit more. You are only here once and you are in the office for a lot of that time!
Good luck!
Cloudy147 said:
From how you have described your situation, I’d tend to agree with Deckster thoughts, based on what you have written. I think most people fall into one of two camps, there are people who ‘get it’ and people who ‘don’t’. This tends to be a makeup of the type of personality they have, but also the culture in which they are employed and whether that fits in with their own personality.
The people who get it are the ones who are motivated, driven and determined to succeed. It doesn’t matter if they are a senior or a junior grade. They might need coaching or training, plenty of feedback, or they might need very little – but they just naturally will excel at what they do. These aren’t necessarily people who want to climb the career ladder, they can might be happy in their role, but they are great at what they do and have the type of attitude that could take them further and/or into different roles, if they ever wanted to.
The ones who don’t ‘get it’ are the ones who are difficult to manage and simply can’t see the difference between what/how they do things, and that of their colleagues. Their lack of progress is usually the managers fault, or another colleague’s fault, or the fact that someone else stopped something from happening, or they haven’t had enough training, etc. It is never their fault and they cannot be convinced otherwise. The company or their current role is probably not the right fit for them and eventually leave for somewhere else, where the role and culture fit their personality better, but on occasion a fire gets lit under them from somewhere and they really turn things around.
But all that said, there are bad managers out there too, and they can be extremely toxic for entire teams, which is not a pleasant place to be, and you only have two choices; either make the best out of the situation, or change roles.
Some other general feedback, which I hope might be useful to help with whichever way you go…
Firstly… YOU have to make it happen. YOU have to become the guy that everyone thinks of, as the guy who can get the job done, when a new opportunity comes around. You can’t sit there and wait for something; it is unlikely to happen whilst ever that guy is working alongside you. Be that guy.
You say you didn’t get a role and the feedback was because your answers weren’t detailed enough. Regardless of whether the position was a slam-dunk for someone else, take that feedback on the chin and run with it. How can you make your answers better? On reflection, was that feedback pretty accurate? Was that because you didn’t really have any quality answers (because, you say you are "going stale")? If so, how do you fix that? Can you ask your boss for more challenging work? Tell him you want to move on and up in your career – you need his help. Loads of material out there about ‘managing your manager’, have a look at this – if you can do this well, you become one of those who ‘get it’. Or was the feedback because you hadn’t really prepared for the interview and just sauntered in hoping for the best? This is really noticeable to experienced hiring managers. My guess is that even if that role was a tailor fit for someone else, if you had absolutely aced the interview, they would have given you a different rejection reason (e.g. “excellent interview, but the other candidate had just a little more experience so we went with them”).
No targets/objectives? Yes – you do need to go and get them yourself. Challenge yourself. What does your team/division/organisation need to do to meet its overall goals? If you don’t know – find out. Then prepare your own targets – make them stretching, interesting, come up with ideas that will improve your team (“sack the bosses” is the wrong answer, from people who probably don’t ‘get it’). Feed your ideas back to the boss as your targets, ask if they are suitable. Maybe you need his help or guidance to achieve them if he agrees? He’ll feel good about that I’m sure (managing your manager again).
Team leads and managers who bully people about… Why don’t YOU become the manager? Make it happen! And don’t be that guy when you do.
None of it happens overnight, but you have to put the building blocks in place and play the game. All of that experience then gives you floods of interview examples when you are asked questions around role-fit, experience in handling situations and motivation.
Can’t be arsed with any of that? Then its probably not the right organisational fit for you. In that case, if you want to progress, sometimes you have to take a step back (salary/grade) in order to get to a job that you love, from which you’ll naturally progress and be truly motivated with the great people around you that you want to work alongside and/or lead.
But don’t spend the next 20 years in a job you hate, just because it pays you a bit more. You are only here once and you are in the office for a lot of that time!
Good luck!
Some good snippets in here, I used to read a lot of self help books with this stuff in. The people who get it are the ones who are motivated, driven and determined to succeed. It doesn’t matter if they are a senior or a junior grade. They might need coaching or training, plenty of feedback, or they might need very little – but they just naturally will excel at what they do. These aren’t necessarily people who want to climb the career ladder, they can might be happy in their role, but they are great at what they do and have the type of attitude that could take them further and/or into different roles, if they ever wanted to.
The ones who don’t ‘get it’ are the ones who are difficult to manage and simply can’t see the difference between what/how they do things, and that of their colleagues. Their lack of progress is usually the managers fault, or another colleague’s fault, or the fact that someone else stopped something from happening, or they haven’t had enough training, etc. It is never their fault and they cannot be convinced otherwise. The company or their current role is probably not the right fit for them and eventually leave for somewhere else, where the role and culture fit their personality better, but on occasion a fire gets lit under them from somewhere and they really turn things around.
But all that said, there are bad managers out there too, and they can be extremely toxic for entire teams, which is not a pleasant place to be, and you only have two choices; either make the best out of the situation, or change roles.
Some other general feedback, which I hope might be useful to help with whichever way you go…
Firstly… YOU have to make it happen. YOU have to become the guy that everyone thinks of, as the guy who can get the job done, when a new opportunity comes around. You can’t sit there and wait for something; it is unlikely to happen whilst ever that guy is working alongside you. Be that guy.
You say you didn’t get a role and the feedback was because your answers weren’t detailed enough. Regardless of whether the position was a slam-dunk for someone else, take that feedback on the chin and run with it. How can you make your answers better? On reflection, was that feedback pretty accurate? Was that because you didn’t really have any quality answers (because, you say you are "going stale")? If so, how do you fix that? Can you ask your boss for more challenging work? Tell him you want to move on and up in your career – you need his help. Loads of material out there about ‘managing your manager’, have a look at this – if you can do this well, you become one of those who ‘get it’. Or was the feedback because you hadn’t really prepared for the interview and just sauntered in hoping for the best? This is really noticeable to experienced hiring managers. My guess is that even if that role was a tailor fit for someone else, if you had absolutely aced the interview, they would have given you a different rejection reason (e.g. “excellent interview, but the other candidate had just a little more experience so we went with them”).
No targets/objectives? Yes – you do need to go and get them yourself. Challenge yourself. What does your team/division/organisation need to do to meet its overall goals? If you don’t know – find out. Then prepare your own targets – make them stretching, interesting, come up with ideas that will improve your team (“sack the bosses” is the wrong answer, from people who probably don’t ‘get it’). Feed your ideas back to the boss as your targets, ask if they are suitable. Maybe you need his help or guidance to achieve them if he agrees? He’ll feel good about that I’m sure (managing your manager again).
Team leads and managers who bully people about… Why don’t YOU become the manager? Make it happen! And don’t be that guy when you do.
None of it happens overnight, but you have to put the building blocks in place and play the game. All of that experience then gives you floods of interview examples when you are asked questions around role-fit, experience in handling situations and motivation.
Can’t be arsed with any of that? Then its probably not the right organisational fit for you. In that case, if you want to progress, sometimes you have to take a step back (salary/grade) in order to get to a job that you love, from which you’ll naturally progress and be truly motivated with the great people around you that you want to work alongside and/or lead.
But don’t spend the next 20 years in a job you hate, just because it pays you a bit more. You are only here once and you are in the office for a lot of that time!
Good luck!
Don't think I don't deliver my job well here, I've been lots of incidents with PM's trying to sht on me from great platforms, yet the reality is they were not doing what they was supposed to.
When I interviewed for my current job we had a manager I liked, he was brilliant, wasn't pushy, also quite introverted like I am, but unfortunately we had new upper management come in wanting to change the roles/portfolio allocations for resource and decided to move on doing something else. He played the game a bit to find new roles internally.
We now have just a vulture left who picked the bones managing us.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff